I don't normally watch FI, prefering to spend the time in the garage, but I watched quali today.
Am I the only one who thinks MS may have messed up that last corner on purpose, to spoil the laps of those still on their last flyer - Witness the
grins in the Ferrari pit as it happened?
Cheers
Fred W B
Looked rather suspect to me too, the way he went in tight, turned a bit, then straightened up again to ensure he was nosing into the barrier.
He also looked rather sheepish in the press conference too.....
I think the siht is on the way to fan as we speak!
I hope so, but Im sure the FIA will step in and ensure Ferrari doesnt get punished 
Yes they probably will try to protect them , but there seems to be a total disgust at what happened amongst the whole pitlane.
I reckon if the data shows he was playing silly people they will have to nail him, but you never know it could have been a real accident. I dont
think!
[Edited on 27/5/06 by stevec]
Yep, I hope they'll see this as too much of a "crime" to ignore
As I mentioned above, as much as anything I think the press conference gives it away. Schumacher was babbling, mixing his words and rather hesitant
when explaining his side of the story, which to me stinks of a guilty concience when compared to his usual demeanor in press conferences and
interviews.
Add that to the timing of the "accident", the odd line and steering input that led to him being stranded against the barrier, and the fact
that his car wasn't damaged in the slightest all adds up to me sniffing out a rather smelly rat.
[Edited on 27/5/06 by ChrisGamlin]
Spot on, As soon as the first question was asked he looked down to the desk, sure sign of guilt.
My opinion is that it doesn't matter if he did it on purpose or not.
The question is, that he did something wrong, and as normally in life when you do something wrong in life you get punished! its that simple, speeding
in the pitlane if you do it wrong you get bill and warning...
The effidence:
when watching the video you see at sertain moment, that he looses the brakes, you see the car roll back a very small amount, but then he rapidly
pushes the brakes again.
then in 2seconds laters you see him stalling the car...(while in gear)
I'm sure if he did loosen up the brakes he went backwards and give more room for alonso, or he could haved drivven away.....
in political therms i would abuse him for creating a not safe situation and not willing to undone it...
you clearly see the car wanting to roll back...
we all know that with a small blip on the throttle he could be at the finish line, or at least away from the race line...
my words.
TKs
Give the guy a break, he did not win his world championships by cheating.
He had the best time because he pushed his car to the limit and paid for it with cooking his brakes.
He is the only driver that says it as it is, doesent make excuses, doesent blame his team or the marschals or the weather or the coulour of the other
car anything else that comes up.
If Alonso had done that people would just say he was unlucky and it was unavoidable.
Its all part of the sport, if you cant stand the heat stay out of the kitchen.
What colour is the sky on your planet.
MS has publicly admitted to punting Damon Hill, just to make sure that Hill did not win the two championships involved. Damon Hill is still more than
a little 'dirty' about it nowdays.
If MS can do that and get away with it, then what can possibly be wrong with 'parking' on the track to keep pole position?
I sail offshore in racing yachts, and it is not uncommon for the italians to mysteriously gain many miles at night in calm weather, while charging
batteries with their engines 'out of gear'. Italians and Ferrari don't cheat.
Well, not much anyway.
Cheers,
Syd.
I'll have an ounce of whatever you're smoking John
quote:
Give the guy a break, he did not win his world championships by cheating.
Ok mistake or no mistake, he did not finish the qualifying session, so should he not start the race at the back of the grid?
i don't look at the colour of my sky, ( i don't choose side)
Its not a question of who's on pole.
because who knows if alonso's engine would last the extra push??
its just the question should they punish him or not!!
i think you cant do that wrong on such a moment. its that simple... and if you do it, you cant earn something..
for me earning something and do ing something wrong cant go together....
can he get away with it or should he have some punishment...??
its just that..
i think he needs a couple of seconds on hsis time..or starting out of the pitlane etc.
for a spanish alonso was very very calm..
sow bravo for him to...
also the way he drove to the corner wasn't the race line...
anyway the brakes of that ferrari wil be changed this night because of safety issues... sow don't worry..
