DarrenW
|
| posted on 6/4/06 at 03:02 PM |
|
|
Pinto Bike Carb & megajolt Conversion
I was recently very kindly given a set of ZZR1100 carbs off Guiness - Many thanks. After some pondering have decided to go ahead with the conversion.
This is what i have found out / done so far.
1. i spoke to Boggs for advice. Very helpful and friendly on the phone. Whilst they favour R1 and Blackbird carbs they said there is no reason why
ZZR1100's shouldnt work. Manifold will be £176.25 all in inc joining rubbers or they can clean, rejet and mount the carbs for aprox £200 ish
(depends if work required). Turn key conversion inc everything is £687.38.
2. I needed a set of trumpets. Boggs gave me a number for a guy in Skelton (Dave Fielder). He has kindly taken some off some carbs and they are on way
to me. Again a very good contact (who also told me that he has supplied ZZR110 carbs to Boggs - this gave me some confidence).
3. Next will be to source some filters and fit them up.
What iam unsure of is (you will note from questions that i know nowt about bike bits!!);
1. What throttle cable will be best to use.
2. Will i need to connect choke?
3. Whilst i have been told mechanical pump will work i have been advised to source solid state low pressure electric pump.
4. What jet sizes will be needed? Boggs can re-drill the 155's to approx 175 to get it running.
5. Carbs already have what appear to be dynojet needles fitted (5 positions and e-clip on top of needle). There isnt any washers - can these be
sourced seperately?
6. Will there be any unforeseen problems in getting the car to run? (ill keep 38DGAS for a while just in case).
7. Filters - i have U2U'd simon to see if his twin 45 filters can be adapted. What have others used (bearing in mind the locost theme here)?
8. Is there anything to be aware of with the carbs ref wear parts, cleaning etc.
If anyone has got their Pinto running on bike carbs following a locost route id love to hear from them.
So far all of the commercial people i have spoken to ref the conversion or bits have been amazingly helpful (Mac#1, Boggs, Dave Fielder, Malc @
Yorkshire engines)
Cheers,
Darren.
[Edited on 15/4/06 by DarrenW]
|
|
|
|
|
02GF74
|
| posted on 6/4/06 at 03:16 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by DarrenW
1. What throttle cable will be best to use.
3. Whilst i have been told mechanical pump will work i have been advised to source solid state low pressure electric pump.
7. Filters - i have U2U'd simon to see if his twin 45 filters can be adapted. What have others used (bearing in mind the locost theme here)?
1. a cable is a cable right? Any cable will do provigding it meets the following criteria. There is a maens to hold the outer in place and the inner
is not too big to be attached. It aslo needs to be long enough. That is easy bit, the hard part is to translate the pedal movement to the right
amount of throttle movement; that is done by a 2 different length levers; the weber/dellorot throttle linkage allow for that (about £50 but I recckon
you can achive the same for pence)
3. solid state pump, facet; see FSE on the web; cheapest I found. you need to fit a filter before the pump; either one of the medal body facets
(rather ££) or cheapo plcct one from VWP.
7. two things here; this is the size and backplate holes. It is likely that the filter box (I'm thnking twin weber/dellotor oval type) will be
big enough for 2 carbs. you can make a new back plat, sheet of ali and bend up the side then drill the holesi n the riught place without too much
trouble or try to patch the exisitng one and drill new holes providing it is an air tight seal.
dunno about the rest.
|
|
|
britishtrident
|
| posted on 6/4/06 at 03:17 PM |
|
|
At the that kind of money you are well into 45 DCOE territory.
|
|
|
02GF74
|
| posted on 6/4/06 at 03:20 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
At the that kind of money you are well into 45 DCOE territory.
yeah but they can be used on the zetec he will fit one day.....
|
|
|
DarrenW
|
| posted on 6/4/06 at 03:31 PM |
|
|
ive got it in my head that i want to overcome the challenge of bike carbs so webers are out of the question (no better reason than that to be honest).
Cost wise it will be cheap cos im going to spend some time searching for bits. Its only really the manifold that will cost the cash.
For cables - i understand the theory just wondering what cable others have used to save me seraching thro the motor factors shelves (lazy i know but
why re-invent the wheel!). I doubt i will need a similar linkage as webers as the bike carbs - being a block of four from the factory - seem to have a
common linkage point. Ill double check tho.
Keep the advice coming.
Oh - and Hellfire ( ) - no im not going to fit the rest of the engine!!! Well not yet anyway.
|
|
|
02GF74
|
| posted on 6/4/06 at 04:12 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by DarrenW
to save me seraching thro the motor factors shelves (lazy i know but why re-invent the wheel!).
custom cable: see VWP, cables by the meter, different diameters and the nipples too 
|
|
|
mookaloid
|
| posted on 6/4/06 at 04:41 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
At the that kind of money you are well into 45 DCOE territory.
I have been led to believe that bike carbs offer advantages over weber 45's in that they offer smoother running, stay in tune and improve
driveability.
