blakep82
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| posted on 19/3/12 at 12:20 PM |
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is this suitable to write on an application form?
got an application form for an apprenticeship to fill in, its for welding and fabrication in a ship yard, i'm a bit older than your usual
apprentice, but i've got nothing... worked in call centres which i hate, but seems to be all i can get considered for... anyway, views on this
as an answer? got to be hand written too...
State how your experience, skills, and training both inside and outside of work make your application for this post particularly
relevant
My employment history has mainly been with customer services, so my hobbies and interests are more relevant to my application. When I was 14, I bought
a Mini with the intention of restoring it. I asked my parents for a MIG welder for Christmas so I could learn how to weld and repair the body shell.
Unfortunately at this age I was lacking the skills to repair the car, and decided I wanted to learn how to weld properly. I wanted to take an
apprenticeship, but instead I was pressured into a path I wasn’t interested in, and I have regreted that ever since. I stripped the Mini and learned
how the whole car worked, and the shell was scrapped as I went to college.
A few years later I bought an ex-race car chassis to rebuild, many of the parts had to be designed and fabricated myself, as the spec of the car is a
little different to the racing version. I’ve designed and fabricated gearbox mounting plates, cooling tank mounting brackets, headlight brackets, fuel
system brackets, and some suspension parts. I have never received any welding training, and have taught myself this skill since owning the Mini. The
car will need to go through a test by VOSA to ensure the build is safe for road use. I have a friend who has a waterjet cutting machine, so I have
been producing basic CAD drawings of parts I need to have made to help with the build of the car.
I have also been recycling gas cylinders into barbeques and patio heaters, adding a door, chimney, and air intake to sell, but this is mainly to keep
up my welding, as its something I enjoy doing. So far I have only used a small MIG welder, and I really want to learn TIG welding and MMA welding too.
My friends also ask me to do some repair welds on their cars, and since I have not been trained yet as a welder, I state clearly it is just a
temporary repair, and that the component should be replaced. In the most recent case, when the cars rear axle was removed and replaced, it turned out
that my weld is stronger than the original metal around it.
I have been teaching myself to spray cars, so I can paint my project car when I’m finished building. I’ve sprayed car bonnets and doors for friends,
and I’ve also done a lower half respray on a work van for a friend, repairing panels from rust damage. The rear door was very rusty and dented, once I
finished the job, he commented that the rear door looked like it was a new door.
Over the past few weeks, I’ve been boarding my dads loft to cover new insulation, this meant raising the floor 3” as the insulation was higher than
the rafters. I designed and built floating wooden floor system, so that the boards were located over a wooden frame, so there was no weak spots in the
floor, and the floor fully supports itself.
Something I miss from the past 6 years working in call centres, is being able to stand back at the end of a days work, and be able to look at what
I’ve spent the day doing, and the sense of achievement and satisfaction that comes with it, as the creation takes shape. I get this from the various
projects I’ve been doing, but I miss this from work.
List all your hobbies and interests
My hobbies include re-building my ex-race car, learning skills such as welding, paint spraying and fibre glassing, I’ve been making wood burning patio
heaters and barbeques out of old gas cylinders, I’m keen to learn about the history of heavy industry and ship building on the Clyde and in general,
I’m fascinated by how machines work, and I’m not the kind of person who’s happy with knowing a machine does a certain job and that’s in, I like to
find out about the inner workings of the machine and understand its strengths and weaknesses. I feel understanding how a machine works means I don’t
take it for granted, and have a respect for the machine. For my next car project, I would like to rebuild a Land Rover, and include some sort of
hydraulic system, as I’m very interested in hydraulics.
I’m very much into dance music production, and I work with my friend to produce tunes under the name ‘Electro Rave Rangers’ We have had a tune played
on BBC Radio 1. I also enjoy DJing, but I am a vinyl purist, so that is just for my own enjoyment now. I like to keep up with all sorts of new
technology in computing, mobile phones and other electronics. I also like to watch shipping on the river, seeing what ships come in and where they’ve
come from or where they’re going. I also love watching the tugboats working on the river.
