Hi,

Does anyone know if this Waterproof LED Cluster
http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?ITAG=SPEC&ModuleNo=12696&doy=16m4#spec

Be used as a rain light?

Cheers, James

Whilst its up too the spec/job I think you will find it will fail scrutineering this year, there was discussion on the RGb site about it,

2004 Blue Book rule N14.18, don't have the latest blue book, sorry.

Can't see anywhere where it says it must be MSA approved and there's no list of approved types.

E marked is mandatory for 750MC, I know that much.

If you use it don't forget to fit a resistor to drop the voltage to c9v or they'll fail 1 by 1 over the year, you're sure to fail scrutineering for failed LED's!

At yesterday’s AFD we clarified the situation with regards to Rear Rain/Warning Lights. The most important point we clarified is that ‘MSA Approved’ now means nothing.

In summary, rain lights must be either;

An LED Stop Light to EU regulation 38
An LED Fog Light to EU regulation 7
An FIA homologated rear warning light

If a light meets the EU regulation it will normally have this moulded somewhere on the lens (the letter E in a circle with the relevant number next to it). If it doesn’t, but you believe it has been type approved, then you will need to have documentation from the manufacturer with you to show to the scrutineers if asked.

IMPORTANT (1) - documentation that states that a light ‘conforms’ to or ‘meets’ the EU standard won’t cut it. The light must have been submitted for, and gained, type approval.

A list of FIA rear warning lights can be found here;
http://www.fia.com/resources/documents/477300197__List_19_Rain_Lights.pdf

Important (2) Be very careful the light you have is a genuine approved item and not a copy. For example the LED-1 on page 25 of the Merlin Motorsport catalogue is FIA approved, and that is one of the reasons it cost nearly £40. There are lights around that look and appear very similar for under a tenner, but they are not FIA approved.

This is not an area where anyone should be looking to cut corners. Get a proper light and avoid the nervous sweating in the queue for scrutineering!

PaulB Posted on: 20/02/2007 22:19:29
Phil,

Just a couple of points, we have a Merlin Motorsports light and it has no markings on it at all. We also have a light sourced elsewhere for "under a tenner" as you put it, that also has no marks on it. They look identical and appear to have the same brightness when used. How do we/does anyone tell the difference if the FIA approved light doesn't have any markings on it?

Also can you post Regs 7 and 38, so we can see what the regs say and thus make sure anything we buy is suitable/approved?

Paul B
Car34
DavidW Posted on: 21/02/2007 12:40:02
Phil,

Thanks for clarifying the requirement and giving the link to the FIA list.

I have purchased the Chase Motorsport Wiring Model 12S from Trident at Silverstone - it has a small label on it saying "M12 Rainlight CMWiring 01953 860474", but no other markings. Trident and CMW have both confirmed that this is the FIA approved light, however it is not stamped with any other FIA marking. Trident can be contacted on 01327 857822.

As per Paul I also have an unmarked light looking like the Merlin Motorsport one, but can't confirm exactly where it comes from. (I think these were standard KCW issue)

David
henrythecarr Posted on: 21/02/2007 16:50:56
I'm in a similar situation, having as far as I can tell a good quality rain light, but with no markings. I'm intending to ask the scruits at Mallory what they think, but also have aquired a horrible E marked brake light as a back-up in case they want something E marked!


Phil A Posted on: 21/02/2007 20:23:44
Paul,
I think this is a real problem for the Club/MSA/Scrutineers, as certainly there appears to be little discernable difference between some of the FIA approved lights and the cheaper versions that are available. I don’t know how the Club will police this, but I think we all have a responsibility to help them, and fit lights that we know conform to the regs.

Hopefully it won’t come to this, but do remember that if you do end up in a debate with the scrutineers regarding the eligibility of your rain light the onus is completely on the driver to show that the light does conform – the scrutineers doesn’t have to prove that it doesn’t, they simply have to ask you to prove that it does!

I don’t have details of EU Regs 7 & 38 – these are European Regulations, not anything to do with the MSA or the 750MC. Anyway, you know the only things that matter, in so far as the Club has been very clear about what is needed (lenses with markings or manufacturers documentation confirming type approval).

David,
I think the marking "M12 Rainlight CMWiring" provides a very clear link to this manufacturer and model in the FIA Approved listing, so that seems pretty unequivocal to me.

Henry,
What a muppet.
The reason that Keith Messer (Chairman of the Racing Technical Committee) has gone to the trouble of providing definitive interpretation, and I have gone to trouble of attending the meeting and conveying this interpretation on to you, is to avoid pushing this problem back onto the already pressed scrutineers.

You know what is required, so show some responsibility and fit a rain light that you know conforms to the regulations.

timhoverd Posted on: 27/02/2007 23:42:41
Phil,

As clarification of this. That Merlin light you mention is only claimed by Merlin to be MSA Approved, which you say above now means nothing. It does, though, appear on that list of FIA approved lights.

Do we need the light to have some sort of engraving on it that says it's a Merlin LED-1? How would the scrutineers know that that engraving was kosher?

(Guess who bought a new rain light last year to make sure it was "MSA Approved" and now doesn't know whether to buy yet another one...)

Tim
Phil A Posted on: 28/02/2007 21:54:57
Tim
as I previously said, I think this is a real problem for the scrutineers, who after all have had this problem thrust on them by the MSA. Repeating myself again, but I think the only thing we can do (and to help them) is to fit a light we know to be kosher, and make sure we know how to reference it's kosherness, either via the FIA list or suitable proof of EU type approval.

Thanks Jon. I was just checking as I work round the corner from a Maplin so its quite handy for bits!

James

Your welcome, I have two perfectly useable rain lights in the garage, both of them have passed ok in the passed, now there both redundent.......

Next year it will be.................. fill in the blank spaces.

didn't read the post above so may be irrelevant.

click on the 'overview' tab,

"A high intensity 52mm red LED cluster housed in a waterproof plastic housing that is suitable for large in or outdoor display applications such as sign or message boards. The cluster comprises of an array of super-bright GaAlAs LEDs and has a maximum luminous intensity of 23000mcd."

Can anyone please suggest a supplier of nice round LED foglights I can fit as a foglight for the SVA and which will do the rain light job later? Thanks