I will be intrigued to see how well they do compared with my 45's
Cheers
Mark
|
|
|
oliwb
|
| posted on 6/4/06 at 05:01 PM |
|
|
Cable's a load of tosh....go to a bike shop (push bike) and get a brake cable inner and outer (if you need the extra length get one for a tandem
mountain bike approx 3m long) DO NOT get a facet pump they run at too high a pressure! Get a motor bike electric pump off ebay anything 600cc + will
be fine or alternatively an SU electric pump, it has to be something that will cut out at about 2.5 - 3 psi max. They don't cost anywhere near
as much as Webbers my ZX7r setup cost me £300 all in cables and all....175 seems too lean to me double check with BBros mines a 1.6 pinto and its
running 175 jets perfectly. Would have thought a 2 L will need a bit more juice. Yes you will deffinately need the choke, as there is no accelerator
pump so can't just squirt some fuel in either.....But again a bike cable on an old gear shifter works or I got my lockable choke cable from Ebay
for £4....Yes they work better than webbers in pretty much every respect, don't require as much fine tuning and don't fall out of tune so
quickly....they're just so simple and work so well I don't see the need for the old Webbers anymore! Good luck and U2U me if you want
anymore info.....Oli.
If your not living life on the edge you're taking up too much room!
|
|
|
trifield
|
| posted on 6/4/06 at 05:11 PM |
|
|
DarrenW
Is Dave Fielder from Skelton near Saltburn as I have a friend considering doing a similar setup and is after carbs?
|
|
|
DarrenW
|
| posted on 7/4/06 at 09:45 AM |
|
|
Dave Fielder - yes he is at Skelton (Jennyfield Grange). He supplies Bogg Bros with some of their bits. Spoke to him Tuesday, posted cheque Weds and
parts arrived this morning - faultless service. Well worth a ring.
Oliwb - many thanks for the feedback. Great stuff. Ihope there are some pics in your archive, if not id really appreciate learning how you did the
conversion.
Thanks again everyone - keep the feedback coming
|
|
|
DarrenW
|
| posted on 7/4/06 at 10:18 AM |
|
|
Oliwb - i kind of geuss you are using megajolt. Was this cos you wanted to or cos the dizzy cap wouldnt fit with the bike carbs on? I hope i can still
use my std electronic dizzy set up as its new and cost me a bit!
I know i will have problems with the vac advance so need to get my head around that. How easy is it to modify the electronic dizzy so it doesnt need
the vac connecting?
|
|
|
oliwb
|
| posted on 7/4/06 at 11:50 AM |
|
|
No the dizzy does fit with the bike carbs on....in fact it has to because it runs the oil pump so if you want any oil pressure you'll need it!
No, I wanted to run a megajolt system anyway so just got on with it. I'd recomned doing the same because it just can't be beaten compared
to an old dizzy setup. Plus you can put the whole thing together for sub £100....As to tinkering with dizzys I'm affraid I've got no
idea....I do know however that trying to use the vacuum advance is alot of work, U'll also need to drill out holes in your nice new manifold in
order to use it.....I wouldn't bother....HTH Oli.
Ps. Take a look in my photo archive and you should be able to see how much space there is between manifold and dizzy....oh and make sure u remember to
buy a fuel pump blanking plate from burton's to stop all the oil disappearing when you get ur bike fuel pump.....Oli.
If your not living life on the edge you're taking up too much room!
|
|
|
DarrenW
|
| posted on 7/4/06 at 01:19 PM |
|
|
Ref fuel pump i have been assured that the mechanical pump will work, however electric pumps are cheap so ill probs go that route. Being an injection
engine i have the blanking plate already.
Ref ignition - megajolt... mmmm i like that idea a lot. I was going to to it at some stage, sounds like a good idea now. Ref the dizzy - as i say my
dizzy and module are brand new and could be worth selling on. Can i therefore just chuck in any old dizzy (ie old points pinto dizzy - i dont mean off
a different engine!) in its place so that the oil pump still runs? It wont have to be timed up or anything will it? i wonder if i could modify an old
dizzy so that it doesnt look crap (ie no cap etc).
With megajolt is it advisable to run TPS or are they just as good without (is this 3D vs 2D??).
Thanks again.
|
|
|
02GF74
|
| posted on 7/4/06 at 01:41 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by DarrenW
i wonder if i could modify an old dizzy so that it doesnt look crap (ie no cap etc).
you can thake the advance weights off the springs and let them cut through the body like what happened to this rover v8 one!!
|
|
|
DarrenW
|
| posted on 7/4/06 at 01:48 PM |
|
|
That kind of supports my theory in a strange sort of way. I guess if you run megajolt you only need the bottom section of the dizzy, as long as the
shaft is still held down everything up top can be cut away. This means you have a sort of blanking plug but with lower gear still in place.
|
|
|
02GF74
|
| posted on 7/4/06 at 03:03 PM |
|
|
dunno about the pinto (or xflow for that matter ) but it depends on engine.
Rover v8, from which that dizzy is from, has a cog on the dizzy shaft which engages in a gear on the camshaft. The end of the dizzy shaft is slotted
to drive the oil pump. (there are 2 variants but end of dizzy shaft engages top of oil punmp gear)
There is a y-shaped clamp that holds the dizzy down to the timing cover; the gap between the two fingers of the Y go over the step in the distributor
body - you see that on the right hand photo.
