vanepico
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| posted on 21/11/12 at 07:00 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
"Apple attitude" goes a bit like this... Apple make tough decisions on behalf of their customers! They spend a ton of cash on research and
build numerous "versions" of each product before deciding which is the best overall. They then negotiate very tough contracts with
suppliers and manufacturers around the world to build the product from expensive materials and parts while maintaining solid profits.
Let's not forget that most apple products are still built in china... But they are designed in california! The machined parts we get made at
work are designed in the UK, sent to china to be made, and they are quite a lot of the time wrong. Where it is designed makes bugger all
difference!
I like windows computers for the amount of stuff you can do. You can do pretty much anything you want in command prompt. And above all, I'm used
to it, and have been for over 10 years.Putting a tacky looking interface over a system just limits what you can do. I'd much rather just have a
small laptop.
__________________________
Will CAD for food/money/beer...
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splitrivet
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| posted on 21/11/12 at 07:07 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by vanepico
quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
Let's not forget that most apple products are still built in china... But they are designed in california! The machined parts we get made at
work are designed in the UK, sent to china to be made, and they are quite a lot of the time wrong. Where it is designed makes bugger all
difference!
Think you'll find they own the factories in China whereas you probably get your stuff made by a Chinese contractor who tells you one thing to
get the contract but delivers another, been there done that.
Cheers,
Bob
I used to be a Werewolf but I'm alright nowwoooooooooooooo
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JC
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| posted on 21/11/12 at 07:08 PM |
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I love my iPad, and my (i)phone. All I know is that when I picked up a Samsung tab it just felt plasticky, whereas the iPad just feels solid and
'nice'. Shallow? Possibly, but I'm happy!
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PeteS2k
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| posted on 21/11/12 at 08:02 PM |
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Don't have an iPad, but do have an iPhone. And a Windows laptop.
Apple seems to have become the new hate target for the technological cogniscenti, replacing Microsoft/Windows of 10 or more years ago. And for the
same reasons - strong, ubiquitous global brand, user focused - it just does the job most people want intuitively, effectively 'dumbing
down' technology for the masses. Oh... and as a result, they make a huge amount of money.
I remember the Microsoft haters used to be Mac owners (the irony!) who had a certain exclusivity, or Linux users, who liked to hack into the depths of
code to get the machine to do exactly what they wanted. Something of the geek in us is offended by making things too easy, and nice looking, too?
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Stott
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| posted on 21/11/12 at 08:38 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by steve m
I would really like to comment, onthe ipad, but since getting one, wifey uses it 24/7
Possibly the single most compelling reason to buy an ipad, increased garage time without being missed
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smart51
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| posted on 21/11/12 at 08:53 PM |
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My iPad is great. I use it constantly. I have a few niggles with it but nothing serious. Editing text in say an email, if I change my mind about
what to say. It won't let you put the cursor where you want, it has to be at the end of a word, which is annoying if you want to change the
first letter to a capital. All apps have to go through the apple website and all data has to go though an app. It ties you down to their way of
doing things. The auto correct can be infuriating and can't be turned off. On the plus side, it couldn't be easier to use and it just
works. All the time.
Yes, it's expensive, but the iPad mini has just been launched and it's £150 cheaper.
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Irony
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| posted on 21/11/12 at 09:10 PM |
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I am a apple fanboy or was. I have used Macs for years and they are awesome products. But I have just bought a Nexus 7 tablet. I shall explain why.
Price - sorry to those I shall offend. Apple products are fantastically priced for what get. The 27in iMac for example as a fantastic quality
screen. Buying a screen of that quality costs about the same as a entire iMac. Hold up a Samsung tablet next to a iPad and the quality just oozes
out of the iPad. My 3 year old Mac Pro is still the fastest PC in my entire business. They are awesome products.
I have started moving away from Apple after a 10 year love affair simply because I do not like to be dictated to. Apple says I can't upload
this, I can't download this. I have to do what they say. Even worse they are reducing support for the PRO user. I have 32gb of ram and I use
all of it at work. But the MAC Pro hasn't received a upgrade in two years. Yet the iPhone an iPads have had multiple revisions in that time.