Tks
quote:
Originally posted by zenarcher
Ok mistake or no mistake, he did not finish the qualifying session, so should he not start the race at the back of the grid?
Are you guys realy saying that he won his world championships buy cheating!!!!
I,m not saying he wont push the rules, but everybody else plays the same games.
Lets face it, the guy has been best driver for years, he getting on a bit, but can still show how its done.
Stop using the same old excuses
He has proved that he can take a second rate car and still force faviorite team to race (Mclaren 99-2001).
He is a machine, and if he can win he will win.
All the bookies cant be wrong
quote:
Originally posted by Johnmor
Are you guys realy saying that he won his world championships buy cheating!!!!
Like I said, at least one yes, had he not deliberately punted Damon he wouldnt have won the championship that year, although certainly not saying he
won al 7 titles by cheating.
There's no doubt he's got huge talent but there's a big difference between being a great driver and a great sportsman. He is the
former, but certainly not the latter.
[Edited on 27/5/06 by ChrisGamlin]
John,
every one knows that schumacher is like a cat, when its getting warm he makes stange jumps!
with hill was the best example...
i cant believe there are that kind of persons in the world who just ignore this kind of sporting...
and this has nothing to do with rulez ..
what if fisi tomorrow hits the back of schumi, alonso then would win and schumi would get DNF....
there is no rule for that to... would it be acceptable??
just come back from mars and put you in the shoes of alonso are maybe better of the complete F1 team...
you know it cant be leeting done by nothing...
Tks
" If, in the opinion of the stewards, a driver deliberately stops on the circuit or impedes another driver in any way during the qualifying
practice session his times will be cancelled."
If Renault protest then the stewards will have to look at it.
quote:
Originally posted by Johnmor
He has proved that he can take a second rate car and still force faviorite team to race (Mclaren 99-2001).
Ok
Lets give everybody the same car, and the same team support.
Who's your money on!
If you re-read the thread, I don't think you'll find anyone questioning Schumacher's skill as a driver, and if all the drivers were put
into the same car I have no doubt he'd be at or near the front. Even the best driver put into an average car won't win though, thats a
fact.
Anyway, skill has nothing to do with sportsmanship, which is what this thread is questioning.
Have a look at this footage. He's going so slowly that he obviously hasnt lost the back
end, then takes the tight line and turns into the apex. At this point he appears to realise he CAN make the turn, so straightens up again to ensure he
can't make the turn.
That second straightening up I cannot explain other than to ensure he couldnt make the turn, the speed of the car was very low so there's no way
he lost the back end and needed to correct, and he was past the apex / barrier as he did this, so it wasnt as if he had to take avoiding action to
prevent hitting the inside barrier.
[Edited on 27/5/06 by ChrisGamlin]
I accept that some of his actions are verging on the point of blatent poor sportsmanship.
But he has been punished before and if he breaks the rules he will recieve a punishment.
Dont say the FIA are bias, look at the tyre debacle last year, if you cant make a fast tyre dont race!
I think part of the problem is that he has been in the spotlight for years and any discrection is pounced on instantly as deliberate and intentional.
(as this page shows)
If you put other drivers under a similar spotlight they would also come out smelling less sweet. That includes Coultard, Hill, Hakinen e.t.c.
I wont defend deliberate acts of cheating, but the jurys not back yet.
Maybe hes just been around too long.
"Cant teach an old dog" etc
Its just because he's about my age, I like to see the old guys kick ass
deffo an intentional error.
Better quality on board footage here
Under investigation.
http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=36063
That video says it all. He looked like he was parking up for the shopping, locked the front and went wide my @rse. Put him at the back or start him from the pit lane if they still do that.
