Rorty
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| posted on 14/11/05 at 01:22 AM |
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As far as I can see, the Golf parts are the best solution and will lend themselves to both ends of the car.
If I get this front end sorted, then I'll revise my De Dion and IRS set-ups to include Golf rear stubs, hubs, discs and lightweight callipers.
This means VW pattern wheels (5-100 PCD and 32-38mm off-sets) can be used all round and there are plenty of OEM and aftermarket styles to choose
from.
Even though the Golf and Jetta go back as far as the seventies, I think it's prudent to aim for relatively recent 5-stud stuff which will include
the New Beetle and high-performance stuff from the VR6, so I've short-listed the following components:
- 1. Front CV/axle complete.
- 2. Front hub.
- 3. Front disc.
- 4. Rear stub axle.
- 5. Rear hub/bearing unit.
- 6. Rear disc.
- 7. Rear calliper.
It may even be a good idea to use the rear steer Golf steering rack too and make the wishbone mounts/chassis to suit so there's no need to mess
around with the rack length. I'd need to establish the rack length first before I can add it to the list.
Can anyone measure a MK3 or later rack for me please?
The front stub axles could have the CV cups milled down to reduce weight. It would be best to retain a small amount of the cup (just a parallel lump
in the centre) to enable the stub axle to be held with an adjustable wrench so the axle nut can be tightened.
VW have been very considerate and attached the pressed steel ABS rings with three small screws, so removing them is no big deal.
The Golf front callipers aren't bad at all, but I'll still make the front calliper bracket removable so people can mount whichever callipers
they want.
If there are no sound objections to this list, then I'll begin accumulating relevant dimensions of the parts.
To that end, if anyone can help out with measurements of any of the components, or even supply actual parts so I can reverse engineer them, it
would be most welcome. I'm perfectly happy to put the hours into the design work, but I'm not in a position to gather parts from
wrecker's yards, so I am totally reliant on other peoples' assistance to make this all work.
Front hub:
[Edited on 14/11/05 by Rorty]
[Edited on 14/11/05 by Rorty]
 
Rescued attachment hub-front_Golf-Jetta_2.0L_TDI_01.jpg
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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Rorty
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| posted on 14/11/05 at 01:23 AM |
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Front wheel bearing:
 
Rescued attachment wheelbearing-front_Golf-Jetta_99.5-05_01.jpg
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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Rorty
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| posted on 14/11/05 at 01:26 AM |
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Rear stub axle with calliper mount:
 
Rescued attachment stub_axle-rear_disc-88-99-Golf-Jetta_01.jpg
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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Rorty
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| posted on 14/11/05 at 01:26 AM |
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Rear hub:
 
Rescued attachment hub-rear_Golf-Jetta_99.5-05_01.jpg
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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Rorty
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| posted on 14/11/05 at 01:30 AM |
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Front disc brakes....
...and rear disc:[pg=]
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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Lozec
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| posted on 14/11/05 at 03:30 AM |
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Rorty,
From what year/models are the items on the excelent pictures?
Is there any reason why not using the front hub in all four corners?
[Edited on 14/11/05 by Lozec]
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Rorty
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| posted on 14/11/05 at 04:52 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Lozec
Rorty,
From what year/models are the items on the excellent pictures?
Is there any reason why not using the front hub in all four corners?
The parts in the pics are from 99 to present, but as far as I can ascertain, all Mk III stuff (from 91) will do the job.
Am I imagining things, or is there someone on the forum who works in a VAG spares dept? Confirmation of part numbers would be terrific, though
I'm pretty sure my research is good.
The front hubs are totally different to the rears; the fronts are splined onto the stub axles which spin in bearings in the uprights, whereas the
rears are of the conventional kind and have bearings that spin on the rear stub axle.
The calliper mounts are different too.
Also, if someone wanted to use a car as a donor, then using the same hubs all round would necessitate two donors.
Anyway, each end is perfect for what it does, so I don't really want to re-invent the wheel or introduce more custom machining than is
absolutely necessary (which, on the rear, with standard parts, is nil). The front end only requires the upright to be fabricated which is a very
simple job if I do a keyed upright.
The only parts that would require machining (turning) are new bearing housings, which are basically just a short length of pipe with two circlip
grooves.
It really doesn't get much simpler.
Here's an abbreviated Golf, GTi, Jetta, Rabbit and Scirocco model history that I compiled from several sources, but I believe it to be
accurate.
Golf III (1991–1998)
The third-generation Golf was launched in 1991, although it did not appear in North America until 1993.
Golf IV (1998–2003)
This model wasn't introduced to North America until mid 1999.
Golf R32 (2003-2004)
In 2003 VW produced the Golf R32 in Europe, and in 2004, decided to sell the car in North America (except Canada) as the VW R32.
Golf V (2003–)
The fifth generation began selling in November 2003. It isn't expected to appear in the US until early 2006 (model year 2006½ or 2007).
Variants
The sedan version of the Golf was the Jetta, subsequently known as the Vento (from 1992) and later as the Bora from 1998, although the Jetta name is
still used in North America and South Africa.
