franky
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| posted on 29/2/12 at 08:41 PM |
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180rwhp seems a little low for a 240bhp engine? Maybe the crack affected the mapping so it'll need sorting/mapping again?
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daviep
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| posted on 29/2/12 at 08:44 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by franky
180rwhp seems a little low for a 240bhp engine? Maybe the crack affected the mapping so it'll need sorting/mapping again?
Was the collector cracked when they were trying to set the IVA emissions? That would explain a lot.
Davie
“A truly great library contains something in it to offend everyone.”
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daniel mason
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| posted on 29/2/12 at 08:46 PM |
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honda produced figures of 237 but not accurate. im a member of the s2000 forum and they said to expect 190 bhp max at the wheels. probably less with a
non standard manifold as the oem honda one is superb!
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daniel mason
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| posted on 29/2/12 at 08:46 PM |
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no davie. its been back since and still no joy?
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rodgling
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| posted on 29/2/12 at 09:04 PM |
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High CO means it's rich (if it had more oxygen available it would be producing CO2 instead). I would have a read of this:
http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h56.pdf
which goes into a lot of detail about causes of various emissions problems.
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DJT
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| posted on 1/3/12 at 12:54 PM |
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On my Webcon Alpha set up I had to activate the timing retard function. Apparently this was built into the ECU software for Westfield (I think).
When the timing is retarded the exhaust gases run hotter, thereby lighting the cat. I recently passed the MoT and IVA with the timing temporarily
retarded. Without retardation it was failing. I've hard wired a switch so that I can activate this future MoTs.
The other thing Webcon advised was to make sure the tester is using a long enough probe as with the side exit exhausts the pulsations in the air
pressure can draw fresh air back in to the silencer, which then gets sniffed by the probe and the readings messed up.
This was just my experience. Maybe something in there of help. Good luck.
http://tigeravonbuilddiary.blogspot.com/
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PeteS2k
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| posted on 3/3/12 at 08:53 AM |
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How did things go on Friday? Did you find the problem in time, fail on just emissions or postpone?
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daniel mason
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| posted on 3/3/12 at 09:52 AM |
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potponed again, have had enough of it all now. wish id never started
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franky
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| posted on 3/3/12 at 09:56 AM |
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You'll get there, could you not get a map off someone else to see if its just a mapping issue? did you find any leaks?
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BigLee
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| posted on 3/3/12 at 10:07 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by daniel mason
potponed again, have had enough of it all now. wish id never started
Don't be down mate. If car building was easy everyone would be at it! This will buy you enough time to sort it.
Mine has been running rich for weeks. Been chasing my tail figuring it out. Changed pretty much every sensor, wire, coil pack etc to no joy. Figured
it yesterday. Tiny leak on inlet manifold gasket. Simple things.
Best of luck
Lee
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daniel mason
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| posted on 3/3/12 at 10:20 AM |
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its nor running rich though. its had hours on the dyno and power map was good, but no matter what emissions could not be sorted, so as it stands ive
got the cart back home in iva trim,imout of pocket and still high Co at idle and fast idle!
and i have no idea about mapping ecu's for emissions.
looks like im going to have to take it somewhere else to try but its expensive. if i could find a buyer id sell it in non road legal/track form
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daviep
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| posted on 3/3/12 at 11:12 AM |
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You need to tackle this in a more logical manner and start eliminating components.
- If you have high CO then you are running rich, it's simple chemistry - there isn't enough oxygen to burn all the fuel
- You need to establish that the engine is running nice and clean without a CAT
- If you cannot get the CO down to reasonable limits without a CAT then you need to diagnose which sensor is causing the ecu to over fuel -
eg an exhaust leak will allow oxygen into the gas stream, the lambda sensor will see the oxygen and think that the engine is running lean and so start
adding extra fuel to try and richen back up. You need to check for sensible readings from all sensors.
- Once you have it operating correctly in closed loop then fit the cat and compare readings to check for correct operation of the cat.
You are paying for a service from MNR and the tuner, you are entitled to detailed breakdowns of what was / wasn't tried or tested and also the
relevant data which was produced when trying.
Just my 2p
Cheers
Davie
“A truly great library contains something in it to offend everyone.”
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theconrodkid
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| posted on 3/3/12 at 11:39 AM |
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if the CO is out then it,s too rich,try measuring the ohms readings of the water and air temp sensors and is the wiring to them ok?
who cares who wins
pass the pork pies
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adithorp
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| posted on 3/3/12 at 12:29 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by theconrodkid
if the CO is out then it,s too rich,...
