edit - speeling correction
[Edited on 8/3/11 by mookaloid]
So here I am, a Cop of 20+ years.....
To put the record straight.....
Since the 13th April 1987 - 11% of my salary has gone into my pension. I started on £7800 a year and for the first four years received family income
benefit.
In the last 23 years .....
Assaulted 4 times that I can recall. Spat on lots, bitten once or twice + plenty attempts..
Attacked with - fencepost,knives, stool, hammer, spade, screwdriver, glass, shoe (s) , thats before I count all the times I have arrested criminals
when they have kicked off (very common). I have encountered guns personally on two ocaasions, thankfully the people we stopped decided not to shoot
us, the other incident they ran away and dropped their revolver.
PS - Just remebered the biker who filled me in when I was 23, stopped him for riding on a footpath. wearing his helmet, he grabbed my hair and
alternated between nutting me with the lid, and banging my face off his brass door knocker. When convicted I got £25 compensation, which I got in 25 x
£1 cheques, payable over 24 months which stretched out to nearly 36 months because he didnt pay it. My hair since then has never been long enough to
grab...
I have been due to strikes an ..
Ambulance driver
Fire service
Prison officer
All roles absolutely nothing to do with looking after communities, just expected by the government of the day as they fronted up their respective
unions.
I have had my house burgled by criminals who followed me home, and broke in when I had gone to work and my wife was in the house with the kids. This
was because my team focused on them and gave them a hard time.
A car thief tried to run me down when we disturbed them screwing a car, My Police car has been rammed by stolen cars on 3 occassions. An Audi Quattro,
a Golf GTI and a Astra GTE.
But as you read, can I please point out I am not writing for sympathy, this is my career/job choice and as such I expect to be on the shitty end of
societies anger and frustration.
I have no degree, I have school/college qualifications and do not see myself as well paid.
I can look forward to my pension with only 6 years before I retire, a pension I have paid for without any top ups from local Authority.
I have worked all the shift patterns you could dream up to shaft a family life.
I worked for a Tory government in the late 80s, then a Labour government, and now the current arrangement I didnt vote for.
Ive seen and heard all the bullshit about reducing paperwork for cops since 1987, NONE - NONE of the policies have made a jot of difference.
The only saving grace from all the current bashing from the press and government, well after they have stopped paying me overtime (when I
occassionally work it) I still have a job in these tough times.
I am in receipt of a competency payment, which Labour gave us for some reason, they also paid certain officers more money to work in certain posts.
These were seen by all as divisive and uneccessary. The only branch of Policing which should be in receipt of enhancement, are the public facing 24/7
posts, where your more likely to get murdered ! the rest (me included) who are not public facing (too often) should just recieve a decent income
without stupid divisive "perks". These posts always suffer with high turnover due to the high pressure & stress of these posts.
My pay will be reduced by around £150 a month, I will deal with it, at least I will have a job, Cops working for the Met Police in central London
stand to lose £4000 a year. Try buying a London flat on £24,000 a year. Not quite sure how that one will pan out.
The only incentive to get me out of bed when work rings me because someone has gone sick is the prospect of payment, if the current government cut me
recieving monetary reward for short notice working - I will stay in bed.
Dont know why the rest of you go to work before you start having a pop, but I go to work to earn money to pay bills, take my wife out for a pint and
try and enjoy my life. I didnt join the Police to work for time off in lieue (which I cannot take anyway).
When the police made me a prison officer after the Strangeways Prison riots, one of the inmates told me - " I hate detectives, but you lot
(uniform cops) keep the jungle in hand when Im in here" He was making direct reference to the care of his wife while he was in prison, folks it
is a jungle out there and it isnt getting any better...I have never forgotten his words.
I doff my hat to the families struggling to cope with the massive rise in day to day living costs , God Bless.
[Edited on 8/3/11 by T66]
Big respect for you. Sounds like the police are going to get a hard time of it, funny they didnt mention that in the manifesto?
Amen Ivan!
As you know, I'm no longer in 'the-job', but after nigh on 20 years of it, I can fully empathize with those that still are!