Don't say that Macs are expensive because there not. You get what you pay for. They should be criticised for dictating to their customers,
forgetting the Pro Users who stuck by them in the dark years and becoming the monopoly that they sort to destroy that was mircosoft.
Rant over.
Sent from my Google nexus 7.
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craig1410
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| posted on 21/11/12 at 09:11 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by vanepico
quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
"Apple attitude" goes a bit like this... Apple make tough decisions on behalf of their customers! They spend a ton of cash on research and
build numerous "versions" of each product before deciding which is the best overall. They then negotiate very tough contracts with
suppliers and manufacturers around the world to build the product from expensive materials and parts while maintaining solid profits.
Let's not forget that most apple products are still built in china... But they are designed in california! The machined parts we get made at
work are designed in the UK, sent to china to be made, and they are quite a lot of the time wrong. Where it is designed makes bugger all
difference!
I like windows computers for the amount of stuff you can do. You can do pretty much anything you want in command prompt. And above all, I'm used
to it, and have been for over 10 years.Putting a tacky looking interface over a system just limits what you can do. I'd much rather just have a
small laptop.
Not really sure why you quoted my paragraph and then went off on a tangent about design location. Anyway as Bob has already said, I very much doubt
(respectfully) that your experience of manufacture in China has any similarity with what Apple do there. When you are placing orders for 10 million
iPhones a month you get quite a big say in how things are run. Tim Cook, Apple CEO is utterly brilliant when it comes to logistics and manufacture.
Seriously, he is widely regarded as the best in the business and probably has as much, if not more, to do with Apple's recent success as Steve
Jobs. I don't say this lightly. Having said that, problems do occur and the iPhone 5 had a few problems as you may have heard where there were
some units arriving with scuff marks on the body. It's disappointing for sure if you are one of those affected but Apple's customer
service kicks straight in and they will replace your phone with no problem.
Talking of design, you do know that Apple has one of the best industrial designers in the world leading their design department. Sir Jony Ive no less.
He's British and really is a top bloke.
As for your comments about being able to do lots with the windows command prompt, you might be interested to learn that the Mac OS and iOS are based
on BSD Unix. Unix (and Linux) have much more powerful command prompts (or shells) than Windows ever has had or is likely to have in the future.
Seriously, you would be blown away at what you can do at the command line on the Mac. System admins are regularly frustrated at the limitations with
windows where you are often forced to use the GUI to make system config changes which can be done in Linux/Unix in seconds with a shell script.
You've also got a thing called AppleScript and Automator which you can use to automate lots of stuff at a higher level. I'm not sure what
you are talking about when you refer to a tacky looking interface but each to their own.
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craig1410
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| posted on 21/11/12 at 09:20 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Irony
I am a apple fanboy or was. I have used Macs for years and they are awesome products. But I have just bought a Nexus 7 tablet. I shall explain why.
Price - sorry to those I shall offend. Apple products are fantastically priced for what get. The 27in iMac for example as a fantastic quality
screen. Buying a screen of that quality costs about the same as a entire iMac. Hold up a Samsung tablet next to a iPad and the quality just oozes
out of the iPad. My 3 year old Mac Pro is still the fastest PC in my entire business. They are awesome products.
I have started moving away from Apple after a 10 year love affair simply because I do not like to be dictated to. Apple says I can't upload
this, I can't download this. I have to do what they say. Even worse they are reducing support for the PRO user. I have 32gb of ram and I use
all of it at work. But the MAC Pro hasn't received a upgrade in two years. Yet the iPhone an iPads have had multiple revisions in that time.
Don't say that Macs are expensive because there not. You get what you pay for. They should be criticised for dictating to their customers,
forgetting the Pro Users who stuck by them in the dark years and becoming the monopoly that they sort to destroy that was mircosoft.
Rant over.
Sent from my Google nexus 7.