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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owelly
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| posted on 19/3/12 at 01:06 PM |
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Before you go any further, speak to the company involved and check they are aware of your age. My company won't consider anyone unless they
attract all the government funding available, and that means day release at 15/16, and then full apprenticeship at 16/17 for four years.
Back on topic, I'm not too sure your biog is relevant. Does the letter ask for such a thing or just a hand-written CV?
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
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mds167
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| posted on 19/3/12 at 01:11 PM |
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Hi,
A hand written application seems unusual these days but if that's what they want then stick to their rules. Have they stipulated a length? You
need to ensure that you can write all of that out in very ledgible handwriting without any mistakes.
Personally, I would try and cut down the text - this is your application and the chance to provide something that can trigger an interview question
(how did you get into welding?) rather than the whole story.
Make it easy for the reader to pick out the key points (self-taught to a high standard {though someone else to to confirm that it is to a high
standard!} with experience of muplitple fabrications: brackets, plates and suspension parts). Remember - they could be looking at a lot of
applications and may not give yours the full attention it deserves if you make it difficult for them.
Some people would would suggest against putting in something too negative ("I wanted to take an apprenticeship, but instead I was pressured into
a path I wasn’t interested in" though it provides the oportunity for an interviewer to ask about how you would deal with such a circumstance
now.
Of course, the best thing you could do is find out who is reviewing the CVs or doing the interview and find out what format they want - get ahead of
the game.
One thing - a cynical recruiter might say that with so many outside interests, when would you find time to fit in work? Or with such a diverse
selection of hobbies, can you stay focussed on your job if it involves little variation? I'm not trying to criticise but encourage you to focus
on 'selling' youself in the best way. It's horrible and hard but necessary to get the interview. You can sell your personality much
better face to face rather than on paper.
Please bear in mind that I don't recruit for this industry so others may well have a better informed view.
Hope that hekps and best of luck
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dhutch
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| posted on 19/3/12 at 02:07 PM |
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All sounds like good stuff, my main comment would be that it reads very informally, more like a chat than the carefully formulated document it could
be.
Also, although you might have hated it and think it non-relevant you will be able to put down something for 6 years of employment.
- Areas of responsibility, even if just keeping your work area tidy.
- Skills developed during your time there
- Anything else you have taken from the experience.
You cant (or certianly should, and i wouldnt) lie about anything, but you can and should be positive and include anything that portrays as a
good/useful/hardworking/competant person. Drive and willingness will be as important as anything else, there after someone good to train, not a coded
welder who can start tomorrow.
Daniel
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ReMan
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| posted on 19/3/12 at 02:26 PM |
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I guess the handwritten bit covers the fact trhat tyhere are too many young folk that fall at that hurdle.
As said, its all good info but too informal and too long.
Take it down into bullet points as to what you have/can do specifics. Lose all the negatives how you wre pressured into doing thisngs and how your
repaairs are temporary, make the positives eg YOU CAN WELD!
Then join it back up in a more consise version avoid refences to what your friends do and their opinions.
Two or three didtinct paragraphs to make it easy reading for the prospective employee to take an interest should suffice
Good luck!
www.plusnine.co.uk
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cadebytiger
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| posted on 19/3/12 at 02:31 PM |
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I don't work in the industry but I think this is great advice for any application
to quote mds167
"Remember - they could be looking at a lot of applications and may not give yours the full attention it deserves if you make it difficult for
them. "
Keep it concise, be enthusiastic and sell yourself - It IS a competition!
also agree that being positive as much as possible is a good thing.
Rupert
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dhutch
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| posted on 19/3/12 at 03:24 PM |
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Yeah, you want to really trowel thick, keep the positives flowing thick and fast, write it from your heart and then without losing the meaning, go
back an edit out half words! Avoid repeating words/details.