Possibly, but it could also just be that the reading are too high to pass because the cat isn't reducing the CO. For example, 0.5%CO isn't
rich for pre-cat readings but with the cat not working (either goosed or just not up to temp) it'll fail emmision testing as too high.
In order to comment on it and to give any meaningfull advice we need to know what the actual reading are.
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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daniel mason
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| posted on 3/3/12 at 01:07 PM |
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i have a seperate air fuel ratio gauge not linked to ecu and at idle with the iva map,its up over 15-16. it has 2 cats on it now also. think there is
a sensor not working somewhere but how do you go about eliminating these with no mapping gear? there are sensors everywhere and i am not too familiar
with this type of fault finding?
[Edited on 3/3/12 by daniel mason]
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daviep
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| posted on 3/3/12 at 01:29 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by daniel mason
i have a seperate air fuel ratio gauge not linked to ecu and at idle with the iva map,its up over 15-16. it has 2 cats on it now also. think there is
a sensor not working somewhere but how do you go about eliminating these with no mapping gear? there are sensors everywhere and i am not too familiar
with this type of fault finding?
[Edited on 3/3/12 by daniel mason]
You need to identify which sensors are feeding the ECU, you will have all or some of these: MAP,TPS, coolant temp, air temp, lambda.
You then need to find the spec sheets of the relevant sensor which will tell you what the resistance / output of each sensor is at certain values.
15-16 is already running lean, you really really really need to find out what the actual readings were and under what conditions and also whether base
line readings were taken before the CAT(s) were fitted.
Once again you need to be logical and methodical to avoid wasting time / money no point and guessing about sensors you need to establish whether there
is a fault with the cat(s) by testing with and without them. and then if the cat(s) are OK you then need to identify where the fault lies.
Davie
“A truly great library contains something in it to offend everyone.”
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daviep
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| posted on 3/3/12 at 01:34 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by daniel mason
i have a seperate air fuel ratio gauge not linked to ecu and at idle with the iva map,its up over 15-16. it has 2 cats on it now also. think there is
a sensor not working somewhere but how do you go about eliminating these with no mapping gear? there are sensors everywhere and i am not too familiar
with this type of fault finding?
[Edited on 3/3/12 by daniel mason]
Are you running 2 lambda probes or are the gauge and ECU looking at the same probe?
If they are looking at the same probe then it is possible that the lambda probe is giving a false lean reading, either due to air leak or damaged
lambda probe.
Davie
“A truly great library contains something in it to offend everyone.”
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daniel mason
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| posted on 3/3/12 at 01:46 PM |
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I nEver wired the engine/ Ecu but can't see how Ecu can be connected to an O2 sensor as the exhaust only has one which is totally separate
fro
The Ecu. Or do these Ecu's have lambda monitoring built in by measuring fuel and O2?
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BigLee
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| posted on 3/3/12 at 06:18 PM |
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A cheap test to eliminate air leaking (as suggested by several forum members) is a can of brake cleaner. Leave the engine idling, then spray each
point of the intake from MAF to head. Listen to the engine note. You'll know when you find it. That's how I found my running problems. For
£3.50 it's a simple test to find simple problems. If there is a leak and you stop it, you'll need another mapping session as it'll
change so much. You may get a better headline figure too. Chin up Dan. You've built a cracking car there mate, don't let something like
this ruin it for you.
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PeteS2k
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| posted on 4/3/12 at 08:33 AM |
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If your tuner managed to get a good engine map, with a smooth idle, no rough running or misfires, then things can't be that far off. It will be
something simple, just a case of finding it!
When looking for air leaks in the exhaust ahead of the lambda probe, don't forget to check where the auxiliary air pump valve sits. (The bit
that sits towards the back of the engine on the intake side). I think you've got this removed and blanked off, like I have. If not properly
sealed, it could suck air through into the header. Could be missed if just looking for leaks in the exhaust side.
Also worth checking with your ECU installer and tuner to check whether or not the ECU/map is using the lambda or not - and if the lambda the tail-pipe
probe agrees with your AFR gauge (and/or ECU, assuming it's wired in). This could highlight if you've got any leaks between your lambda
sensor and the tailpipe. If you're trying to tune for emissions, and the two probes are seeing different values, you could have the ECU battling
against you!
I had a few issues when getting my engine running initially - including crank, cam, MAP sensor and Idle control valve wiring. From my experience, if
there was anything wrong with these, you wouldn't have got as far as you have - and your tuner would've spotted obvious bad readings, so I
would reckon your engine sensors will be ok.
Hope you get it sorted soon.
[Edited on 4/3/12 by PeteS2k]
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