Yes the Mac Pro has been neglected a bit in the last few years but Tim Cook has publicly promised that something special will be released for this
product line in late 2013. Maybe too late for you though... I've got to say though that there has been a significant shift away from desktop
computers of late and you can understand why they have focused on the MacBook Airs and other laptops and mobile devices of late. The iMac is also a
seriously powerful machine for many Pro users but I appreciate for some use cases you do need the pro graphics cards and storage expansion etc. the
iMac will support 32GB RAM now though and the new Fusion drive technology looks very interesting. Before anyone says it, this is NOT the same as
hybrid cache drives...  The recent retina MacBook pros are also fantastic machines for many pro users.
Hopefully Apple will do something special next year to wow you back!
[Edited on 21/11/2012 by craig1410]
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JonnyS
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| posted on 21/11/12 at 09:57 PM |
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Bought a new Apple laptop. Everything worked straight away. Links to everything new without even having to be asked. Looks great. Doesn't get
lots of viruses etc. Works for years and years
Bought a new mid-range PC laptop. Took 3 hours to download updates before it would start. Next time I turned it on it took another 1 hour of updates.
Drivers needed for this and that. Doesn't like router etc. I'll ignore the look and quality as everyone knows Apple win without even
trying. Dies after a couple of years.
I hate the PC.
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nick205
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| posted on 21/11/12 at 10:53 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by balidey
Cost only for me.
I'm not anti Apple.
But I hate all the Apple 'fan boys' (sorry I hate that term) who go on and on and one about how good all Apple products are.
You don't see people knocking Sony, Panasonic etc etc. but I think the reason for that is the lack of people constantly saying how much better
their products are.
Would I buy an Ipad?
No.
Would I like to be given an Ipad?
Yes.
Would I buy an Ipad if it were much cheaper?
probably
About sums it up for me too.
Friends and family have them and rave about them. I wangled one from work as there's no way I'd pay for my own.
Having one is great and they really are very slick for many things, but I still go to my laptop for anything productive!
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eddie99
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| posted on 21/11/12 at 11:04 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ceebmoj
quote:
Originally posted by v8kid
my iphone 4 had a new screen fitted for £20 my the corner shop the same day - hardly dear.
If you ever take the phone to an apple shop they will know and will get decidedly funny about it.
My battery started dieing on my phone, and cracked screen. I got the screen down locally for £30, then took it to apple, they replaced the phone
because of the battery, never noticed the screen had been done by someone else?
They do have good customer service and i say you get what you pay for.
And i agree with above, Take Icloud for instance, backing up and restoring a phone couldnt be made easier than it was when Apple gave me a replacement
phone.
[Edited on 21/11/12 by eddie99]
http://www.elitemotorsporteng.co.uk/
Twitter: @Elitemotoreng
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Elite-Motorsport-Engineering/153409081394323
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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mcerd1
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| posted on 22/11/12 at 09:28 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by splitrivet
quote:
Originally posted by vanepico
quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
Let's not forget that most apple products are still built in china... But they are designed in california! The machined parts we get made at
work are designed in the UK, sent to china to be made, and they are quite a lot of the time wrong. Where it is designed makes bugger all
difference!
Think you'll find they own the factories in China whereas you probably get your stuff made by a Chinese contractor who tells you one thing to
get the contract but delivers another, been there done that.
Cheers,
Bob
sorry but your kidding yourself if you think apple make them themself
I'm fairly sure that Foxconn make most of these things and they never had that great a reputation for making quality prodcucts 
I fairly sure they also make some stuff for amazon, dell, microsoft, nokia, sony, motorola and lots of others too...
personaly I like the high end ASUS laptops (and MB's for my desktops) they cost almost as much as macbook but I think they are every bit as well
made as any apple
win7 is pretty solid and easy to use and I havn't had a virus on any of my PC's for 10 years ! (most of that without running any antivirus
software)
[Edited on 22/11/2012 by mcerd1]
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 22/11/12 at 10:56 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JonnyS
Bought a new mid-range PC laptop. Took 3 hours to download updates before it would start. Next time I turned it on it took another 1 hour of updates.
