I know that I might be taking a risk posting this on a forum dedicated to petrol heads, but here goes anyway...

Apparently our wonderful government is planning on dropping climate change from the National Curriculum for children under 14. Climate change is one of the biggest issues facing society today and if it were not for the fact that the impacts are mostly going to effect the less well off, people who live in poor countries and subsequent generations rather than ours, governments across the world would be taking it more seriously. However, because its all going to happen outside of the political election cycle and is not an immediate vote winner its keeps getting put off.

I cannot see how it is remotely justified to drop such an important subject from the curriculum. Anyway, there is an on-line petition at the link below so please sign it.


climate change petition

Cue posts about it all being a conspiracy and climate change not being real because it's snowing today

As long as they replace the lessons with reading and writing people will be able to read about these things lots of children seem to leave school less well educated than older generations very sad we fail our kids like this

I'm delighted that they have dropped a subject which is influenced as much by politics as it is science, and which is still chock full of loose theories and what-ifs.

Had there been a petition for dropping it I would have signed it in a second. I also agree with Ali, subjects like this MUST take a back seat to the staple subjects of a school education whose standards appear to be slipping.

[Edited on 22/3/13 by MikeRJ]

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Originally posted by MikeRJ
I'm delighted that they have dropped a subject which is influenced as much by politics as it is science, and which is still chock full of loose theories and what-ifs.

Had there been a petition for dropping it I would have signed it in a second. I also agree with Ali, subjects like this MUST take a back seat to the staple subjects of a school education whose standards appear to be slipping.

[Edited on 22/3/13 by MikeRJ]

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By following that logic, why bother teaching physics, chemistry, biology, history, geography (or most of maths other than counting for that matter) etc etc.

We used to have an economy based on good engineering and science - where are the new scientists and engineers going to come from if we just teach the basics?

I think it should continued to be taught as part of a wider syllabus. It is not like they are going to do a dedicated 'climate change class' - it surely must have been taught as part of other subjects. I think it is important to teach our kids about climate change, so they know what to call it when they blame us for the consequences in 50 years time....

It is real, and it is happening, and it is our fault - FACT!

Would seem sensible for it to be studied as part of the Geography syllabus, but given everything else that has to be crammed in it would be a small part.

Look at the effect of one volcano going off.... We aren't helping but the earths climate is so far out of our hands it's unbelievable.

some 20 years ago scientists were predicting an ice age,then about 10 years ago we would all boil in a heat wave,now it,s the climate is changing.....just like it has since the earth was formed.
as someone else pointed out,vulcano,s cause a lot more polution in one day than man.
roll on summer is all i say

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Originally posted by MikeRJ
I'm delighted that they have dropped a subject which is influenced as much by politics as it is science, and which is still chock full of loose theories and what-ifs.

[Edited on 22/3/13 by MikeRJ]

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Signed on behalf of my kids!

We are a couple of thousand years overdue for an ice age.

Anthropogenic climate change - being changes in the climate as a result of man's activities and the reason we have some really stupid taxes is utter bollocks.

ATB

Simon

Amazing how this subject polarises opinion. Fwiw, volcanos have no effect on climate change in the long run because it is a natural effect balanced by the carbon being trapped in rocks continually.

I personally can't understand how people could possibly think that we have no effect on climate, given the huge scale of everything that man does. We've released millions of tonnes of carbon dioxide in the last century.

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Originally posted by Confused but excited.

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Originally posted by MikeRJ
I'm delighted that they have dropped a subject which is influenced as much by politics as it is science, and which is still chock full of loose theories and what-ifs.

[Edited on 22/3/13 by MikeRJ]

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Have you had a look outside? It's supposed to be Spring!

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Originally posted by JoelP
Amazing how this subject polarises opinion. Fwiw, volcanos have no effect on climate change in the long run because it is a natural effect balanced by the carbon being trapped in rocks continually.

I personally can't understand how people could possibly think that we have no effect on climate, given the huge scale of everything that man does. We've released millions of tonnes of carbon dioxide in the last century.

