Hello i have just had my ms wired up and all setup ready to start but i am not getting spark from leads now i am checking up the list of possibility's and first is the crank sensor,now when my mate wired it up he was pritty sure that it didn't matter which way the wires connected to the plug is this true? On a blacktop zetec (two pin plug)

I'm pretty sure the crank sensor is polarity sensitive.

Check out Here

Regards Dan

[Edited on 29/11/13 by scutter]

vr


timer socket

Thanks folks,i swaped the wires round and still nothing i also changed coil,checked the coil live thats fine, Is there any getto way to check i am getting the spark outputs from the ecu without a multimeter as mine has packed up or any other thing to check.?

You really can't swap out to a custom ECU without having some working electrical test kit - you'll do more damage than you'd spend on tools. Do it right, do it once (trust me, I've hours of life gone under a bonnet with a squirt and I HAVE got the right kit!).

Start at the start:
Plug in a laptop, check for (stable) RPM under cranking.

Dont waste time checking outputs and all the rest until you know you have the input working and reading correctly. Needs to be a logical process or you'll be chasing your tail for days.

Are you sure it's even turning on? Does it know you're cranking? Is it turning on the fuel pump? Are you sure the rest is wired up ok?

[Edited on 29/11/13 by coyoteboy]

Yes everything was wired by a professional more so for the tidyness but i have spent hours upon hours reading and learning all about ms,I had went over the basic settings over 40 times in the past few weeks reading the manual and double checking my input settings,i have sheets of a4 paper every ware for things like all the injector info,spark mode,etc,etc ,relays all click when ignition is on and fuel pump primes when turned over but just no spark,I no i might come across as an idiot asking the questions i am asking on hear but this is all new to me and in a good few months i will look back and think what was i going on about haha When you say check for (stable) RPM under cranking will this indicate that i am receiving a pulse from sensor or am i asking a thick question again.

In tuner studio there is a device called tooth logger. Use that to see if you are getting a stable signal and output from the crank sensor.

Thanks gary i would prob be better getting you to double check everything and see if i have set up the ecu 100%

When you are cranking, you want to check your laptop and make sure that there is an RPM, if it is stable then that's good, if it displays 200ish rpm and then keeps dipping down to 0 every second or so, the crank sensor wiring is the wrong way round.

Are the injectors firing?

While you are cranking, are the two outside LED's flashing on the ECU?

Dave

Just turned her over, rpm is going from 0 to 230 up and down and pulse width 1 and 2 are sitting at 15 ,injection timing is 0,fuel load 90%,ignition advanced 10, hope this helps.

[Edited on 29/11/13 by ozzy69]

Sounds like you're getting either noise or sync errors. What sensor is on the crank and how close is the sensor nose to the wheel?

Can you post a datalog of an attempt at starting? I will dig through the log and see what I can see. Also post your MSQ and we can browse that for potential issues, but the lack of clean input suggests you either haven't sorted the VR conditioner pots right or have noise/polarity issues.

And the age old question applies- where is the ECU grounded and where are all the sensors grounded. And is the crank sensor screened?No daft questions - it can be a nightmare do debug when you have limited kit (and often when you have enough kit!)

[Edited on 29/11/13 by coyoteboy]

ecu is grounded to the bracket that holds the coil onto the head,ats,cts,tph,all have the same wire (sensor return ) in to pin 7 and cps ground is pin 1,i am using ms-2v3.57 and yes the harness came with the crank sensor cables shelded but i have cut the wires to change them round and they are just twisted together at the mo also my ms was already build by diy autotune for the zetec. Hope this helps i will try and sort out the rest of your reply thanks stephen

Change the wires going to the crank position sensor around and see if you get a steady cranking RPM, most likely your problem.

Dave

He's tried that

Will try them round the other way again tomorrow and do a test.But i have tried them round both ways.