Each government from the early-90's forward has shafted the Police. They've allowed bureaucracy to spiral to unmanageable levels and
they've allowed ridiculous human-rights / diversity led issues to undermine the role of the front-line Officer (particularly in relation to
sorting out anti-social behavior and investigating 'real crimes' ).
End-result = low moral + poor public service (despite many Officers best intentions)!
Many folk don't know that the Police cannot withhold their labour (strike). So they have no negotiating powers with the Government. They just
change the rules and it's tough-sh*t... !!!
Most folk also don't realize that Police Officers pay 11% of their wage into their pension fund. It's not the gold-lined gratuity that many
think it is! I understand that many Cops joining in the last 10 years have opted-out of the pension-scheme because they simply can't afford to
pay it and still put food on their families table!
I hope this one doesn't descend into a 'bad apples' debate... yes, they exist, but every job has it's arseholes! Most of the boys
and girls do a very good job in very trying circumstances.
Wish my misses drank pints.
quote:
Originally posted by emsfactory
Wish my misses drank pints.
.
Hi
I have every sympathy for your situation and concerns for its future.
When I was a nipper my family impressed on me that if I needed help, 'ask a policeman'. That advice I've passed on to my, (now adult),
kids.
I feel the Police force should be held in higher regard to that which it apears to be nowadays - after all, how many of us would undertake their
responsibilities?
Before anyone gets on the speed camera case - I'd like to state my view, if I'm caught speeding I accept that I am breaking the law and as
such deserved to be punished. If penalising speeding motorists is a means to fund the force then thats fine by me as long as this does not detract
from placing focus on other areas of concern.
Regards Mick
quote:
Originally posted by Mix
Hi
I have every sympathy for your situation and concerns for its future.
When I was a nipper my family impressed on me that if I needed help, 'ask a policeman'. That advice I've passed on to my, (now adult), kids.
I feel the Police force should be held in higher regard to that which it apears to be nowadays - after all, how many of us would undertake their responsibilities?
Before anyone gets on the speed camera case - I'd like to state my view, if I'm caught speeding I accept that I am breaking the law and as such deserved to be punished. If penalising speeding motorists is a means to fund the force then thats fine by me as long as this does not detract from placing focus on other areas of concern.
Regards Mick
That really worries me - how can we expect the police to stay honest, protect us from the bad guys and keep us safe if we don't pay them enough
to live?
edit - speeling correction
[Edited on 8/3/11 by mookaloid]
Hi
Maybe I'm old fashioned - but I feel the benefit of the 'Bobby on the beat' is sadly underestimated these days.
Regards Mick
quote:
Originally posted by mookaloid
That really worries me - how can we expect the police to stay honest, protect us from the bad guys and keep us safe if we don't pay them enough to live?
quote:
Originally posted by Mix
Hi
Maybe I'm old fashioned - but I feel the benefit of the 'Bobby on the beat' is sadly underestimated these days.
Regards Mick
Hi
We are singing from the same song sheet - the most accurate measure of police efficiency should be the lack of crime, ie prevention is better than
cure not the ability to catch the perpretator after the fact.
regards Mick
sorry deleted my own post as too many people will over react
quote:
Originally posted by AndyW
sorry deleted my own post as too many people will over react
quote:
Once the police forces of this country could have relied on fierce public support
against cuts in their funds and manpower. Now I think they will get very little.
For years I have said they should sell the helicopters and fast cars and get back on foot.
I said they should reopen police stations and man them.
I said they should remember that the middle classes are their friends.
And almost all I heard in return was moaning that I was anti-police and unfair to a fine body of men.
Piffle
quote:
When I wrote about the just nature of the police's pay demand, I had little sympathy from readers.
The tone of the complaints was consistent. They are good at catching errant drivers,
but less good at burglaries and muggings.
They are invisible on our unsafe streets. When encountering the public, many are charmless, even rude.
They enforce not the law, but political correctness.
In short, the law-abiding public regard them as not on their side.