There have been many questionable decisions about the legality of Ferrari cars and their actions whilst the cobbler has been driving for them. Anyone
remember the incident in the year he broke his leg when the car was found illegal at teh end of one of the races, Ross Brawn stood up and showed
everyone where it was wrong, and how it contravened the regulations, yet somehow they managed to escape a penalty because it was a
"manufacturing" error - by about 1cm in an F1 car. Come off it, I doubt any builder on here would be happy with that much tolerance!!
Also generally thought that Ferrari used a similar fuel tank to that which got Honda a 2 race ban, but they were not investigated - their performance
went down straight afterwards though.
So does he cheat? Depends on a definition of cheat I guess, but todays manouvre looks very suspicious to me, especially at Monaco where pole is so
important.
Its amazing how much debate the phrase "give the guy a break " can generate.
I must admit the video looks bad, If he had reversed on to the track and hit other cars it would have been worse, and judging by the prevoius few
corners he had totally shot his brakes.
But that little shimme of the steering wheel doesen't look good.
I await the judges decission.
;
Im not sure how he could have shot his brakes in qualifying after only a handful of slow laps then a single qualifying blast, they arent allowed to
change pads etc between qualifying and the race so if he was in trouble there, then he'll only last a handful of laps tomorrow.
I agree if he'd backed into someone whilst trying to manouvre away from the barrier then it could have been worse, but what he did at that point
IMHO isnt relevent, it was how he got there to start with that's the problem.
I know you think there's a witch-hunt against Schuey here but honestly, if someone else did it I think most would be fundamentally saying the
same thing and calling for them to be put to the back etc, its just that Michael has a less than pure history in these kind of things so that stirs
things up even more.
[Edited on 27/5/06 by ChrisGamlin]
I remember reading somewhere a quote by a mechanic for one of the other teams saying that Ferrari are colloquially known as TCB by everyone else.
TCB= Those Cheating Ba****ds
Very few people called them that when Mclaren was winning all the races,
Then, they were the best hope of a good race.
Every team pushes the rules to the limit,
Honda (fuel tanks) McLaren (chassis weight) Renault (tyres) Redbull (engine design)
Its just a case of who does it best, and the loosers moan that "its not fair"when they get caught.
i must point out, stretching the rules is a completely different game to unsporting behaviour.
Sorry guys The question of did he cheat or not is answered bu the fact that he is German driving for Italians!!!
No question!!!
http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=36071
the plot thickens
From the same source,this was part of Maclaren CEO Whitmarch's comment.
Whitmarsh also related Kimi Raikkonens wry observation on the Schumacher incident.
"I think the best comment I've heard on it since it happened was Kimi's own view that in fact he(Shumacher) should've taken one
hand off the steering wheel, covered the camera with one hand, and done it with the other..."
If Schumacher felt the need to cheat, he would have made a better job of it than that. Despite the fact that he's the most talented driver
ever to grace Formula 1 and also a legend in your lifetime, he is still only human. 
i cant see any locking of wheels,he straightens up for the tight full lock corner,he was going so slowly, he just brushed the covering on the tyre
barrier.
without doubt one of the best drivers out there he shouldnt have made a mistake like that.
looks like "ferrari tactics".
will he get pushed to the back of the grid?
the answer is yes!!
its better of the sport, because i personally didn't take the fia with their stupid rulez to seriously...but seeing this and he won't get
punished is weird...
sow i'm glad he is punished for what he did...
i'm sure they could imagine a number of rulez he had broken by just parking his car there...
for me case is done altough medication doesn't heals wounds, i never liked schumachter because of this actions...
you always smell something of thiskind of things when you see him smileing...
its like the famous best guy in class wich is the biggest asshole there is..
Tks
It's a "we'll never know for sure situation" but the general overall concensus is it was deliberate so the back of the grid
beckons
The critical error for me in all this was the press conference when the usually well informed efficient German was in a flap and very nervous. He even
said he couldn't remember the name of the corner "rascass or something" I think he said.
The most famous F1 track in the world in history and the multi world champion does'nt know the name of the corner (clang as a bollock is
dropped).
