simes43
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| posted on 13/1/08 at 11:35 AM |
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Buddy system
Between now and the 750 class meeting in Feb, Declan has asked if a list could be drawn up on what people would want to see from such a system.
One suggestion has been that novices park next to their "helper" for their first meeting and second meeting.
This will help people get through signing on, scruiteneering, drivers briefing, making sure the wheels are bolted on etc. This would create a
logistical issue at some circuits and the potential for non involved people to have to move their kit for it to be accomadated.
Suggestions please........
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pointy
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| posted on 13/1/08 at 12:53 PM |
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Simon,
What about a simple check list of what to take for a first meeting.
It may sound obvious but we brought a truck load of stuff we didn't need and forgot really simple items. Experience (albeit limited) has ironed
out this.
Andy P
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piddy
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| posted on 13/1/08 at 01:29 PM |
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Hello Andy.
Have you still got your XT Or did you sell it in the end?
Hows the racing going?
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simes43
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| posted on 13/1/08 at 03:27 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by pointy
Simon,
What about a simple check list of what to take for a first meeting.
It may sound obvious but we brought a truck load of stuff we didn't need and forgot really simple items. Experience (albeit limited) has ironed
out this.
Andy P
Tricky to say what you do need as I usually arrive during scruiteneering!
Matt from procomp could help the most here. Matt?
Unless something breaks, I find tie wraps, rolls of tape, latex gloves and paper roll get used the most.
The best piece of equipment I have is a low quick jack, easy to use and great for when you need to change tyres quickly. The other is an impact wrench
for getting nuts off and on in a hurry.
The one thing you need the most but never have enough of is time.
The main problem for everyone is the limited period of time between the scruits and practice, especially when starting out, as first time circuit
briefings can take an age.
One way of saving this time is to make sure that the car and safety equipment is ready for scruiteneering prior to you leaving home. If you run
through everything at home, aim for when the car rolls off the trailer that it is ready for inspection. Chasing a faulty bulb or sorting a pull cord
can eat all the time you would have spent preping the car.
If its the first time out, the extra time saved should be used to weigh the car and asking questions of the more experienced drivers.
The one question I always ask , is what gear I should be in at any point on the circuit.
Stuff like printing off the timetable the night before, adjusting the belts, setting the pressures (wets and drys), arriving with a full tank and
checking all the fluids are right, can really help take the pressure off.
[Edited on 13/1/08 by simes43]
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TMC Motorsport
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| posted on 13/1/08 at 03:32 PM |
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Hi Simon,
Im a big fan of the buddy system idea, I was fortunate when I started in that my Dad had years of competition experience so he helped considerably,
but even with that if it hadnt been for the likes of Tim Gray, Des and Al, Graham Walker etc etc I would never have progressed.
Dad and I are always happy to help anyone with advice or work on their cars so would happily be involved in the buddy scheme.
Perhaps a system whereby for as long as the novice cross is on the car the driver is supported by an established competitor, as even after that point
once the link is established it will probably continue.
How would the allocation be decided? Names out of a hat or would the novices be able to choose their mentor?? For example I imagine Procomp would be a
popular choice so maybe the established competitors would have to specify how many people they would be willing to look after??
Regards,
Matt
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andrews_45
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| posted on 13/1/08 at 03:52 PM |
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Great Idea. would certainly help ease some of the worries that us new starters would encounter. Last season at Mallory I went through scruteneering
with Samir which helped me a bit.
I have an offer from Gary, which I'd defo like to take up...
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pointy
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| posted on 13/1/08 at 05:04 PM |
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Great ideas starting to come through.
I can spend some time coming up with a simple 1st time at a meeting checklist and post it here for you all to view/add to or remove.
Perhaps those interested in buddying can post here with their home postcode or locataion and when novices register an interest they can be directed
to closest buddy thus keeping potential travelling cost to a minimum.
Just a couple of thoughts
Andy
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simes43
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| posted on 13/1/08 at 06:45 PM |
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Initially I thought the top 10 would be allocated a new driver each.
However, that would mean someone having me over being helped by TMC, the Dudleys, procomp and Graham Walker etc.
I will chat with Graham as there are few who have more passion and knowledge than him. He may be interested in doing the beginners stuff in a more
official capacity.