The Golf shares the Volkswagen A platform with a number of other Volkswagen Group products including the Audi TT.
Golf, GTI, Jetta (A3 platform) 1993-1999,
Cabrio 1995-2002
1.8 L 4-Cyl. 2V (engine code: ACC)
1.9 L 4-Cyl. 2V TDI (engine codes: AAZ, 1Z, AHU)
2.0 L 4-Cyl. 2V (engine code: ABA)
2.8 L VR6 2V (engine code: AAA)
5-speed manual transmission 020
5-speed manual transmission 02A
4-speed manual transmission 096
4-speed manual transmission 01M
Golf, GTi, Jetta (A4 platform) 1999-2004
R32 2004-
1.8 L 4-Cyl. 5V Turbo (engine codes: AWD, AWW, AWP)
1.9 L 4-Cyl. 2V TDI (engine codes: ALH, BEW)
2.0 L 4-Cyl. 2V (engine codes: AEG, AVH, AZG, BBW, BEV)
2.8 L VR6 2V (engine code: AFP)
2.8 L VR6 4V (engine code: BDF)
3.2 L VR6 4V (engine code: BJS)
5-speed manual transmission 02J
5 & 6-speed manual transmission 02M
6-speed manual transmission 02Y
4-speed automatic transmission 01M
5-speed automatic transmission 09A
Some of the cars are manufactured in South Africa, so there shouldn't be a problem with parts for them either.
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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cymtriks
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| posted on 14/11/05 at 01:10 PM |
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Just a few thoughts
This may be obvious but I'll just point it out:-
I assume that you are using the front hubs at the rear and the rear hubs at the front? Remember that the VW hubs are fwd, we need rwd, so they need
swaping front to rear. Unless I've missed something.
There isn't any reason why we can't use fwd hubs all round, just blank off, or machine out the unused drive splines at the front. By using
the steering arms as track rods at the rear only two hubs would be needed, front and rear. If the steering arms could be made reversible and bolt-on
then only one hub would be required all round with the steering arms reversed left-to-right and used as track control link mounts at the rear.
What geometry are you aiming for?
I assume that we all want a step improvement over the Cortina/Sierra stuff!
Something like-
ET / offset of 38mm
scrub radius less than 10mm
7.5 degrees of kpi
50% or more Ackerman
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britishtrident
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| posted on 14/11/05 at 01:26 PM |
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A lot of pontential pit falls in using a front upright at the rear the steering arm track end location is going to cause problems when it comes to
bump steer --- OK for the more experienced among us who have an idea on how to find the right postion for the inner joint but it would cause problems
for a lot of Locost builders particularly if they want to modify the design a bit.
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Lozec
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| posted on 14/11/05 at 02:00 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
A lot of pontential pit falls in using a front upright at the rear the steering arm track end location is going to cause problems when it comes to
bump steer --- OK for the more experienced among us who have an idea on how to find the right postion for the inner joint but it would cause problems
for a lot of Locost builders particularly if they want to modify the design a bit.
Any other "pitfall" than the bump steer effect??
I can see tha if you intend to build de dion the hub will be integrated into that, but if oing IRS it would be grat to be able to use the same hub.
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Peteff
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| posted on 14/11/05 at 02:56 PM |
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quote:
If the steering arms could be made reversible and bolt-on then only one hub would be required all round with the steering arms reversed left-to-right
and used as track control link mounts at the rear.
Then you would need two Golfs to make one set which is what Rorty is trying to avoid I would imagine. Making rear steer front uprights so you can use
the Golf rack would simplify the job of sourcing parts even more as finding and modifying racks is not everyones idea of fun.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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madman280
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| posted on 14/11/05 at 04:40 PM |
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I have to agree the VW parts look to be nearly perfect. I had a look around an auto recyler this past weekend. Heaps of cars, lots of nice alloy
wheels. The bolt on rear stub axle is perfect for use in a fabricated front upright, it even has the caliper bracket already. The VW front would be
good if you can work out mating the CV shafts to a good common diff.
Will be watching this thread with great interest.
On the subject of steering racks, I seem to recall there were a number of nice manual ones fitted to those same models? If it becomes a problem that
they are for LHD instead of RHD or which ever, I would be just a matter of finding someone in a different country to switch racks with. Someone from
England, Australia or New Zealand could swap with someone from the Canada, USA or France.
[Edited on 14/11/05 by madman280]
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cymtriks
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| posted on 14/11/05 at 05:35 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Peteff
quote:
If the steering arms could be made reversible and bolt-on then only one hub would be required all round with the steering arms reversed left-to-right
and used as track control link mounts at the rear.
Then you would need two Golfs to make one set which is what Rorty is trying to avoid I would imagine. Making rear steer front uprights so you can use
the Golf rack would simplify the job of sourcing parts even more as finding and modifying racks is not everyones idea of fun.
I don't think that anyone is going to buy an entire car for just four hubs!
The use of the steering links as track control arms at the rear is fairly simple. either make the link the same height as the upper or lower wishbone,
in which case you use one of the inboard wishbone mounts, or copy the bump steer correction diagram in Staniforth.