I know quite a few guys that have joined up in the last few years, so I'm hearing alot about this just now...
one of my best mates just got his foot in the door before they stopped recruting all together up here
but he only joined the force properly as his previous job was as a civilian custody officer in the police cells and he couldn't get transfered
out of it because no one else wanted the job - after 2 - 3 years he'd had enough of being assulted, cut, spat at by every scumbag that was
dragged throught the doors (and having to get tested for HIV, hepatitis etc. every other month) it wasn't much fun 
in the end it was so bad he took an 8k/year pay cut just to get out 
(and he loves working for the police in general)
all I can say is - at the end of the day he's getting a better deal than his brother in the marines
[Edited on 8/3/2011 by mcerd1]
And the BBC have just said....
If a police officer works on a Sunday, he receives double time.....
Not true, if its my rostered day at work I get the standard hourly rate.
If my Sunday rest day is cancelled with less than 5 days notice I get double time.
If my Sunday rest day is cancelled with between 5-14 days notice I get time and a half
If my Sunday rest day is cancelled with more than 30 days notice I get my rest day re-rostered.
Where was all this talk when the engineers, ship workers, mill workers and coal miners were taking pay freezes, pay cuts and job losses at the minimum redundancy payments?
quote:
Originally posted by Rod Ends
quote:
Once the police forces of this country could have relied on fierce public support
against cuts in their funds and manpower. Now I think they will get very little.
For years I have said they should sell the helicopters and fast cars and get back on foot.
I said they should reopen police stations and man them.
I said they should remember that the middle classes are their friends.
And almost all I heard in return was moaning that I was anti-police and unfair to a fine body of men.
Piffle
www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1313247/PETER-HITCHENS-Will-turn-dust-ashes-just-like-Soviet-roubles.html
quote:
When I wrote about the just nature of the police's pay demand, I had little sympathy from readers.
The tone of the complaints was consistent. They are good at catching errant drivers,
but less good at burglaries and muggings.
They are invisible on our unsafe streets. When encountering the public, many are charmless, even rude.
They enforce not the law, but political correctness.
In short, the law-abiding public regard them as not on their side.
www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/simonheffer/3554319/Why-majority-see-the-police-as-their-enemy.html
Not wishing to make light of police woes but many nurses face similar daily abuse from the public and are poorly paid for the work they do. If my wife
works extra hours she does not get paid but has time owed to her. Trouble is being short staffed
she often never gets the time back. We all have to accept that the country is screwed and just get on with life.
Hi guys i sympathse with anybody whos having a hard time as many are in every industry but have to say public sympathy for offices will be limeted not thier fault but if you get robbed no police as thier bosses have them all out trying to catch somebody on a mobile etc cutting numbers wont make any difference to use in rural areas we have had no police presance for 20 years saying that still in your corner lads
Ps to be fair i thing its just a maggie clone having his own back
these cuts are too deep and far too fast.
i agree with the first post wholehartedly. i left after 18 months for much th same reasons back in mid 1990's
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
Amen Ivan!
Each government from the early-90's forward has shafted the Police.
quote:
Originally posted by designer
Where was all this talk when the engineers, ship workers, mill workers and coal miners were taking pay freezes, pay cuts and job losses at the minimum redundancy payments?
Sounds a tough and thankless job.
Chin up - the country needs good quality, hard working public servants in all areas.
One question you didn't answer - does your head go all the way to the top of that hat?
a well written first post. I dont have as long in as you but working in inner london boroughs for 13 years, i have seen a thing or 2.
for those that are raising the issue of road policing and the fact that nothing happens when you are robbed but you get stuck on for speeding, you
will be pleased to know that the traffic unit has been one of the most cut units, especially in the Met, i dont know about the rest of the country
but the met have half as many traffic officers as they did when i joined, which is why you never see traffic cars on the road.
GMP has cut it's traffic right back too.
I think there are two issues here,
1) how we run our police service - targetting ticketting / heavy paperwork loads / less time to 'prevent' crime and be a part of the
community
2) how much we pay our public servants, in this case the police.
On the first point i think we're all basically agreed, we've got it wrong.
On the second, i'm less sure. I'm out of work and looking. At the moment i'm applying for jobs paying 30% less than i was on and
struggling. If i'm taking a pay cut, the X / Y / Z are taking pay cuts - why aren't the police / insert other industry here?