[Edited on 29/11/13 by ozzy69]

[Edited on 29/11/13 by ozzy69]

quote:

---

Originally posted by ozzy69
ecu is grounded to the bracket that holds the coil onto the head,ats,cts,tph,all have the same wire (sensor return ) in to pin 7 and cps ground is pin 1,i am using ms-2v3.57 and yes the harness came with the crank sensor cables shelded but i have cut the wires to change them round and they are just twisted together at the mo also my ms was already build by diy autotune for the zetec. Hope this helps i will try and sort out the rest of your reply thanks stephen

---

All sensors should be grounded via their own wire back to the ecu, not via one wire, that will introduce issues of offsets to start with but wont cause sync issues unless it's extreme.

Get a tooth log, msq and log up

This diagram i got from diyautotune http://www.diyautotune.com/tech_articles/grounds.html for my engine .

Personally I think that's about the worst possible way of grounding sensors. The voltage offsets will be small due to the low currents in each sensor but it's bad practice at the least.

[Edited on 29/11/13 by coyoteboy]

Do you propose each sensor having its own lead to the chassis? I would think that would be worse since the reference could differ significantly from lead to lead just based on where it is grounded.

OP - have you played with the potentiometers at all? It surprised me how much tweaking it took to get a good, clean signal.

[Edited on 30/11/13 by atm92484]

no, I propose every sensor has a ground back to the ECU ground. That way they all have the same reference point as the ADC doing the measurement and don't have cumulative voltage drop along the ground line. takes a bit more wire but it is far cleaner and separates signals completely so noise on one ground line doesn't get referenced by the next sensor in line, also never ground to chassis.

Right today i took out my spark plugs then turned over car and my rpm is sitting at 195 and not going up and down it is sitting still,i have my data logging but i am still trying to figer out how to put it up on hear or can i send it to you via email?

You in this afternoon?? Could have a very quick look if you want. Busy but could cast an eye on it and see if its owt obvious.

Need help putting msq and data log onto this forum,ms forum has a upload attachment but what do i do for this forum ?

[Edited on 30/11/13 by ozzy69]

Sorry if Im repeating anything thats been posted already, I havent had a good read of the entire thread but:

Check gap between teeth and sensor if its not the OEM setup, it needs to be 0-5 to 0.75mm and the sensor needs to be perfectly square and central to the teeth!!
Check you have resistive spark plugs and resistive HT leads!
All ground wires (4 minimum) need to be wired directly to the engine block.

Open the lid on the ECU and turn the 2 pots anti-clockwise, just turn them 10 complete turns to ensure they are setup correctly.
You say its a V3.57 board, ensure the link is set to VR OUT - TACH SELECT (Assuming its an MS2) Not INV VR!! If its an MS1 set it to INV VR

If its still the same email me a Composite Data log of it cranking over with the coil packs conencted, without them connected and with the VR wired the other way around without the coil packs connected. My email is

phil (at) extraefi.co.uk

thanks
Phil

Thanks phill.

Right have checked everything you said phil and screwed the pots back jumper is (3-4)set to VR OUT I will try and send you my msq .

[Edited on 1/12/13 by ozzy69]

Now i have put the pots back i am now not getting any type of signal for rpm anyone no why this///Now getting a signal but i am confused if i am getting a steady rpm(with plugs out) does this mean i am getting a signal from vr??

[Edited on 1/12/13 by ozzy69]

I'd follow Phil's instructions to the letter. He is the king of MS and has offered to help.

Problem solved and now have spark thanks to phil this man is a star and i really appreciate the time and effort he has spent helping and solving my problem.

So its going??
What was the problem I looked at your msq and although I'm an MS1 man and its an MS2 it looked Ok as far as I could see.

Well i am now getting spark,not really sure but spark plugs where cracked, but she still wont start and i am so sick i feel like throwing in the towel and ripping the whole lot out (ms and engine) i think the car is just a jinx.After getting spark i found out after a day of charging batterys and winding over that it had a low pressure pump so today i got a high pp then after more winding over found that the fuel reg was set to 1 bar now after setting it to 3 bar the starter packed up luckly i had a spare so fitted that and then the car started backfiring throw the inlet now swaped over spark output a and b and she offerd to go but still no joy haha wish ad never seen the thing.