AndyP, please get the list together.
I have copied below a set up sheet that I have customised for our series.
Loads could be added, but its good practice for anyone to keep notes from the beginning.
L R C Settings Sheet
Circuit _______________________ Driver ________ _______________________
Date ______ Time _________Front Toe In/Out _____________________
Lap Record _______________Front Roll Bar ___________________
Weather ________________ Chassis Rake ____________________
Temperature______________ Car and Driver Weight_____________
Session Qualifying Race ____ Fuel Level ______________________
Front Cross Weight ________Rear Cross Weight________________
Diagonal LF to RR ________ Diagonal RF to LR ________________
Left Front Right Front
Tyre PSI Cold _____ Hot _____Tyre PSI Cold______ Hot_______
Tyre Temp Cold_____ Hot _____ Tyre Temp Cold______ Hot_______
Shock Compression __________ Shock Compression _____________
Shock Setting_______________ Shock Setting__________________
Spring Rate ________________ Spring Rate ___________________
Camber ___________________ Camber ______________________
Caster ____________________ Caster _______________________
Ride Height ________________ Ride Height ___________________
Corner Weight______________ Corner Weight__________________
Left R ear Right Rear
Tyre PSI Cold______ Hot_____ Tyre PSI Cold______ Hot_______
Tyre Temp Cold______ Hot_____ Tyre Temp Cold______ Hot_______
Shock Compression __________ Shock Compression _____________
Shock Setting _____________ Shock Setting ___________________
Spring Rate ________________ Spring Rate ____________________
Ride Height ________________ Ride Height ____________________
Corner Weight_______________ Corner Weight__________________
Tyre Set ___ _ Diff Ratio _____ Engine Temp______ Brake Bias______%
Fastest Lap Time __________ on Lap________ Max Revs__________
Lap Times 1______2______3______4______5______6______7______
8_______9______10______11______12______13______14______
15______ 16______17______18______19______20______
Car Set up Notes____________________________________________
_________________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________
[Edited on 13/1/08 by simes43]
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pointy
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| posted on 13/1/08 at 08:22 PM |
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Ok,
First draft of a check list, and please add items you think or delete if unimportant.
M.S.A Licence
750 Club membership card
Transponder or money to hire one
Watch
Details of meeting
Race wear (sounds silly but)
Trolley jack or quick lift
Tools (dont go overboard just the essentials)
Multimeter
Cloths or Industrial tissues
Jerry can x 2
Oil
Spares.... (Again sensible.. list below)
H.T leads
Spark plugs
Oil pump
Carb
Alternator
Various gaskets
2" gaffer tape
Distributer cap
C Spanner
Tyre pressure gauge
Foot pump
Tie wraps
Latex gloves
Radiator cap
Obviously there will be eqt for camping but that will be down to the individuals
Simes I have printed off your set up sheet thats just what I needed.
Andy
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TMC Motorsport
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| posted on 13/1/08 at 09:38 PM |
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A couple of years ago I believe someone drafted a booklet for novices coming into the series full of useful info, checklists, advice etc etc. Im not
sure if it ever got formalised and finished but I'd be happy to try to put something together that could be sent out with confirmation of
registration by the club if they agree? What do people think?
Matt
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Rob Palin
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| posted on 13/1/08 at 09:51 PM |
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That's an excellent list. The first two items in particular are ones i still have nightmares about forgetting.
There's probably only one other thing i'd add to it which is a few kilogrammes of ballast (i use roofing lead sheet folded into
squares).
The scales at each circuit read differently, but the scrutes won't entertain questions about that, so it's best to check your weight
yourself each meeting and pack some extra ballast in case you show up light. At Donington once i checked before practice and was 8kg underweight,
despite having used properly-calibrated professional corner weight scales to set the car up at 620kg (empty of fuel) just hours before. It's
not worth the risk.
By the way, it's good to see Matt (TMC) back on here. I think Matt & his dad still hold the official title for Most Helpful People in the
World. They took me under their wing when i first started and their assistance ever since has been immeasurable.
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pointy
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| posted on 13/1/08 at 10:43 PM |
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Thanks Rob/Matt.