Reality is, you pay the minimum you can get away with. If we end up paying so little we run out of police the gov. will increase the pay and import
staff from other countries (look at what they've done with the nurses for an example). If industry pays so little it can't employ anyone it
will increase how much it pays (or the industry dies, as the police industry can't die salaries will increase). The other side of this is the
gov. are trying to control the country. If it suddenly increases police salaries by 20% there will be unprecedented demand from other public services
for an increase. Private industry will find staff joining the police, therefore they'll have to do something to temp them back and we've got
rampant inflation aka we're screwed.
Reality is there is a balance between all jobs ...... i'm not saying its correct, but there is.
Whats got my 'goat' at the moment is the rule XYZ that means they're going to compulsory retire police officers with 30 years service.
Some people are in their early 50's with years of good service to give and 30 years experience. Mad ........ but they've got to make cuts
and senior officers think this is the best way. I've no idea how the police service works, i've no idea of the issues they are facing, these
people are the experts, why should i question their decision?
quote:
Originally posted by Antnicuk
a well written first post. I dont have as long in as you but working in inner london boroughs for 13 years, i have seen a thing or 2.
for those that are raising the issue of road policing and the fact that nothing happens when you are robbed but you get stuck on for speeding, you will be pleased to know that the traffic unit has been one of the most cut units, especially in the Met, i dont know about the rest of the country but the met have half as many traffic officers as they did when i joined, which is why you never see traffic cars on the road.
All you can hope is that there are no cops about when someone twats the CEO of Barclays and the other bankers who caused all this crap.
I guess the police like the fire service are stuck as long as demand for jobs stays so high. The goverment will never do anything while there are so many people applying for only a handful of jobs. Demand and supply I guess.
"errr are you comparing these militant people who we kept going with public money long after their industries were viable economic propositions
with the Police - who cannot legally go on strike?"
I worked in Industry all my working life and the answer is no. I compare it to the honest hard working person, in a factory, in a mill, down the
mines, with wife and kids who lost their jobs, and homes, because of a multitude of reasond, and who never did have the guarantee of a well paid job,
with overtime, early retirement and salary related pension.
You know these people, the ones on basic state pension! The ones that made this country wealthy, before the bureaucrat’s and public purse took it all
away for themselves!
quote:
Originally posted by norfolkluego
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
Amen Ivan!
Each government from the early-90's forward has shafted the Police.
I think they've shafted everbody EXCEPT mindless thugs, the workshy, bogus assylum seekers, would be terrorists living on benefits, Health and Safety Nazis, the 'Green' Brigade, serial complainers, opponents of free speech, twats who abuse our Armed Forces, mums with 28 kids by 28 fathers, you name it, if you don't deserve it you'll get it, if you do you won't
1st post in a very long time, was just on here as i'm about to fire up my car (tiger supercat) for the first time in a while, but I saw this and
it made me think. So here goes...
It's all about supply and demand. The police may not be very well paid (like many professions), but there are enough incentives (pay, perks,
reputation, image, etc) to mean that the police never have any trouble in recruiting. My understanding is that recruitment freezes have not been
uncommon in the past few years as the police are so well manned so why would any government want to pay police any more when it is clearly such a
popular profession to get into (and stay in)?
I appreciate that police are, in the main, not paid well, but I am sure there are many who sit behind desks, etc, that are overpaid for what they do,
whereas those who actually are 'on the front line' are underpaid. I think the pay structure is what really needs sorting.
As for facing the torrent of abuse/ danger that police face, I really feel for them. Why do we allow it to happen? The higher echelons of police/
government need to put procedures in place to support the police to ensure those that assault police/ cause aggro, etc, do not get away with it. I
lived in Germany for a few years and nobody messed with German police, because you knew your life was not worth it. Until people realise that they
can't get away with gobbing off/ assaulting police then it will continue. Just like, I suppose, footballers and managers gobbing off at referees
- If they were red carded more or fined it would soon stop.
Just must 10 pence worth anyway.
I can, maybe, attempt to answer that last bit. There are so few of us on the front line parading on for a shift, like 7,8 or 9 on a very good day to
cover a vast area, that if you lock up for little things like drunk and disorderly or public order when robberies and stabbings are common place, then
you're off the streets and you're pressured from above then to get back out quickly and even looked down on sometimes, depending on the
crime.