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Ignornece is bliss cause its not going to stop me booting the F27 on a sunny day. Lets all blame china.

More important is that teachers teach not just the NC but a much wider set of ideas and values. I know I ramble on in front of classes about all sorts of stuff, and getting kids to THINK and QUESTION is about the most important thing I can do. So chaps, stop the head burying, and hope the kids at school now are going to help solve a few of the problems we have caused the planet. Bear in mind the exponential rate at which we are burning fossil fuels and have been for the past 70?? years.
So far the solutions have not got any closer, and we are all getting more demanding.

Will I sign the petition? that one no. Make it one to expand the breadth things taught and stop teaching to exams, then yes

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Originally posted by teegray19
Look at the effect of one volcano going off.... We aren't helping but the earths climate is so far out of our hands it's unbelievable.

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Well kids cannot read and write spell etc, when they leave school nowadays so we must be getting it right chaps

Can't see any evidence of global warming from where I'm sitting. Quite the opposite in fact. There's too much political opportunism involved in even debating it and Britain is too insignificant to make any difference anyway.

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Originally posted by teegray19
Look at the effect of one volcano going off.... We aren't helping but the earths climate is so far out of our hands it's unbelievable.

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The man made contribution to any shift in global weather patterns isn't big in comparisons to other factors, it worries me that any scientist who questions anything to do with the fashionable view on climate change gets accused of either practising bad science or being the spawn of the devil.

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Originally posted by teegray19
Lets all blame china.

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On the education side of things it bothers me that we are moving away from wanting kids to think towards wanting them to parrot facts. However I can see how this is attractive to our ruling classes . A population that either lacks the critical ability to think and challenge or is so indebted as a result of their education costs that they dare not cause a fuss is pretty attractive if you are running the country.

The move back toward the need to parrot
facts also somehow fails to take account of the explosion of readily available mobile information. Do I need to have memorised the capital of Botswana? I'd argue not when I can whip my phone out and google it. Survival for wealthy countries like ours will more likely be down to us creating bright, creative, collaborative, inventive people, rather than people who can just recite a poem or do their times tables.

[Edited on 23/3/13 by swanny]

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Originally posted by Norfolkluegojnr

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Originally posted by teegray19
Lets all blame china.

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Problem solved!

Which argument turns the sun up?

I don't feel we'll enough informed to comment, and I bet most people know nothing other than the propaganda from tabloid rags, and bob dole.

On the face of it I'm all for protecting our environment, but this one stinks of profiteering through scaremongering - a standard political stance these days.

Someone give me hard evidence either way and I'll gladly get behind you.

Or let's just blame china.

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I still find it utterly staggering that so called educated people still think climate change caused by humans is a myth!!! Maybe it's too much reading of the Daily Mail :0 So yes, lets keep it in the curriculum.

While most of us on here won't be affected by it, our children and grandchildren most certainly will. I'm sure they will look back at what we did as a society with a mixture of angry and incredulity.

As others have said though what we do in the UK will change nothing as long as China and India keep on their current course, though we can hardly encourage them to do better unless we are doing something ourselves.

The only way our society as we know it will be saved will be if scientists come up with a way to deal with it, as the politicians certainly never will.

Supposed green energy companies. Wind farms, solar energy panels etc.

Why subsidise it if it works so well? Wind turbines are notoriously rubbish yet we continue to build them...

Oil companies can continue to scare the world with the lack of resources to keep their prices high - energy companies can charge more and more whilst we foot the bill for a poor infrastructure and having to import electricity and gas.

Governments tax us all and reap the benefits of high prices and scared public bodies.

It's all connected. Either that or no sleep from a 12 month old is turning me into the 'Aliens' meme guy.

Just think, if there had been an enviromental lobby around at the time the Industrial Revolution got started none of us would have cars to drive at all.