I can add any number of items as this is now a word document which as Matt said could be either made into a booklet, or printed off and laminated,
and made into a "Novice Pack" along with Simons set up sheet, and any other relevant details we all decide would benefit new drivers.
Any more items/ideas post them on.
Andy
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procomp
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| posted on 14/1/08 at 09:02 AM |
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Hi i think you have kind of hit the nail on the head Simon when you mentioned some one doing it in an official sort of way.
One of the biggest problems the new comers have once they have the basics sorted and got used to what times and procedure ect is that they receive so
much conflicting advice from different people that they simply do not know which way to go. There are some very different setups on camber tyre
pressure's toe and tracking ect ect. being used by different people. In the same way that the different chassis ie St/aries and the luego/viper
chassis need different setups to work well.
Having one person as such may well be the answer as it would possibly be of more help to the new comer having one person to listen to rather than
having conflicting advise all well meant but leaves them with more problems in trying to decide which way to set the car up ect.
Certainly having lists compiled of tools and essentials ect to bring along is a good idea. As well as setup sheets that can be compiled into a folder
for the different circuits.
And maybe if no one person can take on the newcomers role ect then a list of people who are prepared to help ect. Although i would suspect that list
would be every one attending a meeting. 
Cheers Matt@P
Added the @P as theres now two MATT'S here and i wouldent want confusion
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andrews_45
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| posted on 14/1/08 at 09:45 AM |
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Interesting.... weighing my car before a race? Thats summat I completely overlooked. How do you go about doing this?
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simes43
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| posted on 14/1/08 at 09:52 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by andrews_45
Interesting.... weighing my car before a race? Thats summat I completely overlooked. How do you go about doing this?
There are scales at each meeting that have to be made available. Petrol is .75 a kilo per litre so if you know your tank size and how much is in it
then you can weigh it with or without fuel.
I would suggest having a car cornerweighted prior to taking it onto a circuit in the first place. You will get a test weight from the this.
Scales vary alot between circuits as has been discussed, Mallory can read light, Silverstone is accurate if they close the door of the scruit bay.
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simes43
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| posted on 14/1/08 at 09:59 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by procomp
Hi i think you have kind of hit the nail on the head Simon when you mentioned some one doing it in an official sort of way.
One of the biggest problems the new comers have once they have the basics sorted and got used to what times and procedure ect is that they receive so
much conflicting advice from different people that they simply do not know which way to go. There are some very different setups on camber tyre
pressure's toe and tracking ect ect. being used by different people. In the same way that the different chassis ie St/aries and the luego/viper
chassis need different setups to work well.
Having one person as such may well be the answer as it would possibly be of more help to the new comer having one person to listen to rather than
having conflicting advise all well meant but leaves them with more problems in trying to decide which way to set the car up ect.
Certainly having lists compiled of tools and essentials ect to bring along is a good idea. As well as setup sheets that can be compiled into a folder
for the different circuits.
And maybe if no one person can take on the newcomers role ect then a list of people who are prepared to help ect. Although i would suspect that list
would be every one attending a meeting.
Cheers Matt@P
Added the @P as theres now two MATT'S here and i wouldent want confusion
Thats why I was thinking of Graham. He is not representing a company in the same way that a Steve Hills and your goodself would.
In regards to chassis set up, I am not sure that anyone will be able to help tune a chassis beyond reducing levels of understeer and oversteer.
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simes43
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| posted on 14/1/08 at 10:06 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by pointy
Ok,
First draft of a check list, and please add items you think or delete if unimportant.
M.S.A Licence
750 Club membership card
Transponder or money to hire one
Watch
Details of meeting
Race wear (sounds silly but)
Trolley jack or quick lift
Tools (dont go overboard just the essentials)
Multimeter
Cloths or Industrial tissues
Jerry can x 2
Oil
Spares.... (Again sensible.. list below)
H.T leads
Spark plugs
Oil pump
Carb
Alternator
Various gaskets
2" gaffer tape
Distributer cap
C Spanner
Tyre pressure gauge
Foot pump
Tie wraps
Latex gloves
Radiator cap
Obviously there will be eqt for camping but that will be down to the individuals
Simes I have printed off your set up sheet thats just what I needed.