The amount of beaurocracy is phenominal for which someone in an office is more than ready at all times to complain at you (via e mails!) and try to
take your legs by copying bosses in. Then one of the biggest hurdles is the CPS. Just trying to get a charge any more is double hard and then if it is
authorised, the courts don't react so there's no lesson learned in the end anyway.
So in the end the underclass are happy to behave in their own little unique way as they do, knowing that the punishment is never going to fit the
crime.
The country is in a mess and the pot is dry.you chose your career the same as i chose mine,your getting shafted now i got shafted years ago,as did
millions of others,i think you've had a bloody good run myself,no fear of redundancy,paycuts,had sick pay etc up til now. nothing you can do
about it,its shoite but its life!
i just expect even less chance of being let off with a bollocking in the future!
I have to say although you put it rather bluntly, I am of that thinking too now. It's my career and if I don't like it I can always bugger
off (albeit at the risk of bankrupting myself). I think maybe it's too many years of being shafted that I've learned to accept it.
But..
Unfortunately, it's you (and me because I'm still a member of the public and still allowed to complain to the cops too) who are going to
suffer as a result which is truly the biggest impact for me (and the big spur behind me choosing the job. If you can't beat them join them) which
wouldn't have happened when I was a supermarket worker or garage worker etc.
The biggest fear for the police nowadays is a bloated bottleless fear of litigation, management are terrified of bad press.
And fair point its the career I chose, so I expect to get that thrown back in my face, HOWEVER I will manage through this "shafting" process
you desrcibe, as I am not as poorly paid as you may think.
My concerns are the manner and severity in which this government intend to chop everything up, there are far more folk with far less income than me,
and it is them who should concern all of us.
If the current pay cuts go through, I will.....
1) Lose £240 a month from my pay
2) Pay more into my pension , ontop of the 11% I have paid for 23 years
3) Look forward to now retiring at 60.
If there are any butchers, bakers, office staff, drivers, pilots, librarians can list when they were last filled in at work, stabbed or shot , spat
at, had their home burgled because they were a butcher,baker, etc etc list below please.
Instead of popping at the "gold plated" pension schemes as described by our wonderful press , and all the "perks" I apparently
recieve, try offering some support instead of telling me its my turn. This chestnut of reform has been avoided by the last 2 governments I have worked
for, this one has at least started reforming the service, and some of it I agree with, as reform is needed. Nothing should ever stand still, any line
of business needs to look forward at all times, and improve its delivery. But service delivery cannot be improved by reducing officer numbers - it
doesnt make sense.
Successive governments have shafted the police for years, it is now subject to massive scrutiny, not just by the press, but the human rights act,
health and safety and freedom of information acts. Every minute decision made on every piece of the job is subject to this scrutiny, never have cops
had such a shitty stick to hold on to....
I didnt post this thread for sympathy, my purpose was to highlight the current threat to frontline policing.
We have a navy with no ships for the Queens regatta next year, we have no RAF jets left, and an overstretched Army busting its gut, over extended with
too few of them to deal with whats on the table.
But as long as you have been shafted before mate , that makes it ok doesnt it !? Go read my original post
Not everything you read in the press is true ! british policing is under massive threat.
And Im not talking about perks,pay or overtime -
I have great sympathy with the police and think the cuts are potentially dangerous, but one of the problems the police have is that previous
governments have used them against other groups of workers, like the miners in the 80's, when whole industries were closed down for political
reasons.
The police rightly do as they are told by our politicians, but it doesn't stop resentment building up when they are used in ways they
shouldn't be [like preventing freedom of movement].
This manifests itself as a lack of symapthy when the police are facing cuts.
Stu
[Edited on 13/3/11 by whitestu]
The Police are not well paid!!
Compared to?
Try living on the minimum wage, which many do we are just as competant as the majority of Policemen.
quote:
Originally posted by designer
The Police are not well paid!!
Compared to?
Try living on the minimum wage, which many do we are just as competant as the majority of Policemen.