Cheers

Fred W B

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Originally posted by Jasper
I still find it utterly staggering that so called educated people still think climate change caused by humans is a myth!!! Maybe it's too much reading of the Daily Mail

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Climate change, religion, CEC or BEC, Apple or Android, politics - always guaranteed to stir up a good argument

Some good reading for anybody interested in the climate change debate:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Vanishing-Face-Gaia-Warning/dp/0141039256/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1364038813&sr=8-1

James Lovelock is the epitome of the genius British scientist working in a shed - he came up with the instrument to measure CFC's that lead to the Nobel prize for the discovery of the ozone hole and the banning of CFC's. It's a very good if very depressing read. He hates the hippy greenies and politicians that love wind farms etc, he's a proponent of self sufficiency in energy through nuclear power.

[Edited on 23/3/13 by Jasper]

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Originally posted by Jasper
Climate change, religion, CEC or BEC, Apple or Android, politics - always guaranteed to stir up a good argument

Some good reading for anybody interested in the climate change debate:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Vanishing-Face-Gaia-Warning/dp/0141039256/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1364038813&sr=8-1

James Lovelock is the epitome of the genius British scientist working in a shed - he came up with the instrument to measure CFC's that lead to the Nobel prize for the discovery of the ozone hole and the banning of CFC's. It's a very good if very depressing read. He hates the hippy greenies and politicians that love wind farms etc, he's a proponent of self sufficiency in energy through nuclear power.

[Edited on 23/3/13 by Jasper]

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It seems climate change fills the "God shaped hole" in people which is why no sensible debate can be held on it. Fail to follow the party line and you don't get a research grant, publish data that supports any other possible explanation for climate change (such as sun spots) and you get nailed to the floor and stamped on. Remember what happened at the University of East Anglia ? where data that didn't fit the alarmist line was either deleted or conveniently unavailable.
It all reminds me of the Catholic Church's treatment of Galileo Galilei

The fact it seems this planet is going through a shift in weather patterns it has many times in the past and will continue to do in future. Is this change due to man made global warming ? Well we know there is a warming but the hard science appears to show the man made contribution is tiny. It was not so long ago that climate scientist were very concerned over global cooling due to particulate air pollution.

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Originally posted by MikeRJ

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Originally posted by Jasper
Climate change, religion, CEC or BEC, Apple or Android, politics - always guaranteed to stir up a good argument

Some good reading for anybody interested in the climate change debate:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Vanishing-Face-Gaia-Warning/dp/0141039256/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1364038813&sr=8-1

James Lovelock is the epitome of the genius British scientist working in a shed - he came up with the instrument to measure CFC's that lead to the Nobel prize for the discovery of the ozone hole and the banning of CFC's. It's a very good if very depressing read. He hates the hippy greenies and politicians that love wind farms etc, he's a proponent of self sufficiency in energy through nuclear power.

[Edited on 23/3/13 by Jasper]

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And just to provide some balance, the same author also admits he was being alarmist when he wrote that book.

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Originally posted by twybrow
I think it should continued to be taught as part of a wider syllabus. It is not like they are going to do a dedicated 'climate change class' - it surely must have been taught as part of other subjects. I think it is important to teach our kids about climate change, so they know what to call it when they blame us for the consequences in 50 years time....

It is real, and it is happening, and it is our fault - FACT!

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Don't worry, God will take care of it.


This would be ludicrous if not so widely believed. I cannot for the life of me understand why this is such a polorising subject. Just because I like driving cars, tinkering with them, and generally being environmentally irresponsible, doesn't mean it's a good thing. Accept what you are, but don't deny it. We are all to blame.

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Don't worry, God will take care of it.


This would be ludicrous if not so widely believed. I cannot for the life of me understand why this is such a polorising subject. Just because I like driving cars, tinkering with them, and generally being environmentally irresponsible, doesn't mean it's a good thing. Accept what you are, but don't deny it. We are all to blame

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Should we reduce our use of fossil fuels? Yes for many reasons.
Is global warming the most pressing of those reasons ? Probably not.
Can we trust the findings of all climate change scientists ? On past form definitely not.
Are we going about reducing our dependence on fossil fuels the right way? No generating electricity from wind or solar is an expensive joke, hydro is reaching the limit of available sites, the only way left is build more nuclear and use it more efficiently.