Im new to this too, but have had a fair bit of advice and a few stabs at my CV, you want to start of with a short and sweet two lines about why you
are friggin awesome;
"I am a keen an entusatic ______ and I really get satifaction in _______ this means that ____
Write about your previous employment and education;
"During six years in my previous roll a _____ I was able to ____ and found that my streghts were ____
And then something about your interests;
"Keens interests of mine include ______ which allows me to _______
Each time taking from that what you have learnt and how you have developed to be even more ruddy brill! Dont go stupid, but get the good bits out
there on show to there max.
"From this is have learn that _______ , and am keen that I progress this by_______"
Also show its current uptdate stuff, even if its not that recent, its all good
"Recently I have _______
Throw in something about how helpful you are, or caring, or whatever, helping your dad with is attic, etc
"I also so help by______
[ I dont know if anyone else can tell, but today at the world of my desk, work is slow... ]
lol
Daniel
[Edited on 19/3/2012 by dhutch]
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scootz
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| posted on 19/3/12 at 05:21 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by owelly
Before you go any further, speak to the company involved and check they are aware of your age. My company won't consider anyone unless they
attract all the government funding available, and that means day release at 15/16, and then full apprenticeship at 16/17 for four years.
^^^this^^^
Most companies only take on apprenticeships as the govt will contribute to the wage / training costs. That scheme is age-capped though 
It's Evolution Baby!
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 19/3/12 at 05:49 PM |
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We have just taken on an apprentice, the points above are valid re age vs grants, I would also suggest the letter would be to long winded also, I gave
up reading it on here in my spare time so for sure would have given up whilst busy at work.
We get the odd letter through the post on spec, most are not up to much, one short to the point letter got my attention so much so I rang the guy even
though we had nothing at the time to let him known if efforts where not in vein and I would be filing it for future reference. We did call him some
time later unsurprisingly he had found work.
Just trying to offer something constructive to help you find something.
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maccmike
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| posted on 19/3/12 at 05:53 PM |
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I think thats very interesting.
Approaching it from a different angle could work well in your favour.
Dont let age put you off, the worst they can say is no.
They may even have another position for you, if it is financially viable you could suggest an unpaid trial period to reveal your abilities?
I have written more CV's than soft mick including for friends and family (A level english + 6 more and currently doing a degree) so I know how
to put CV's together if I can be of assistance?
When reading an application, people recall the beginning and end only, the middle always gets skipped, I think your application is a little long
winded and repetitive in places, it is these 2 areas where you can put your application across well.
A memorable and interesting CV really does stand out above the rest.
If it was me, after editing your application, I would take it to said company and ask to see the gaffer for a chat, it is here that he/she can hear
all about your history, witness your personality and feel your passion.
Companies like people coming in off the street, it shows eagerness and innitiative.
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mark chandler
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| posted on 19/3/12 at 05:56 PM |
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You need to grab them in the first couple of sentances, sorry that rambles and does not promote your abilities just discusses them.
For instance
"I was lacking the skills to repair the car, and decided I wanted to learn how to weld properly. I wanted to take an apprenticeship, but instead
I was pressured into a path I wasn’t interested in, and I have regreted that ever since. I stripped the Mini and learned how the whole car worked, and
the shell was scrapped as I went to college"
At 14 you will not have skills, this says to me I loss interest and give up and can be bullied, it should be entirely deleted.
Try and analyse the message you are trying to put across.
Sorry if this sounds harsh, keep it simple and succinct 
After school you followed further education at college, this is a plus!
Not being trained does not mean you cannot weld, you are a self taught welder, you are now building a racing car.
To raise additional money to support your hobby you have designed, built and sold barbeques and patio heaters.
Regards Mark
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 19/3/12 at 06:06 PM |
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I'd remove some of it to be honest and just keep in the positives.