Drivers needed for this and that. Doesn't like router etc. I'll ignore the look and quality as everyone knows Apple win without even
trying. Dies after a couple of years.
I hate the PC.
Don't say "PC" in this context, say "Windows".
I use a desktop with Linux - after first install it took about 30 minutes to update to the latest software. Since then I get regular updates, but they
run in the background when I allow them to, and they rarely take longer than 2 minutes to download. In 99.99% of updates I don't need to reboot
afterwards.
Contrast that with my Windoze laptop, which I use occasionally. Every time I turn on there's a new update waiting. These often take up to an
hour to download (especially the once-a-month updates) on the same wired network as my Linux box and I have to reboot the laptop 33% of the time.
Rebooting for an update can take up to 30 minutes. By the time it's all finished I've forgotten why I turned the laptop on...
As for Apple - I will agree that they are technically brilliant machines in most cases, especially the desktops and laptops. But their prices are at
the top end of all the options, and their attitude leaves a lot to be desired. The attitude of some Apple fans can often contain a high level of BS
which takes the edge off the whole experience as well!
...and after that final comment I will put my tin hat on and duck down below the parapet. 
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 22/11/12 at 11:09 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
Hmm well I've not used any other tablets other than this but so long as it does it job, so far I've just been discovering how many it can
do. As for cost I think you get what you pay for like cars you can do my usual and just buy something that will get you from A to B but if you want an
Audi you have to pay for it.
That's a very good analogy. Both the iPad and Audis are aspirational lifestyle products that rely on marketing and fashion for their
popularity. Both are functional, though ultimately don't do anything better than some significantly cheaper cars.
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UncleFista
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| posted on 22/11/12 at 11:14 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
quote:
Originally posted by UncleFista
Bit off-topic, but why do Apple phone owners call their phones "iphone" I don't call mine "HTC" I just call it a phone..
Well, HTC is the brand just like Apple is the brand for iPhone. I don't call my phone my "Apple"
I sometimes call it my iPhone or if it is a more specific conversation and I need to clarify then I might call it an iPhone 3 or 4 or 5 or whatever.
Android owners also refer to their S3 or S2 in the same way.
I think it comes down to whether the manufacturer has chosen a memorable product name or not. iPhone is a single product name with a number to reflect
generation. The brand awareness is therefore very strong. Talking about an "evo 4G lte" isn't quite so easy to roll off the tongue
in the case of HTC. Other manufacturers are even worse sometimes.
You can even create your own android product names here: http://androidphonenamegenerator.com
I don't call my phone my "desire" in fact I've never heard anyone but iPhone owners call their phone by it's model
name.
As for Samsung owners calling their phones "s4" I've never heard anything like that
I just find it strange
Tony Bond / UncleFista
Love is like a snowmobile, speeding across the frozen tundra.
Which suddenly flips, pinning you underneath.
At night the ice-weasels come...
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 22/11/12 at 11:14 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mcerd1
sorry but your kidding yourself if you think apple make them themself
I'm fairly sure that Foxconn make most of these things and they never had that great a reputation for making quality prodcucts
I fairly sure they also make some stuff for amazon, dell, microsoft, nokia, sony, motorola and lots of others too...
Correct, the smaller Apple products (iPad, iPhone, iPod etc) are made in China right next to those other brands. The Apple notebooks are made in
Taiwan, right beside a dozen other brands of notebook such as Dell, Sony, Lenovo etc. This tends to stick in the craw of Apple fanboys
[Edited on 22/11/12 by MikeRJ]
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 22/11/12 at 12:28 PM |
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hmm so after all that there is really nothing particularly wrong with the ipad it's just expensive if you want one
the standard maps thing worked well yesterday as a gps, went from Southampton to Aberdeen with it, no issues at all, 10hrs driving and not got lost
once well pleased with that
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thefreak
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| posted on 22/11/12 at 12:43 PM |
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I sit here typing on a Dell laptop with Windows 7, with my HP desktop with Windows 7 next to me and my iPhone 5 on the desk.