Well you are almost there now so don't give up.

A few beers calmed me down haha I am hoping the the sparky has wired injection bank one into 1 and 2 and bank b into 4 and 3 as it should if i am right be banks 1 into 1 and 4 and bank b into 2 and 3 so fingers crossed this is the problem.

are you giving it a bit of throttle when trying to start? if there is no map on it chances are it will need a bit of throttle to keep it running, the cold weather wont be helping the situation. i spent a good month of evenings reading up on ms before i installed mine, they are not an easy work out of the box solution if you cant be bothered to read up on the subject.

as for injector wiring it wont matter too much, it will just idle a bit rough, the fuel will just sit on the back of the valve until it opens so its not a big deal.

quote:

---

Originally posted by ozzy69
Well i am now getting spark,not really sure but spark plugs where cracked, but she still wont start and i am so sick i feel like throwing in the towel and ripping the whole lot out (ms and engine) i think the car is just a jinx.After getting spark i found out after a day of charging batterys and winding over that it had a low pressure pump so today i got a high pp then after more winding over found that the fuel reg was set to 1 bar now after setting it to 3 bar the starter packed up luckly i had a spare so fitted that and then the car started backfiring throw the inlet now swaped over spark output a and b and she offerd to go but still no joy haha wish ad never seen the thing.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ashg
are you giving it a bit of throttle when trying to start? if there is no map on it chances are it will need a bit of throttle to keep it running, the cold weather wont be helping the situation. i spent a good month of evenings reading up on ms before i installed mine, they are not an easy work out of the box solution if you cant be bothered to read up on the subject.

as for injector wiring it wont matter too much, it will just idle a bit rough, the fuel will just sit on the back of the valve until it opens so its not a big deal.

---

As above, backfire won't be caused by injector timing.
I can run batch (i.e. 1 squirt per revolution for all 4 cylinders) and it works fine.

You must surely be sparking when an inlet valve is open.

Well that has eliminated another thing thanks,i am dreading the timing is out but it has not been touched so should not be but,hears my msq does can any one tell me that it is right for a 2.0 blacktop zetec running gsxr1000 bodie's http://s956.photobucket.com/user/ozzy6969/media/msq_zps125bf6df.png.html?filters[user]=137909182&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=0

Cheer up. Megasquirt is never a plug and play solution unless you buy it pre-wired and pre-prepped for the sensors you have, plus pre-mapped with a base map. It's going to take time and effort. At least if it's using new harnessing it has minimal problems built in - im running an MS on 24 year old OEM wiring. That's not fun

To be honest I'd expect to sink several full weekends into getting an MS running properly for your first time, and probably a tank of fuel or two - that's the point of it almost, to learn how it works and why. If you want a cheap and easy solution, MS isn't it.

Sounds to me like you have the wasted spark reversed. Plus ITBs are rarely easy to get started on a base map.

Injector banks are not really critical. only spark. IF your firing order is 1-2-4-3 you need to have spark A wired into 1 and 4, and spark B wired to 2 and 3. I can switch my injector wiring around between any combination of bank/batch and see almost no difference in running (slightly less stable idle as all 4 off one driver but no different when paired strangely between two drivers).

Well done a compression test today and this is how it went cylinder-1(75psi),2-(25psi),-3-(150psi) and 4-(150psi) just gets better so this was my main problem to start with so engine out job but thanks for all the help from everyone.

Oh dear, not good news! Good luck getting it back up and running, give us a yell if you continue to have issues!

Thanks will do.

Just of the record if my engine is fooked(well bent valves or h gaskit) before reading up about it if i was to turbo the blacktop after fixing it or just getting another engine will this make it alot more harder for me getting ms setup with a turbo'd engine compared to just running gsxr bodies?

Only from a mechanical point of view, from an MS viewpoint it will change your mapping process a little but otherwise it should be no different - you're just increasing the kpa range