Remove the bit about you saying it was just a temp repair etc. It lends the reader to believe that you are not confident that it will last IMHO.
As for your age I'd imagine your lining up for one of these modern day apprenticeships which are on the go. Some gov. funding has I believe been
made available to buisinesses to trian guys.girls up to the age of 26 IIRC.
Be confident, be honest and good luck.
If it looks wrong it probably is wrong.
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Mr C
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| posted on 19/3/12 at 07:04 PM |
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There's a lot of good advice here, think about the language you use Be I would include "power" words that reflects your abilities
rather than your lack of confidence. also avoid writing down "feelings" This link may be helpful
http://www.prospects.ac.uk/job_applications_power_words.htm
I would try putting together a targeted CV which should highlight your attributes that are relevant to the job. These are good if you haven't
any relevant work experience for the job you are applying for.
Basically no longer than one side of A4, any longer and it won't be read, listing your achievements, capabilities and interests, schooling, work
history, mother's maiden name etc, can be listed chronologically on a separate sheet or in the application form. Don't forget to use power
words and:
~ bullet point your attributes
Lastly all the best with your application
[Edited on 19/3/12 by Mr C]
Girl walks into a bar and asks for a double entendre, so the barman gave her one
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perksy
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| posted on 19/3/12 at 07:45 PM |
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Just my 2p
Please take it as being positive
I'd condense it right down to the positives
Keep the reader interested and portray all the positives
Good team player, keen to learn new skills and improve on existing ones etc etc
Think sometimes there's too much info and the folk reading the applications start to switch off
As said though do check first to make sure you meet the required criteria
Otherwise you'll be doing all this for nothing
Good luck and hope all it all works out ok
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blakep82
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| posted on 19/3/12 at 08:44 PM |
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awesome thank you everyone
you're right of course about the negatives, the reason why I wrote that bit about being pressured away from apprenticeships was I thought it
might show that i'm more determined now to correct that, but given no one has picked up on that, they won't pick up that vibe either, so
it'll go!
That seems to be the main issue you've picked up on, so i'll sort that, amongst other point picked up.
I should have maybe given a bit more info on the progress so far, might give a bit more context perhaps, and might answer a few other things mentioned
too
I conteact the yard in september asking if they would ever take a trainee, as I've been welding for 15 years, but never got any qualifications
in welding. the response was that they only take timeserved tradesmen. then in november there was news of a new ferry contract and around 20
apprenticeships, so I contacted them again, they said to send in a CV as an application, which I did, along with a photo CD of photos of various
projects, and they confirmed receipt.
I emailed them at the end of january to find out if there was any progress, and they said applications had closed and they will be reviewing them
shortly, and they'd be in contact soon. then at the end of februaury, I got a letter from a place called 'the trust' saying
they'd been passed my details from the yard, and to collect an application form.
the trust deal with a lot of apprenticeships when they come up.
the form itself has the usual sections:
personal details
education (secondary)
education (further/vocational/higher
membership of professional institutes
particulars of formal training or apprenticeships
current employment
previous employment
the two i mentioned above
and referees
the form itself is on paper, so has to be hand written really, it says to use extra paper if required on the 2 sections in the OP. I wonder if they
even looked at the CD on the original CV i posted, maybe that caught their eye? maybe a page included with the app with printed photos? photos a bad
idea?
as for funding, it says I can apply, but funding wouldn't be available for me, as i'm over 24. no idea on the cost... but I think i can
get it covered. i hope
I'll get it re-written tonight, and post it again tomorrow!
i've also got an appointment with skills development scotland on thursday to go over my CV and I'm going to take the application form in
too, to go over it before finishing it and handing it in.
fingers crossed, I really can't carry on the way i'm going... i'm getting nothing back from anything i'm applying for, and I
really can't work out why
thanks again guys, you lot are awesome!
