Mezzz
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| posted on 4/5/06 at 07:59 PM |
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Right im going to change the name of this thread as there is a lot of good information in it. so that it is searchable
What should I call it
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bike_power
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| posted on 4/5/06 at 08:37 PM |
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Lots of forum flab on this thread ! Bit more lively than it was last time I looked in ! 
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cossey
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| posted on 4/5/06 at 09:23 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by G.Man
cossey, did you actually read the rest of the thread????
yep i did and it doesnt make sense with how a slipper clutch works, they have a secondary spring that can control how much torque before they slip,
for road use you can bump this up so you get some engine braking but it wont allow the engine to be dragged up enough to do damage. the primary spring
works the same a normal clutch does. they arent a one way clutch unless you have a very low secondary spring rate which may be the case for racing but
isnt typical of all slipper clutches.
the first bit was in responce to tks and is for h pattern boxes
[Edited on 4/5/06 by cossey]
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G.Man
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| posted on 5/5/06 at 03:42 AM |
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I have to say I have never seen one with a seperate spring, all the ones I have used use ramps or ramps and balls to set up the clutch...
The angle of the ramp dictates how much and how fast the clutch slips or disengages...
Opinions are like backsides..
Everyone has one, nobody wants to hear it and only other peoples stink!
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wildchild
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| posted on 5/5/06 at 07:07 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by G.Man
Yes I have ridden a bike with a slipper clutch, They are not for road use....
And a racer would NEVER roll off the throttle mid corner anyway... the weight transfer would probably kill him..
It's not stopping the manufacturers fitting them to road bikes as the latest trendy selling point though is it?
Oh and I disagree with the second bit as an *absolute* statement, although i'll agree with it in general.
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cossey
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| posted on 5/5/06 at 07:51 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by G.Man
I have to say I have never seen one with a seperate spring, all the ones I have used use ramps or ramps and balls to set up the clutch...
The angle of the ramp dictates how much and how fast the clutch slips or disengages...
they have to have a secondary spring otherwise they wont return back fast enough, the spring plus the ramp angle determines how much torque they can
send back to the engine, if there was no spring then when the rider came back on the throttle there would be a lag before he got drive again.
Click me
that shows one in bits and how the second spring works (page 2)
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G.Man
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| posted on 5/5/06 at 09:46 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by cossey
quote:
Originally posted by G.Man
I have to say I have never seen one with a seperate spring, all the ones I have used use ramps or ramps and balls to set up the clutch...
The angle of the ramp dictates how much and how fast the clutch slips or disengages...
they have to have a secondary spring otherwise they wont return back fast enough, the spring plus the ramp angle determines how much torque they can
send back to the engine, if there was no spring then when the rider came back on the throttle there would be a lag before he got drive again.
Click me
that shows one in bits and how the second spring works (page 2)
No, thats usually where only the existing drive type dictates how you do the conversion...
Is a typical slipper clutch..
The load is applied as soon as you go back on the throttle by the direction of the load on the clutch...
wheel to engine load slackens clutch springs, engine to wheel load tensions them...
All a slipper does is simulate slack clutch springs, the slacker the spring, the less engine braking is applied...
A small amount of engine braking can be desireable in fast left right flicks so as to avoid using the brake when between bends, transfer more weight
onto front wheel, sit the bike up faster, and allow a faster turn into the second part of the complex..
As for lag, the lag would be less than a few degrees of engine rotation, as this is the max the clutch needs to move between full release and full
grab along the ramps...
The R1 clutch is slightly different to those I have seen and uses springs to adjust the slip rather than different ramp angles/heights it seems..
[Edited on 5/5/06 by G.Man]
Opinions are like backsides..
Everyone has one, nobody wants to hear it and only other peoples stink!
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G.Man
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| posted on 5/5/06 at 09:54 AM |
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PS Just like to add, that if you fit a slipper clutch, dont ever bother trying to push start your car, the back wheels will need to be doing about
50mph before the clutch will drag enough to spin the motor, tahts the reason why you see those guys with the external starters at the BSB etc... has
to get the back wheel to at least 30mph before it will start the bike...
Opinions are like backsides..
Everyone has one, nobody wants to hear it and only other peoples stink!
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wildchild
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| posted on 5/5/06 at 10:02 AM |
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so there is some 'engine braking' then, otherwise they'd never start!
not having a dig btw, i've learnt quite a bit from your posts in this topic.
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G.Man
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| posted on 5/5/06 at 10:06 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by wildchild
so there is some 'engine braking' then, otherwise they'd never start!
not having a dig btw, i've learnt quite a bit from your posts in this topic.
Yup there is, on some bikes there is so little tho, that they have to retain the onboard starter....
Opinions are like backsides..
Everyone has one, nobody wants to hear it and only other peoples stink!
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wildchild
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| posted on 5/5/06 at 10:22 AM |
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go out to the grid, stick the key in, push the starter button...
would have some good comedy value. although I seem to remember reading that one of the Kawasaki BSB teams had race bikes with ignition keys when the
ZX10R came out because they were so new they didn't have time to remove them.
just out of idle interest, who did you work for in BSB?
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G.Man
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| posted on 5/5/06 at 10:53 AM |
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Paul Young Racing
Opinions are like backsides..
Everyone has one, nobody wants to hear it and only other peoples stink!
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coozer
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| posted on 6/5/06 at 02:31 PM |
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Wow, what an argument!
Suzuki GSXR 1100 power for me, 5 gears in a box thats had more abuse on the drag strip than any other mamby pamby Japanese bike engine.
150bhp is no problem and should be easy to install. Only problem is early nineties bikes had oil cooled motors but the last ones where water
cooled.
Any comments on the oil cooled variety??
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 6/5/06 at 02:50 PM |
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They obviously been proven a solid and reliable engine in drag bikes etc, and I dont think there are any particular issues with sump design for oil
surge.
I guess the main problems with them are that the newest ones are still over 10 years old so will be getting a bit leggy, they are heavier than the
more modern engines that give equal or better power output, and also because they aren't a common BEC install, there will be less off the shelf
parts to buy so the rest of the install might cost a bit more than say a blade or R1, but overall probably not a bad choice at all.
cheers
Chris
[Edited on 6/5/06 by ChrisGamlin]
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Macca
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| posted on 6/5/06 at 07:03 PM |
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I hope to be corrected on this;
Why has nobody used the Honda X11 motor? Just like a Blackbird(injection) but minus 15bhp at the top
end.
Stomps all over the B'Bird in the midrange though which I thought would be ideal for a BEC.
Col
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 6/5/06 at 07:35 PM |
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I guess it might be because the 'bird doesnt have the best reputation for reliability in BEC circles, due to the sump design and oil surge
issues they often suffer with, and usually needing dry sumping on track. Also it might be worth checking the gearing is the same as the 'bird,
being a naked tourer it wont have such an achievable top speed so could have a lower ratio gearbox meaning its not as suitable for a BEC given the
limitation of diff ratios to use.
[Edited on 6/5/06 by ChrisGamlin]
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