JoelP
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| posted on 4/10/10 at 07:54 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Strontium Dog
NOT for people who fancy 4 kids because they like having them and no worries because the state will pick up the bill!
Seriously though, you think £13 a week covers having a child? You wouldnt get the nappies for that, nevermind the food and clothes. Its the overall
benefit system that makes single teen motherhood an option, not child benefit alone.
I do think though that child benefit should only be for the first and maybe second child, and only once you have passed the parenting license.
I believe that child benefit stems from the belief that having a child is a human right, and that having no money shouldnt make you miss out on the
best experience a human can have (and i do mean children, not sex!). I dont think that you need the extra £20 a week if you earn 44k, and certainly
not if you both get it. Thats just outrageous in fact, to earn 80k a year and still accept handouts. If you have that kind of income you should be
giving to local charities, not taking.
The overall cap on benefits is a good move too.
Beware! Bourettes is binfectious.
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Strontium Dog
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| posted on 4/10/10 at 09:11 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
quote:
Originally posted by Strontium Dog
quote:
quote:
Originally posted by Strontium Dog
We live in a grossly overpopulated country. Why would we want to do anything except discourage people from having more kids? (Unexpected twins etc.
aside of course  ).
Because then you end up with an ageing population without enough income tax to pay for care of the elderly. Or are you proposing we cull the elderly
off to lessen the burden?
The country is not over populated but then again I live in Scotland! 
Sermon over, I hope you enjoyed it...
[Edited on 4/10/2010 by craig1410]
Well that's a load of crap isn't it. The pension fund has already gone and it looks like I'll be working till I can't weald a
spanner any more. Oh yes, and I already look after an elderly relative so that she does not face the horror that is an old peoples home. We should
look after our own instead of shoving them into homes, out of sight and mind, and then the state could take up the slack where needed!
And if you think 60.000,000 in a country this size isn't overpopulated you need to pull the wool down!
But maybe your right and we should all have lots more children and bring them up on state handouts! That way there'll be loads of money to
support me in my retirement! Oh wait, that's not how it works is it, I'll just have to stump up more cash to raise your kids as well as my
own! Doh!
EDIT
The benefit system should be there for those that can't get by without it and then it should be enough to make life more than an existence for
those that need it. NOT for people who fancy 4 kids because they like having them and no worries because the state will pick up the bill!
[Edited on 4/10/10 by Strontium Dog]
[Edited on 4/10/10 by Strontium Dog]
I think you've taken something the wrong way here, the last thing I am advocating is that we all have lots of kids and sponge off the state! I
think you need to calm down and read my post again. What I am saying is that kids, brought up in stable families and well educated, will prove to be a
sound investment because they will be the workers and entrepreneurs of the future. This is what (normally) gives our economy growth and is reflected
in the GDP per capita I mentioned earlier. Look at it another way, we all work for UK PLC.
Yes, we should look after our own but some people don't have anyone to directly look after them which is where the welfare state (hopefully)
steps in to provide carers and winter fuel allowance and other benefits to the vulnerable. Ironically it is often those who chose not to have kids or
couldn't have kids that benefit most from this safety net. I should also point out that not all old people's homes are
"horrors".
As for overpopulation, my country (Scotland) has a population density 6 times lower than England and most of the English population lives in the south
east. The obvious solution is to move north and west. By the way, if you read my earlier post, I was talking about keeping the population static, not
increasing or decreasing.
As for you stumping up cash to support my kids, I doubt that will be necessary due to the amount of tax that my wife and I pay each month and the
future tax which our kids are likely to be paying to keep you and I in our old age. Have a look at this little article by the BBC if you don't
believe me: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8417205.stm
It shows that the top 50% of earners pay 88.4% of all income tax collected and the bottom 50% of earners only pay 11.6% of all income tax.
Anyway, you've got me completely wrong if you think I am encouraging spongers although I do think that people should be encouraged to work for a
few more years past 65 if they can as it is better for both the finances and the health of those concerned. Too many people hit pension age, retire
and then just wither away. Better to keep working in some sort of capacity.
All IMHO of course.
Craig.
I don't think I took anything the wrong way at all. It was you that accused me of wanting to cull the elderly which is a crock to say the least.
Read my post. And as to your kids paying for me in my old age, well we'll see won't we. I certainly don't expect to ever be able to
stop working even if your kids are highly successful and are lucky enough to earn lots of money. This country, and I include Scotland in that even if
you don't like it, is full of fatherless children with no morals or ethics or desire to work largely due to the way a single mother can get
money, flat and everything else she needs just by having kids.
As it goes, I could use a little help myself but don't get much. I full time care for someone and then I have a daughter with a congenital heart
condition too. She is nearly 10 and has had 2 open heart surgeries so far and more to come. I don't get any help at all. I get a carers
allowance, about £90 a week and I work as much as I can to fill in the big hole this leaves but can only do so much. If I was a single mother
I'd get lots of help, I wonder why we have the highest teen pregnancy rates in Europe?!
I think it is fair to say that if you and your wife are paying enough tax to cover the education of your children after a fair amount is deducted for
NHS, policing etc. then you are truly blessed with good fortune. I may have to move to Scotland, got any jobs going?