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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Not Anumber
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| posted on 19/3/12 at 09:15 PM |
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To me a very great positive is that you can clearly string words together very well, spell and use grammar correctly; it's scary how many people
cant do these things and you will always have the edge over them.
It woud be hard to better some of the advice you have received here. Again keep it reasonably succint, add in some positive words about the time you
worked in the call centres focussing on any special responsibilities, anything you were asked to do that was outside the run of the mill, if you
supervised others, received first aid training etc.
I can see what you were trying to achive with the 'negative' comment- you were trying to make a good point and i think you could get this
over to them by deliberately turning it into a positive. E.g although engineering was your first career choice you had to put the dream on hold and
knuckled down to working at a local call centre where you have earned a sucessful living by day - but continued to buildup your engineering and
fabrication skills in your spare time.
Only mention the music in passing or keep it for the interview- it's too much of a gamble to expect the other person will like the same sort of
music, if he's an old rocker for instance this could have the same effect as someone turning up in a Rangers shirt when applying for a job at
Celtic Park.
[Edited on 19/3/2012 by Not Anumber]
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mds167
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| posted on 20/3/12 at 09:18 PM |
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Hi, hope all goes well with the app.
Practice what you're going to write if you have to write it by hand. I would be careful being 'over positive' but certainly reduce
the negative. I read a lot of CVs that feel hollow - your paragraphs were certainly honest so I'd suggest you try and keep that while reducing
them down and not blanding them out. It really isn't easy (I hate doing it myself). Once again, good luck!
I also agree the last post about turning negatives into a positive - there's value in every job you do, even if you hate it. If you believe
that and can provide genuine examples when questioned, you demonstrate all sorts of qualities a potential employer will appreciate - reslilience,
adaptability, tolerance, a willingness to learn...I'll shut up now before this wanders further into recruitment BS!
[Edited on 20/3/12 by mds167]
[Edited on 20/3/12 by mds167]
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mds167
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| posted on 20/3/12 at 09:29 PM |
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Damn! Posted a day too late!
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blakep82
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| posted on 26/3/12 at 07:21 PM |
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thanks again everyone!
form went in on friday, fingers crossed.
on thursday i went to the 'skils development scotland' office, for a 'job skills club' although it was just an appointment for
me and an adviser. I showed her what i'd written for the first section, she said she really liked it. she said she liked it because she felt
like she knew me after reading it, because of it being written like i was talking to her. and she also said that it could be cut down a lot.
I then showed her the post that Dave Ashurst wrote for me, with bullet points, and she couldn't decide between the two. she liked it because it
was 'to the point'
we decided on cutting mine down by a third (basically all the negative points as mentioned on here, and took out the bit about doing the loft, and
instead we put in a 'key skills' type bullet pointed summary at the end.
for the second section, that was mainly the same, a few parts removed, and a brief mention about the loft in there.
we also discussed enclosing a few photos of my projects (nothing too detailed) and I put in a copy of my CV also
fingers crossed! although when i went in to hand the form in on friday, i got in the lift with a little boy about 16 who asked if i was going in the
lift, looked at his feet, and did the same when he handed his form to the receptionist. he did make himself very presentable though by wearing his
beast track suit and fred perry trainers. far too clean, looked like he didn't know which end of a screw driver to use...
thanks again for everyones help, keep everything crossed for me please! 
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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scootz
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| posted on 26/3/12 at 07:24 PM |
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Good luck fella!
It's Evolution Baby!
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blakep82
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| posted on 26/3/12 at 07:47 PM |
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cheers boss
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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flak monkey
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| posted on 26/3/12 at 08:12 PM |
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Apprentice funding stops at 25, not 17.
I would cut the text down to as little as possible. Just provide some general interesting stuff that can trigger interview discussion and questions.
Bit like a CV should be a page, or max of 2 long. You'll find people wont read it all if you write too much.
Seems harsh, but that's just how it is
Oh and good luck with it all 
[Edited on 26/3/12 by flak monkey]
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