andylancaster3000
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| posted on 3/6/04 at 09:44 PM |
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Honda Engines
Its a well known fact that most honda engines rotate in a different direction to many other makes (eg ford, vauxhall etc..).
Due to this they cannot be used in a kit car as the normally used ford running gear is different to it. However if you used a mk2 escort live axle is
it possible to turn the axle up side down to gain the correct drive direction. Or will the gear box not like being run constantly in the wrong
direction?
I saw this idea used on scrap heap challenge once were a gearbox got stuck in reverse, so they turned the axle over, run it in reverse and travelled
in the right direction.
Please correct me if i am wrong and making a complete arse of myself but it may stop these good little engines going to waste.
Andy
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JoelP
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| posted on 3/6/04 at 09:50 PM |
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this one has been discussed before, apparently you will get a constant reverse whine. There may also be problems with the oil, though these may be
less of a problem.
also, it has been suggested that the teeth will wear out faster running backwards.
Beware! Bourettes is binfectious.
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 3/6/04 at 09:58 PM |
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its to do with the way the bevel gears are cut that causes the whine and premature wear
atb
steve
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andylancaster3000
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| posted on 3/6/04 at 09:59 PM |
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Is there a reason for a reverse whine. If the reverse gear isn't engaged why would there be a whine from it. If it did whine i spose you could
persude people you had a 1000 pounds worth of dog box!
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andylancaster3000
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| posted on 3/6/04 at 10:01 PM |
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Nevermind, but say good bye to the honda engine idea then !!
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JoelP
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| posted on 3/6/04 at 10:07 PM |
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i once asked alanb this very question. apparently, though reverse is dog teeth cogs, most of the whine comes from the diff bevels going backwards.
unless you get an s2000 rear diff?!
Beware! Bourettes is binfectious.
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andylancaster3000
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| posted on 3/6/04 at 10:09 PM |
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Oh right I thought it was just dog gears for the reverse...
or an s2000 engine!!!!!!
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robinbastd
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| posted on 3/6/04 at 10:13 PM |
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Build a middy!
Ian
Only a dead fish swims with the tide.
http://smuttygifts.com/
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JoelP
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| posted on 3/6/04 at 10:13 PM |
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re-reading your first post again, i dont think the gearbox would be too impressed going backwards either!
on the bright side, there is a vast range of engines to choose from, all spinning the right way! be it big bike, rover, v6, pinto, zetec, vauxhall,
rotary, cossie, hamster wheel etc.
Beware! Bourettes is binfectious.
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mangogrooveworkshop
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| posted on 3/6/04 at 10:31 PM |
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http://www.worldclassmotorsports.com/
Honda powered sevens in texas usa
[Edited on 3-6-04 by mangogrooveworkshop]
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Hugh Paterson
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| posted on 3/6/04 at 11:13 PM |
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Thats nice
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MonkeyHunter
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| posted on 3/6/04 at 11:44 PM |
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The S2000 dif wouldnt do you any good as the S2K engine (and the NSX i believe) spin clockwise unlike the other honda engines.
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macspeedy
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| posted on 4/6/04 at 05:14 PM |
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i got quoted 3 and a half grand for a s2000 engine 6 speed box and the lsd diff from a 38,000 mile car!!
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SteveF
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| posted on 7/6/04 at 11:59 AM |
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And how much do SBD want for a 240 hp tuned VX or Duratec? 
From memory you're talking a hell of a lot more (£10k?) - for an engine which will need a lot of looking after - whereas the honda is 240 hp
stock
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SteveF
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| posted on 7/6/04 at 12:02 PM |
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Forgot to add - there are now throttle bodies, and a dry sump available - Engine management is still a bit iffy though - as not many people mod them
in the UK
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chbright
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| posted on 7/6/04 at 05:34 PM |
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i thought that engines produced after the s2000 all spun the same way as the s2000 engine?
nother question
could u make the old engines spin the other way by doing the following:
A)wiring the motor to fire in the order of:1,4,3,2, both injectors and spark plugs
B)then put on a starter that would crank it in the direction u want it to spin?
[Edited on 7/6/04 by chbright]
[Edited on 7/6/04 by chbright]
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JoelP
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| posted on 7/6/04 at 06:01 PM |
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you would probably have to swap the cams as well, so that the ports open at the correct time - its not just the firing that has to be backwards.
exhaust and intake phase are changed too. plus the oil and water pumps might need changing.