I support a prodominatly Windows network all day long. 2003, 2008, Exchange etc, so any playing around with the ins and outs of something is my day
job. In the evening I want something that just works, doesn't need lots of tinkering to get things working. That's why the phone is an
Apple. I'm not a fanboy by any stretch of the imagination but it does make me laugh when HTC/Android users (around 50% of the office of
developers I work with) shout up everytime the debate starts about not being able to access the OS, not being able to upgrade the RAM, not being able
to install custom apps.
Sorry, I don't want to! I want the thing to connect to my email when I need to, to play games when I'm bored, to access the internet when
I can't remember the name of some actor, to listen to some music when I'm walking into work.
It does all that without any dicking around, and does it well with a very smooth, easy to use interface.
Would I have an iPad. Probably not as there isn't room in my life for one. I prefer the full size keyboard and screen interface of the laptop
and the ability to plug it into hardware if I need to as that's my job. If my job was creating reports, presentations and documents for someone,
then an iPad may be better suited as that's exactly what it would do, and it would do it well without giving me grief about not enough RAM
Oh, and out of 4 developers, 2 have iPhones and 2 have HTCs. The iPhone owners have them just because they're nice and easy and don't need
more time spending on them.
The other 2 have Andriods so they can tinker... but they never do as they can't be bothered, it's their day job why would they do it at
home too!
[Edited on 22-11-12 by thefreak]
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JoelP
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| posted on 22/11/12 at 01:16 PM |
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Im currently deciding what tablet to get. Undecided because i want a nice one for me, but its important the kids learn to use this stuff so i wouldnt
mind a cheap disposable one (they are 3 and 1 so wreck things quickly). Might get 2. Ipad is actually cheaper than i expected, since the phones cost
£700 i expected the tabs to be a bit more, but they seem to start at 400. Quite tempted by the nexus 10; seems better spec than the ipad4 but looks
loads cheaper in terms of quality, but is only about 80 cheaper. One deciding factor though is that i know that i hate itunes...
Beware! Bourettes is binfectious.
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thefreak
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| posted on 22/11/12 at 01:18 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
One deciding factor though is that i know that i hate itunes...
What's up with itunes? Is it a bad experience, or just lack of understanding of how it works? My experience with users is most of the time
it's one or the other
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mcerd1
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| posted on 22/11/12 at 01:22 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JonnyS
Bought a new mid-range PC laptop. Took 3 hours to download updates before it would start. Next time I turned it on it took another 1 hour of updates.
Drivers needed for this and that. Doesn't like router etc. I'll ignore the look and quality as everyone knows Apple win without even
trying. Dies after a couple of years.
I hate the PC.
^^sounds like you just need to buy a better windows PC
if you buy one thats sat on a shelf for 2 years its bound to need updates (its anoying but hardly the end of the world)
if all your hardware is half decent quality from well supported brands (that doesn't always mean more expencive) then you'll have far less
or even no driver issues
and a top quaility PC can be better made and look just as good as an apple, but won't be much cheaper than an apple
if you buy a £300-500 laptop how is that ever supposed to compair to a £1000-1200 macbook ?
also good PC's don't die after a couple of years - mine is now a full 10 years old and going strong ! (if a bit slow these days )
I'm still not saying apples are bad, but if your compairing them to PC's then at least pick a PC thats in the same ballpark !
[Edited on 22/11/2012 by mcerd1]
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JoelP
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| posted on 22/11/12 at 01:23 PM |
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definately lack of understanding! It was just too different to the WMP and file systems im used to. You'd try and do things and it just wouldnt
let you (i forget what, this was 5 years ago with an ipod). Tempted to get both but the missus really doesnt need one and i cant justify both for me
alone.
Beware! Bourettes is binfectious.
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thefreak
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| posted on 22/11/12 at 01:25 PM |
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Ah, that's the issue then.
WMP was just that, a player.
iTunes happily takes over the management and playlist creation for music, but that's about it. The rest is quite straight forward like
backups/restores/updates. App syncing.
You just have to remember to untick the box which is on as default to copy all your music into itunes. Just link it to your current folder structure
and create playlists yourself.
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