Andy
With Matt's (TMC) booklet what level of advice are we looking to contain within it?
Example:Tyre buffed to 4 mm, but they must be heat cycled before used etc
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TMC Motorsport
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| posted on 14/1/08 at 10:59 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by simes43
With Matt's (TMC) booklet what level of advice are we looking to contain within it?
Example:Tyre buffed to 4 mm, but they must be heat cycled before used etc
Perhaps nothing that detailed, as a novice would not be too worried about the finer points of car preparation unless they have previous experience in
racing and immediately are looking to get the best from the car rather than themselves, but I get your drift.
I was thinking more along the lines of having a booklet containing a basic generic race day schedule to walk someone through when and where they need
to be to ensure nothing is missed, eg first time briefings, when to join the queue for scrutineering, how soon before practice to go to the assembly
area, what they need to have with them, eg signing on ticket for scrutineering, scrutineering label displayed when going to practice, where to get
times and results from etc etc. All the little things that we take for granted but when it is your first time out might raise question marks that need
not be there.
Basically something that is designed as a bit of homework to take the unknown out of the first meeting, so that the person is more likely to enjoy
his/her time and relax a bit more, which is likely to make them quicker on track!
Matt @ TMC
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simes43
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| posted on 14/1/08 at 11:57 AM |
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I believe there maybe room for both. One frustration that I had when I started racing karts was not knowing much about certain areas and ending up
paying twice.
Using the tyres as an example. A539's work better after they are buffed down. If someone orders a set from Polley, knowing that they can get
them delivered buffed for an extra charge it will save some cash/aggro and the car will work a little better.
Also, sending tyres that have been used to be buffed at a later date can cause delamination.
When a set of buffed a539's can last all season, they might as well be right from the start.
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TMC Motorsport
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| posted on 14/1/08 at 12:00 PM |
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True, there is no harm in getting everything right from the beginning, and a car that is set up and works properly from the start is only going to be
a benefit.
Anyone else have suggestions of things that they had to discover that would have helped at the start?
Here's another: Using the car in front to help "tow" you down a straight. Seems obvious but until you try it you dont know how much
of a benefit it is.
Matt
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pointy
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| posted on 14/1/08 at 03:09 PM |
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So,
Perhaps a small A5 type folder with Admin contact names on first pages, checklist on page 2, setup sheet on page 3, Suppliers on page 4, etc etc.
Any more ideas... I can make one up and bring it to first meeting,
Simon what do you think?
Andy
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procomp
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| posted on 14/1/08 at 03:13 PM |
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Hi yep wasting money is definitely important to newcomers. Had a guy in on sat after the show and couldn't believe he missed the piston offer. A
£75 saving could have been made.
Found the previous setup sheets and info that was available by DES&Al
LINK HERE Some of it maybe of help maybe.
Graham would be an ideal candidate for the position. ( Anyone told him he has a new job )
So plenty of good ideas floating then. Is Declan looking at collating it all together etc or leaving it open till say after the AFD's. Robin
could obviously provide a list of newcomers. Although some may already be experienced. But i think through the year there should be 2-3 newcomers
with no experience who would i am sure appreciate this new scheme.
Cheers Matt@P
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simes43
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| posted on 14/1/08 at 03:16 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by TMC Motorsport
True, there is no harm in getting everything right from the beginning, and a car that is set up and works properly from the start is only going to be
a benefit.
Anyone else have suggestions of things that they had to discover that would have helped at the start?
Here's another: Using the car in front to help "tow" you down a straight. Seems obvious but until you try it you dont know how much
of a benefit it is.
Matt
So a "wished I knew that at the beginning of the year" section too
Replacing the crush spacer in the diff with one of Procomp's solid replacements. Wished I knew that at the beginning of the year.....
AndyP Without complicating things too much again, could we add these three sections?
-First event Check and Equipment List
-Wished I knew that at the beginning of the year. Tips etc
-What they didnt tell me on the ARDS course. Using a tow, avoiding traffic etc
[Edited on 14/1/08 by simes43]
[Edited on 14/1/08 by simes43]
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pointy
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| posted on 14/1/08 at 03:37 PM |
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Yep
Perhaps the using the tow could go under a section called "Improving your skill" which would then encapsulate (nice long word) using a
tow, watching for blue flags, awarness of other competitors heating up the brakes on the warm up lap (or betwen collection area and grid)
When to check the oil and water gauges during race, what to do at the end of the race (i.e how to cool down the car and yourself, etc etc.