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nitram38
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| posted on 4/10/10 at 09:21 PM |
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All I know is we pay more and more tax and get less and less back.
MP's worked their expenses "within the rules" yet the hard up are gonna get shafted again.
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chrisxr2
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| posted on 4/10/10 at 09:21 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Benzine
Seems weird that the 88k income gets full child benefit. IMO they shouldn't get child benefit, nor should 44k earners. 44k is a
LOT of money
Maybe so but i work bloody hard for my money, why should all my taxes pay for single mums to be on a guaranteed 15 grand a year, why should i pay for
child tax credits for people that cant be bothered to earn enough to get by on.???
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SteveWalker
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| posted on 4/10/10 at 09:44 PM |
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It is unfair that a couple earning 43,000 each will still get it, but a couple on one salary of 45,000 will not. If they wanted to make it fair, while
not having a heavy burden of means testing, they could have simply said anyone on higher rate tax would lose the child benefit, unless they filled in
a means test form. This would mean that standard rate taxpayers would not have to fill in forms, the extremely well off would not have to as they
wouldn't be entitled anyway and only the smaller number in the middle would need to do so.
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 4/10/10 at 09:58 PM |
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Lets start a revolution and overthrow the government? - Or is that a hanging offence?
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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craig1410
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| posted on 4/10/10 at 10:04 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Strontium Dog
I don't think I took anything the wrong way at all. It was you that accused me of wanting to cull the elderly which is a crock to say the least.
Read my post. And as to your kids paying for me in my old age, well we'll see won't we. I certainly don't expect to ever be able to
stop working even if your kids are highly successful and are lucky enough to earn lots of money. This country, and I include Scotland in that even if
you don't like it, is full of fatherless children with no morals or ethics or desire to work largely due to the way a single mother can get
money, flat and everything else she needs just by having kids.
As it goes, I could use a little help myself but don't get much. I full time care for someone and then I have a daughter with a congenital heart
condition too. She is nearly 10 and has had 2 open heart surgeries so far and more to come. I don't get any help at all. I get a carers
allowance, about £90 a week and I work as much as I can to fill in the big hole this leaves but can only do so much. If I was a single mother
I'd get lots of help, I wonder why we have the highest teen pregnancy rates in Europe?!
I think it is fair to say that if you and your wife are paying enough tax to cover the education of your children after a fair amount is deducted for
NHS, policing etc. then you are truly blessed with good fortune. I may have to move to Scotland, got any jobs going?
Flipping 'ell, calm down before you spontaneously combust or something... 
1. I was kidding about the cull the elderly thing, I didn't think I had to spell that out.
2. Whether my kids pay for your old age or not matters not, I was only making a point that "our" collective children will in time pay the
taxes to keep things going for the older generation.
3. Scotland is a separate country but has many of the same issues as England I agree. It also has some good points and bad points compared to England
but it is certainly not overpopulated which was my main point.
4. Sorry to hear about your difficulties, we have had a few of our own along the way but I'm not going to go into that now. I certainly wish
your daughter every good fortune with her treatment and I hope you do get some help. It sounds like you need & deserve it. My Mum looked after an
elderly neighbour for many years (not even a relative) after his own son virtually abandoned him. It took a long time to earn his trust and get him to
accept help as he was a very proud old man. Suffice to say his final years were a marked improvement in terms of quality of life. I used to go and
talk to him any time I had a school project as he knew the local area very well and gave me great material for it. He was always chuffed when I got
good marks as a result of his help.
5. I pay around £800pm of tax and my wife pays something like £500pm. This is only the tip of the iceberg in terms of overall tax though as you will
be aware (eg. VAT, fuel duty, inheritance, stamp duty etc). I'm pretty confident we pay our way and a bit more besides. I'm also 100%
confident that our earnings would not allow us to survive in the south east unless our earnings were substantially higher.
6. Not sure where exactly you live just now but Scotland is not a bad place to live by any means and you would be very welcome to come. My wife and I
were recently on a weekend break up at Aviemore and the scenery is truly lovely. Once the kids are off on their own we will seriously consider moving
up there to live. I have mild asthma and I noticed that my symptoms were completely non-existent while breathing that clean air. Just don't get
me started on diesel cars...
Anyway, I still think you have taken my earlier comments the wrong way but I can perhaps see where you are coming from at the same time. I really hope
that you get some support soon - don't give up looking and asking for it.
All the best,
Craig.
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Ninehigh
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| posted on 4/10/10 at 10:10 PM |
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Ok you don't want to pay for my kids I don't want to pay for your broken leg, or street lights, or the copper to turn up after the pikeys
have been through your garage.
Seriously we all pay for the things whether it's choice or not. I don't choose for you to get cancer...
We don't even want CB, or tax credit. Despite what our local MP thinks (who thinks it's great we get CB and TC) I want to be earning
enough to not need, or even be entitled to anything. I want to be earning 44k a year, screw it 44k a month!
As it stands I have no idea how much we actually get from the government to help pay for these "children" (they're both taller than
me) but no doubt they eat that.
No we shouldn't have these benefits, we should have benefits to help us get off them as if they vanished we'd be b**gered
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