Lets just say there are 3 "7" style kit cars.
One has a pinto on MS and throttle bodies.
One has an Carbed R1
One has a ZX9R
All running on 15" wheels and all running "roughly" the same weights.
In a drag race, which would be quickest?
And Overtaking a car from a steady 
speed which one would be left behind?
The one with the pinto, the other two have broken down!
Mel, I like your reasoning...
I recognise those engine combos.....hmmmm
What about a duratec engined one on MS? 
quote:
Originally posted by matt.c
Lets just say there are 3 "7" style kit cars.
All running on 15" wheels and all running "roughly" the same weights.
It is ALWAYS the one driven by the best driver (pls read = Driven by the guy who is willing to blow his car up to win the race...)
ATB 
BEC BEC BEC BEC BEC
R1
ZX9
PINTO
up to 60
complete guess but when you've put it to the test we will see
Yes this is all very well but what about the guy with the Zetec turbo. I think he's getting fed up waiting at the finish line for the other three
to stop their petty squabling.
In a drag race, which would be quickest?
Would have to say the R1 over 1/4 mile followed by ZX9R then Pinto
And Overtaking a car from a steady speed which one would be left behind?
Assuming you mean from cruising speed without being in the right gear to nail it for the bec's! as much as it hurts to say it Pinto First
followed by R1 then ZX9R last
Which year ZX9R / R1 etc 
Seriously though, to be the same weight you've have to have Vanessa Feltz in the passenger seat of the BECs!!! Silly situation!!!
quote:
Originally posted by jollygreengiant
Yes this is all very well but what about the guy with the Zetec turbo. I think he's getting fed up waiting at the finish line for the other three to stop their petty squabling.
BECT BECT BECT
I have followed a Westie R1 with my Indy two up in mine but the Westie just had the driver, now i know the driver af the Westie was not hanging about
but i gave a good run for his money. 
OK. I'd say in a drag race
1st - ZX9R
2nd - R1
3rd - Pinto
The overtaking question is too subjective to determine which would be left behind. My guess is the person who reacted last
Phil
Anyway, the answer is simple....
R1
ZX9R (you really want the ZX14R)
Boat anchor
Assuming you've introduced the artificial removal of power:weight BEC advantage. Otherwise it's just down to power.....
You need to define the Pinto (size, state of tune etc) and what year the engines are. For high speed use power:weight gives way to BHP so again it
depends on which engines.
R1s can chuck out 170Bhp with ease. ZX9Rs are approx 130 IIRC. Pintos are old school technology
Assuming all have similar power output and the gearing is suited to the engine torque and power curve the one that revs the highest and with max
torque within roughly 80% of max revs.
Basically performance is all about work rate which is all about revs which is why the low torque high revving BEC motors out perform high torque low
revving CEC motors on the track and generally in acceleration. Of course the Pinto will be the nicest to drive regularly on public roads.
The old saying is right - it's horses for courses
quote:
Originally posted by BenB
Anyway, the answer is simple....
R1
ZX9R (you really want the ZX14R)
Boat anchor
Assuming you've introduced the artificial removal of power:weight BEC advantage. Otherwise it's just down to power.....
You need to define the Pinto (size, state of tune etc) and what year the engines are. For high speed use power:weight gives way to BHP so again it depends on which engines.
R1s can chuck out 170Bhp with ease. ZX9Rs are approx 130 IIRC. Pintos are old school technology
Could always answer this question once and for all at Santa Pod. But would we have nothing to argue about if we did find out for sure?
I mention Santa Pod as I'll be there on my old race bike 4th July doing a 'run what you brung' day.
This is all about IF, but if all teh cars had the same power to weight and all had simlar torque curves.....and so on it would be down to the driver
and would not be much in it....
so... how long was the piece of string then?????
quote:
Originally posted by roadrunner
quote:
Originally posted by BenB
Anyway, the answer is simple....
R1
ZX9R (you really want the ZX14R)
Boat anchor
Assuming you've introduced the artificial removal of power:weight BEC advantage. Otherwise it's just down to power.....
You need to define the Pinto (size, state of tune etc) and what year the engines are. For high speed use power:weight gives way to BHP so again it depends on which engines.
R1s can chuck out 170Bhp with ease. ZX9Rs are approx 130 IIRC. Pintos are old school technology
I'm affraid the zx9r produces 143 BHP
Well thanks for the replies. I love a bit of banter even if there is no real answer. Time will tell but if i loose i will be prepared to blow it up to
win!
And flak, yes you will prob win when you get that new shiney engine in but only as mine will be in the garage with a rather large hole in the engine.
You know it makes sense mate...
quote:
Originally posted by matt.c
Well thanks for the replies. I love a bit of banter even if there is no real answer. Time will tell but if i lose i will be prepared to blow it up to win!
quote:
Originally posted by matt.c
Time will tell but if i loose i will be prepared to blow it up to win!