Keep the ideas coming.
Andy
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pointy
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| posted on 14/1/08 at 04:42 PM |
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Ok,
I had a play with what could be the Contents page and listed under each heading what could be filed behind the pages...Capitals will be the headings
on page 1.. Lower case will be the pages within the directory.
All pages can be A5 (nice and small) and laminated.
Locost Novice Pack
PAGE 1
IMPORTANT CONTACTS.
750 club, locost representative, M.S.A numbers.
PAGE 2
PRE-MEETING CHECKLIST
M.S.A Licence
750 Club membership card
Transponder or money to hire one
Watch
Details of meeting
Race wear (sounds silly but)
Trolley jack or quick lift
Tools (dont go overboard just the essentials)
Multimeter
Cloths or Industrial tissues
Jerry can x 2
Oil
Spares.... (Again sensible.. list below)
H.T leads
Spark plugs
Oil pump
Carb
Alternator
Various gaskets
2" gaffer tape
Distributer cap
C Spanner
Tyre pressure gauge
Foot pump
Tie wraps
Latex gloves
Radiator cap
PAGE 3
IMPROVING YOUR SKILL
Getting a tow, Warming the brakes/tyres, cooling down after a race, Driver awareness
PAGE 4
TECHNICAL TIPS
Massive amount of information could go in here but lets not overload. Ideas please. This is were you would put you crush spacer in the diff bit from
procomp
PAGE 5
SET UP FORM
Circuit _______________________ Driver ________¬¬¬_______________________
Date ______ Time _________Front Toe In/Out _____________________
Lap Record _______________Front Roll Bar ___________________
Weather ________________ Chassis Rake ____________________
Temperature______________ Car and Driver Weight_____________
Session Qualifying Race ____ Fuel Level ______________________
Front Cross Weight ________Rear Cross Weight________________
Diagonal LF to RR ________ Diagonal RF to LR ________________
Left Front Right Front
Tyre PSI Cold _____ Hot _____Tyre PSI Cold______ Hot_______
Tyre Temp Cold_____ Hot _____ Tyre Temp Cold______ Hot_______
Shock Compression __________ Shock Compression _____________
Shock Setting_______________ Shock Setting__________________
Spring Rate ________________ Spring Rate ___________________
Camber ___________________ Camber ______________________
Caster ____________________ Caster _______________________
Ride Height ________________ Ride Height ___________________
Corner Weight______________ Corner Weight__________________
Left R¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬ear Right Rear
Tyre PSI Cold______ Hot_____ Tyre PSI Cold______ Hot_______
Tyre Temp Cold______ Hot_____ Tyre Temp Cold______ Hot_______
Shock Compression __________ Shock Compression _____________
Shock Setting _____________ Shock Setting ___________________
Spring Rate ________________ Spring Rate ____________________
Ride Height ________________ Ride Height ____________________
Corner Weight_______________ Corner Weight__________________
Tyre Set ___¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬_ Diff Ratio _____ Engine Temp______ Brake Bias______%
Fastest Lap Time __________ on Lap________ Max Revs__________
Lap Times 1______2______3______4______5______6______7______
8_______9______10______11______12______13______14______
15______ 16______17______18______19______20______
Car Set up Notes____________________________________________
_________________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________
PAGE 6
Mentor list A list of those driver who are willing to Buddy and perhaps others who are willing to be approached for help…..again up to individuals if
contact at meetings or phone numbers and contactable at weekends..(a discussion point)
PAGE 7
Trackday guide and circuits…exactly what it says,
Sorry this bit is long but it gives you an idea of what can be done.
Thoughts please.
Matt C/ Simon Could this work?
Andy
[Edited on 14/1/08 by pointy]
[Edited on 14/1/08 by pointy]
[Edited on 14/1/08 by pointy]
[Edited on 14/1/08 by pointy]
[Edited on 14/1/08 by pointy]
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