So if pinto has similar arrangment, then yep ; chop up that dizzy!! Throw away that excess weight!!!
|
|
|
jolson
|
| posted on 7/4/06 at 06:59 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by DarrenW i wonder if i could modify an old dizzy so that it doesnt look crap (ie no cap etc).
If you have access to a lathe it's simple enough to cut off the top of the distributor and the shaft, and machine the housing to take a small
sealed bearing cartridge. My effort looks like this:
[img][/img]
Cheers
John
|
|
|
jacko
|
| posted on 7/4/06 at 07:23 PM |
|
|
Bike carb photos
Hi Darren have a look at my photo archives in the zx9r section it may help you . with fillters etc
Jacko
|
|
|
DarrenW
|
| posted on 7/4/06 at 10:55 PM |
|
|
Looks like dizzy mods are very doable. is that a special cap made for end of dizzy to allow end of shortened shaft to run in a bearing and stop it
moving forward under gear thrust??
Jacko, ive seen your pics before. It was probs them that gave me the inspiration to have a go. 2 Q's,
1. Was manilfold easy to make? Where did you get the plate from?
2. Do you need the airbox? Ive just got a set of trumpets for my ZZR1100's, was thinking about fitting sock filters direct to these.
This is all great stuff. keep it coming. I fancy making the manifold. Dont know where to start / get the bits. Id love to save some cash and do the
project with Megajolt (deal almost done on this!).
Have a great weekend y'all.
darren.
|
|
|
jacko
|
| posted on 8/4/06 at 02:31 PM |
|
|
Hi Darren the manifold is not bad at all to make it was about 8- 10 hr work . I made a jig to get the carbs in the right place as in the photos . I
work with steel so just used a off cut from work
On my carbs i have trumpets fitted in the air box . I made the air box so i can still use the holes that were in the bonnet from when i had twin su
carbs fitted Graham
|
|
|
DarrenW
|
| posted on 8/4/06 at 09:08 PM |
|
|
OK quick summary time.
Ignition - Looks like ive done a deal for megajolt. Will fit that first and get it running with DGAS. Thanks for the tips. Ive got an old dizzy to
drive the oil pump. Loks like i will have a brand new electronic dizzy and module for sale soon.
Cables - throttle, use push bike cables. Choke - yes i will need it.
Manifold - im favouring boggs for this. As soon as i have cash ill go and see them.
Jets - 175 might be a bit lean, talk to boggs. Does anyone else have experience with their jets as to what worked with 2.0 litre?
Fuel pump - ill use mech for now but be prepared to get bike pump.
Iam kind of amazed how simple this will all be from the advice ive been given so far.
One area not covered - rolling roads. Is this essential at first or is it possible to get it close at home. (I know that RR is essential to get the
best out of any set up - im just thinking initially before i can get there, ie so it at least runs fairly well)
Dynojet needles - are these easy to set up? Mine dont have the washers - anyone got a spare set?
Next thing to get to grips with will be the megajolt set up. Again this sounds spookily easy.
Im still interest to read about someones full set up and experience of converting to bike carbs the locost way. (ie what they did, why and what
problems were encountered)
|
|
|
oliwb
|
| posted on 9/4/06 at 05:40 PM |
|
|
Personaly I had no problems with the bike carbs...bolted them on pulled the choke out and away she went....had never heard this engine run b4 either
so I was amazed! Megajolt was easy too just follow the diagrams and you can't go too far wrong! I'd just plump up and get yourself a
bike fuel pump now if I were you (zx6r works a treat) the carbs really won't tolerate being over fuelled....a mates mech fuel pump on an old-ish
fiat was too much for them even with a t-piece and recirculating setup! Their only about £15 to buy anyhow, if for no other reason than piece of
mind!!! Good luck...Oli.
If your not living life on the edge you're taking up too much room!
|
|
|
jacko
|
| posted on 9/4/06 at 06:18 PM |
|
|
Hi when i fitted my carbs i drilled the jets to 170 and it started first go. I would recommend using a bike fuel pump .
In about 2-3 weeks the car is going to bogg brothers to be set up on a r road so i my be able to give you more info after that Graham
|
|
|
DarrenW
|
| posted on 11/4/06 at 09:40 AM |
|
|
Ok - next conundrum.
Has anyone re-spaced ZZR1100 carbs? What is involved to do this? My main area of thickness is spacing the throttle linkages?
Reason i ask is i cant decide wether to go locost manifold route and make my own - hence respacing makes it easier to achieve a good result, or buy
from Boggs at £176 (which i dont have). I still have filters, megajolt trigger wheel and bike pump to source so cash needs to spread a bit thinner yet
and i have the time.
|
|
|
jacko
|
| posted on 11/4/06 at 07:18 PM |
|
|
Darren can you weld ? if so i would make a manifold cost me nothing but time to do . I dont think i would split the carbs i know a mate who did
this not very easy to do [ fiddly ] Graham
[Edited on 11/4/06 by jacko]
|
|
|