You two lads coming to stoneleigh then? Come onnnnnnnnn you know you both want to!
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Hignett
It is ALWAYS the one driven by the best driver (pls read = Driven by the guy who is willing to blow his car up to win the race...)
ATB
R1
Pinto
zx9r
up too 1/8 mile=220 ft
Off the mark, I'd agree the lighter weight and sequential box of a BEC is superior.
...But, the real world is not about 0 to 60 is it.
Here's a vid from Monday's trackday at Teesside kart track. The drag out of the down hill corner on the back straight is from about 30mph
up to just over 100mph. My car is probably near 600k, 170bhp. The Lotus is very light around 400k with fireblade power, 125 bhp? There's not much
in it is there.
BEC vs BEC
And thats both of them passing a ZX12 Bec!
The Pinto would win because the BEC girls would still be doing their make-up.
Cheers
Chris
quote:
Originally posted by Andy D
Off the mark, I'd agree the lighter weight and sequential box of a BEC is superior.
...But, the real world is not about 0 to 60 is it.
Here's a vid from Monday's trackday at Teesside kart track. The drag out of the down hill corner on the back straight is from about 30mph up to just over 100mph. My car is probably near 600k, 170bhp. The Lotus is very light around 400k with fireblade power, 125 bhp? There's not much in it is there.
BEC vs BEC
quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
quote:
Originally posted by Andy D
Off the mark, I'd agree the lighter weight and sequential box of a BEC is superior.
...But, the real world is not about 0 to 60 is it.
Here's a vid from Monday's trackday at Teesside kart track. The drag out of the down hill corner on the back straight is from about 30mph up to just over 100mph. My car is probably near 600k, 170bhp. The Lotus is very light around 400k with fireblade power, 125 bhp? There's not much in it is there.
BEC vs BEC
how much do you have to spend on a pinto to get 170bhp out of it?
quote:
Originally posted by jacko
R1
Pinto
zx9r
up too 1/8 mile=220 ft
quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
You two lads coming to stoneleigh then? Come onnnnnnnnn you know you both want to!
Without buttering your crumpet Andy, or indeed hinting that your car isn't fast, but: You aren't exactly known as the guy who CAN'T
paddle his boat round a race track!!!
quote:
Originally posted by Andy D
Off the mark, I'd agree the lighter weight and sequential box of a BEC is superior.
...But, the real world is not about 0 to 60 is it.
Here's a vid from Monday's trackday at Teesside kart track. The drag out of the down hill corner on the back straight is from about 30mph up to just over 100mph. My car is probably near 600k, 170bhp. The Lotus is very light around 400k with fireblade power, 125 bhp? There's not much in it is there.
BEC vs BEC
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Hignett
Without buttering your crumpet Andy, or indeed hinting that your car isn't fast, but: You aren't exactly known as the guy who CAN'T paddle his boat round a race track!!!
quote:
Originally posted by Andy D
Off the mark, I'd agree the lighter weight and sequential box of a BEC is superior.
...But, the real world is not about 0 to 60 is it.
Here's a vid from Monday's trackday at Teesside kart track. The drag out of the down hill corner on the back straight is from about 30mph up to just over 100mph. My car is probably near 600k, 170bhp. The Lotus is very light around 400k with fireblade power, 125 bhp? There's not much in it is there.
BEC vs BEC
I agree, but i think the driving/driver does come into it in a big way! Hence my first reply to Matt's OP.
Having said that, just add to your point, I think that you have to have an unusually light BEC for the differences that you are on about to show.
For eg - 0 to 60 doesn't apply on a trackday as there isn't a standing start. It's only really 40/70 to 110 that matters as that's
the speed you're exiting the corners. A lighter BEC should be able to corner at a higher speed but that depends on drivers skill and balls, and
more (maybe?) importantly, car setup. I think until you get in to racing these cars then a standard chassis'ed Westy is going to be less of a
handful than your average locost (MK, MAC1, MNR etc) meaning that the BEC advantage is lessoned and lessoned.
Still wouldn't have anything else personally, but do fully appreciate that they aren't the leagues apart that some make out...
(Unless you'r glueing things in your exhaust that whizz round really quick )
ATB
Steve
ps - guess what I'm eating right now!!!
quote:
Originally posted by Andy D
The point I was trying to make, was not about driving as such.. it was comparing the acceleration of the two cars in a straight line down the straight. Take away the 0 bit of 0 to 60, and BECs dont have such an advantage.
Buttered crumpet....daaaaww..
Lovin this by the way, Andy/Peter!
PINTO ENGINE NOISE ON TRACK WITH NO OVERLAYED MUSIC
[Edited on 25/4/09 by Steve Hignett]
What a load of pish this thread is
It doesn't matter which car is fastest cause when you get to the pub to discuss it the cec's will all have reversed into their parking
spaces and it's at this point the race will be won by a cec.