The behaviour of the climate change lobby has not been constructive it has not practised good science.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/6679082/Climate-change-this-is-the-worst-scientific-scandal-of-our-generation.html

Why was I shovelling snow off the drive this morning? Just asking.

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Originally posted by swanny

The move back toward the need to parrot facts also somehow fails to take account of the explosion of readily available mobile information. Do I need to have memorised the capital of Botswana? I'd argue not when I can whip my phone out and google it. Survival for wealthy countries like ours will more likely be down to us creating bright, creative, collaborative, inventive people, rather than people who can just recite a poem or do their times tables.

[Edited on 23/3/13 by swanny]

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Climate change has been here since the planet was formed, and will never stop.
Our problem is greed, that's all of us. When our intelligence is greater than our greed , then we may truly have chance to look after our planet.

Until we advance enough our children have far more important things to learn.

Another question.

How does a teacher who drives a Toyota Prius teach this subject

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Originally posted by Jon Ison
Why was I shovelling snow off the drive this morning? Just asking.

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Originally posted by Slimy38

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Originally posted by swanny

The move back toward the need to parrot facts also somehow fails to take account of the explosion of readily available mobile information. Do I need to have memorised the capital of Botswana? I'd argue not when I can whip my phone out and google it. Survival for wealthy countries like ours will more likely be down to us creating bright, creative, collaborative, inventive people, rather than people who can just recite a poem or do their times tables.

[Edited on 23/3/13 by swanny]

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That is very true, there is more information on the web than any one human being could possibly possess. Unfortunately a lot of people lack the basic skills to be able to access that information and interpret it correctly. As an example, I had the misfortune to visit a Burger King while their tills were down, I asked for two £1.99 burgers and the waitress needed a calculator to add them up and figure out the change from a five pound note. And we all see the thousands of posts where the author doesn't know the difference between there, their and they're. If basic maths and english are beyond most people, what hope have they got for dealing with a subject like climate change. Tell them the average temperature will rise 10% and they'd have no idea what that actually means.

So I agree with Ali, this type of lesson is better replaced with the three R's as they were/are known, bring back at least some 'parrot facts', and leave the climate change research to Mr Google.

[Edited on 24/3/13 by Slimy38]

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It seems climate change fills the "God shaped hole" in people which is why no sensible debate can be held on it. Fail to follow the party line and you don't get a research grant, publish data that supports any other possible explanation for climate change (such as sun spots) and you get nailed to the floor and stamped on. Remember what happened at the University of East Anglia ? where data that didn't fit the alarmist line was either deleted or conveniently unavailable.
It all reminds me of the Catholic Church's treatment of Galileo Galilei

The fact it seems this planet is going through a shift in weather patterns it has many times in the past and will continue to do in future. Is this change due to man made global warming ? Well we know there is a warming but the hard science appears to show the man made contribution is tiny. It was not so long ago that climate scientist were very concerned over global cooling due to particulate air pollution.


as above,in a nutshell,well done BT ! (not the phone co).
roll on summer!

Put me down as a skeptic on climate change - haven't seen any good science on it yet.

However I am a true environmentalist by realising that mankind is most probably going to end up destroying nature and the planet in the end, unless an asteroid intervenes, as a result we chose not to have children so we won't contribute to the overpopulation of the world in future generations and my pollution ends with me. As a result I can drive my 6.3 liter Cobra and other gas guzzlers with a clear conscience and ignore pleas to cut down on electricity use.

All you breeders out there should immediately sell your cars and walk or cycle instead to compensate for the ongoing damage you and yours will do to the planet by stripping it's resources for your survival. Oh, and take your houses off the grid as well and become Vegans to cut down on cow gas emissions as well.