Should be a good race tommorrow and the the superbikes after that. Just finished decorating so I don't get nagged by swmbo for sitting all day
watching TV. Will my car ever get finished???
quote:
Originally posted by theconrodkid
will he get pushed to the back of the grid?
Why did he need to reverse? He didn't look that close to the wall in the video, the brakes only locked momentarily and he was still steering the car after that, towards the wall though.
but then i though about the front wing..by turning more in could they touch the walls..
anyway if he would have loosened the brakes a bit the car would go downwards a bit and then he could have escaped easyly with out reverse gear...
also he said somewhere the tried to find reverse..
but he also says i didn't wanted to go reverse because i couldn see traffic comeing...
the stranges move is the steering correction while the backend isn't moveing / sliding/loosing grip...
maybe it wasn't planned but he didn't do much for improveing the situation....
also my opinion is that a fault needs a punishment.... and not a pole posistion...
its that easy!! sow maybe he didn't wanted to but at the end he created that situation.. sow he should be punished..
for it..
You:No agent i didn't wanted to kill him.
Agent: But you did!
for me its that simple...
altough saying that i think that the bar team was bigger punished with the tank incident then schumi on this one...
also i like the 112 rule wich is used:
"Article 112 enables the stewards to delete any number of a driver's qualifying times for a driving infringement, which decision is not
susceptible to appeal," the Statement said. "The stewards accordingly direct that the qualifying times of Michael Schumacher, the driver of
car number five, be deleted. The effect of this is that...the driver will start the race from the back of the grid."
Tks
I recently had an accident in my car, no I didnt do it on purpose.
I know, he as lost pole, wrong decision in my opinion.
Does he still have to start with his quali race set up? or does it become an open set up situation as if he qualied outside the top 10?
If so a fuel to the end and one set of tyres and MS could still be well up in the points. I'm not a big fan of the German but he is an out and
out racer. Trouble is, for me he has no personality, if he did his following would be even bigger. He is too clinical/professional and lacks that
certain something. IMHO
I think if I was to vent my thoughts on him in a public place such as this, I think I'd end up in court.
No, he isn't the best driver of all time. He may have seven title to his name, but at least two seasons were in a car that was simply miles ahead
of anything else.
No. it's no good.
From the MoS.
Headline: "You're a cheat"
Selected quotes (cos I can't be arsed to type them all out)
Keke Rosberg - "He's cheap cheat. He should just go home and leave the sport to honest people".
Flavio Briatore - "It was unbelievable, Schumacher didn't even hit the barrier. He's parked the bloody car in Fernando's way.
It's a disgrace. He's taking everyone for a ride. Someone who was 7 times WC wants us to believe he didn't do it on purpose - it's
fairyland".
Villeneuve - ....... "In fact, Schumacher's reckless driving nine years ago in Jerez caused the FIA, the sport's governing body, to
erase him from the championship records for that season
Australia 1994 - last of season - who drove into who to stop one becoming WC
I think the bloke doesn't understand the concepts of sport and sporting.
And the governing body's complete inability to hand out severe punishment is another reason (aside of the boredom) that I don't watch
F1
ATB
Simon
quote:
Originally posted by omega 24 v6
Trouble is, for me he has no personality, if he did his following would be even bigger. He is too clinical/professional and lacks that certain something. IMHO
Did anyone catch the comment from Martin Brundle, that Ferrari had taken the opportunity to change both engines, as the cars were at the back of the
grid anyway?
If they did change them both, then Silverstone should be interesting, with both Ferraris on not too fresh engines.
Cheers,
Syd.
Personally i think that it is possible that Michael "crashed" intentionally, however i dont think he should have been sent to the back of
the grid. Plus, Alonso only missed P1 by .06seconds and to punish Michael 22 grid spots because Alonso missed 1 grid spot is overkill. You know that
if the same crash had happened by someone in 8th then they wouldnt have thrown him to the back of the grid. Its racing, sh*t happens.
I applaud Michael for his comeback though.