There are cars out there that use fwd hubs at the rear as I've described-
Original GTM Coupe
MGF
Audi Quattro
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Confused but excited.
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| posted on 14/11/05 at 06:32 PM |
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Having spent days cleaning rust and crap off a set of Cortina uprights and hubs, then reading about bending wishbones, I now find my lovingly refurbed
bits are crap as well!
So I cannot tell you how much I am looking forward to Someone making Rorty's re-designed front end.
It's nice to know the light at the end of the tunnel isn't a train coming in the other direction.
Tell them about the bent treacle edges!
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Syd Bridge
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| posted on 14/11/05 at 06:35 PM |
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I've seen no mention of the Toyota MR's yet. They have all the right bits, in the right places. World car and all that. Scrapyard prices
aren't stupid either.
Just need a tube chassis to bolt it all into.
Problems solved.
Ah well, back to my knitting. 
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Alan B
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| posted on 14/11/05 at 07:10 PM |
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Syd.......
Shhhhhhhhhhh
I don't want all the Meerkat donors using up......
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Peteff
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| posted on 14/11/05 at 08:35 PM |
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Scrapyards round here want loadsamoney for MR2 bits, that's if you can find one that has any in.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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Rorty
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| posted on 14/11/05 at 08:50 PM |
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Ooops!
IDIOT is one way I could describe myself! I got carried away with the convenience of the Golf parts and overlooked the fact that the rear hubs
aren't driven!
OK, so that is a major flaw in my "kit car" approach. It changes the picture somewhat, but isn't a problem as such.
I had thought of using the Golf rear stuff on the rear of the Locost and the front Golf stuff on the front of the Locost. But obviously, I now need to
think of swapping ends.
That should still be OK. The rear hubs and discs (there are both 10mm solid discs and 20mm ventilated rear discs to choose from) can be mounted on new
stub axles in new front uprights. If not, then it's not a huge problem to have to turn up two new stub axles to weld into the front uprights.
If the front and rear Golf calipers share the same mounting points, then it would be possible to bolt the Golf rear stub (with its inbuilt caliper
bracket) to a new front upright.
The Golf front discs, hubs, CVs and axles are all perfect for the rear of the Locost. All I need to do is remodel the rear De Dion and IRS set-ups to
accommodate the components. The Golf rear calipers can be used also, I just need to alter the rear caliper brackets to suit.
So, in the grand scheme of things, not much has changed; a single Golf could still surrender all the components required for this conversion.
I'll amend the shopping list in the post above, but I would still require assistance from other members in attaining dimensions or components to
make this all work.
Apologies for any previous confusion.
[Edited on 14/11/05 by Rorty]
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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Rorty
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| posted on 14/11/05 at 08:55 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Syd Bridge
I've seen no mention of the Toyota MR's yet. They have all the right bits, in the right places. World car and all that. Scrapyard prices
aren't stupid either.
Just need a tube chassis to bolt it all into.
Problems solved.
Ah well, back to my knitting.
They are a nice little car and would probably make an excellent donor, but they're nowhere near as global as Golfs are and they attract
ridiculous prices both second hand and as parts from wreckers.
Damn! Pete beat me to it.
[Edited on 14/11/05 by Rorty]
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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Syd Bridge
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| posted on 14/11/05 at 09:13 PM |
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I must live in the only part of the world where they can't give the stuff away!!
[Edited on 14/11/05 by Syd Bridge]
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Rorty
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| posted on 14/11/05 at 09:15 PM |
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Upon reflection, I think it would be best to make new front stub axles because I would still prefer to do a removable front caliper bracket so people
could choose which caliper they want, rather than being stuck with the Golf front caliper.
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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Rorty
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 posted on 14/11/05 at 09:17 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Syd Bridge
I must live in the only part of the world where they can't give the stuff away!!
[Edited on 14/11/05 by Syd Bridge]
In that case you should gather up all the free MR2 parts that you can and sell them for a modest sum to all the people who are paying too much for
them.
I'm sure AlanB would take some off your hands. He may even be prepared to pay postage.
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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sgraber
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| posted on 14/11/05 at 09:33 PM |
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two words. Geo Metro.
two more. Suzuki Swift
Same car. Very light and crappy. Similar upright design to the MR2.
Steve Graber
http://www.grabercars.com/
"Quickness through lightness"
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Rorty
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| posted on 14/11/05 at 09:47 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by madman280
The VW front would be good if you can work out mating the CV shafts to a good common diff.
Some Golfs use a 94mm OD inner CV joint, but interestingly, most later Golfs use a 100mm OD x 32mm wide CV which coincidently is the same size
as the Sierra CV!
So, at least mating the CVs won't be a problem.
I have quite an extensive list of available Golf axle lengths, so it shouldn't be too dificult to incorporate a standard length Golf axle into
the De Dion and IRS set-ups.
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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Rorty
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| posted on 14/11/05 at 09:57 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by sgraber
two words. Geo Metro.
two more. Suzuki Swift
Same car. Very light and crappy. Similar upright design to the MR2.
Two more:
Pontiac Firefly. 
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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