Beware! Bourettes is binfectious.
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chbright
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| posted on 7/6/04 at 06:04 PM |
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you are correct JoelP
just found a site that said the same thing
Converting Clockwise
that would make it a much harder task, but not out of the question. if u could get the engine to spin right what would you use for a gearbox, other
than the s2000 gearbox
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JoelP
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| posted on 7/6/04 at 11:09 PM |
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then it would be the classic problem of picking a gearbox that can take the power, and making an adaptor plate to sandwich between the bellhousing and
the engine. i dont think there will be any boxes that share a bolt pattern and go backwards.
its a good exercise in problem solving and creative engineering, but maybe not worth the effort unless the engine was a blinder.
Beware! Bourettes is binfectious.
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SteveF
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| posted on 8/6/04 at 08:50 AM |
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The engine from the latest civic type R goes the same way as the s2000 - but then you need an adaptor plate - as it's FWD - these engines have
been 'dropped' into elises & 340Rs with some success - making a 220 hp flier
There was a westfield with a 2 litre (non vtec) prelude engine which had been reversed by plays-kool - it made good power - but aparently 'you
dont want to ask about the cost' 
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andyps
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| posted on 8/6/04 at 11:49 AM |
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A simple idler gearbox between the crank and gearbox might be easier and cheaper than some of these suggestions. Could be done in a similar way to the
idler gear in the Mini which was there because they turned the engine round at the last minute and didn't want to have four reverse gears!
Andy
An expert is someone who knows more and more about less and less
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chbright
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| posted on 9/6/04 at 04:25 PM |
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after doing some readind, the new K series hondas do spin the right way. I know that with a header swap the K20A2 (the one in the rsx) is pumping out
about 220whp. thats a good little engine, to bad it would be a pain to get a gearbox to make it rwd. With all the honda tuners out there this engine
should be a devil once the tuners start really playn with it, they haven't really even started playing with the cams yet and alota the guys
think that new cams will really make it come alive. all the tuners say that it is more effiecent than the vaunted B series engine and a good number of
them pump out 200whp with some simple external work, and a cam swap. I hope some one comes up with an adapter plate so a locost could use one.
the price is still a little high though abot $1000 in the states for the basic k20 or k24. the type R like K20 is still $3000
yeah thats expensive but it will hopefully come down over time.
btw what type of work is nessisary to get a zetec to 220whp nad what kinda torque numbers do they get. I wanta see if the work required is small
enough to choose it over the new, expensive honda.
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NS Dev
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| posted on 9/6/04 at 04:56 PM |
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£3500 for the complete s2000 running gear, if I had the money I would snap the sellers hand off!!!
As was said, you are looking at a minimum of £2500 for a 240 hp vauxhall engine, realistically probably nearer £3500, and that's doing it all
yourself, the £10000 figure would be better if you went to SBD with chequebook in hand, especially as for a 240 hp spec XE engine you don't NEED
a steel crank, which is in itself £1500 or so and the S2000 has one as standard. Also the gearbox in the S2000 is superb, triple cone synchro is not
cheap to make, nor is pump fed bearings.
Believe me, at £25,000 for an S2000 (RHD imports are about that figure now), Honda are selling an absolute steal, and I mean that sincerely, there is
no way Honda are making a penny on that car unless they can keep selling it for 10 years plus!!
(PS my mum has one so some knowledge is first hand! unfortunately she won't let me near it with the spanners!!)
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Jasper
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| posted on 12/6/04 at 10:01 AM |
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I've just been offered enough for my ZX9 for me to consider selling it to this chap at the end of the summer.
I'm seriously interested in using an S2000 engine/gearbox. Anybody know of any good online info about this? And anybody know if it has an LSD as
standard? I've contacted the WCM in the US, but anybody know of anybody build using this in the UK? Or any good suppliers of SH engines in the
UK?
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SteveF
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| posted on 14/6/04 at 08:59 AM |
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Jasper
I know several people (including myself) who are building using an s2000 engine - and have a lot of info / contacts on the subject - also have a
couple of names of suppliers for parts.
By the way it comes with a standard 4.1 LSD - it's about the same size as a sierra diff, but the mount points are quite differerent.
PM me for more details
Steve
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