simes43
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| posted on 14/1/08 at 05:04 PM |
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Spares.... (Again sensible.. list below)
H.T leads
Spark plugs
Oil pump
Carb
Alternator
Various gaskets
2" gaffer tape
Distributer cap
C Spanner
Tyre pressure gauge
Foot pump
Tie wraps
Latex gloves
Radiator cap
I know who to come to when my car breaks!
If the document can be kept electronic then size will not matter so much.
I would suggest carrying spares that could be damaged in a light frontal shunt, like car specific track rods and wishbones etc over Alternator, Oil
pump, Carb as they rarely go wrong and can be expensive.
A can of tyre weld for the trailer is now a must for Team Wood. A puncture on the way to and from a circuit is a nightmare
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pointy
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| posted on 14/1/08 at 05:17 PM |
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Simon,
I dont break all those bits in 1 go (yet)
Ok I will add those bits to the spares.
Anything you think should be added to the headings or removed.
Electronic version good idea.
I am more than happy to put together a hard copy in a folder but need to go through each section and get the details.
Thoughts again please
Andy
[Edited on 14/1/08 by pointy]
[Edited on 14/1/08 by pointy]
[Edited on 14/1/08 by pointy]
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Richd
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| posted on 14/1/08 at 06:28 PM |
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Andy
Somewhere safe for the car keys eh? 
or a spare set
Cheers
Rich
[Edited on 14/1/08 by Richd]
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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simes43
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| posted on 14/1/08 at 07:04 PM |
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AndyP Heres an entry on tyres I have just hashed out for the technical bit. Have a read and let me know if it would have helped you.
Tyres
There is an abundance of theories written on tyres and their behaviour. The following hopefully gives you enough information to understand the basic
principles and how they relate to the Locost racing series.
Buying and Buffing
Before ordering tyres, make sure that the supplier can offer a buffing service. Having an a539 scrubbed/buffed from new will help control the treads
contact patch, helping with grip levels and reducing heat build up, giving a more consistently handling car. A set of new Yokohama a539's will
last for a season, even when buffed to 4 to 5mm. The tyres will lose some performance over a year, but not by very much.
Remember to ask for the wheel weights to be placed inside the wheel to stop them being knocked off in the heat of battle.
20 to 30 minutes of medium pace running, split into two periods, will give the tyre a valuable heat cycle. Once run in, avoid swapping tyres front to
rear or from one side to another, as the car can be unbalanced due to the different wear rates each corner experiences.
Also avoid, if at all possible, filling tyres with air on damp/wet days. Excess moisture will heat the tyres carcass far faster and potentially the
tyres grip level will be lessened.
Tyre Pressure and Temperature
Having a good pressure gauge is invaluable, a temperature gauge can be handy too. It is good practice to make sure the tyres are at the right pressure
before each run and to take the pressure immediately after each session. The information can be written down using the set up sheet provided
All chassis are different and the way they are set up is too. Working on starting from a cold reading, a pressure range between 20 and 30 psi will
need to be tried and tested against the stop watch, starting from the lower reading. Too low a pressure could mean the tyre never reaches a high
enough temperature, too high and the car will respond early in a race but become harder to control towards the end.
Try to find a balance between the two. By looking at lap times, if everything else is equal, then the times will reach a high point early or later on
during a session or race. Early on, there is too much pressure in the tyre, late equals too little.
Knowing tyre temperature across the tread can help find the the optimum pressures and help diagnose handling issues. If the tyre is warmer towards the
edges of the tread, too little pressure or the suspension maybe too soft, higher in the middle, too much pressure. If the tyre starts to go blue then
it has gone beyond its operational temperature level.
The 750MC very rarely give the Locost class a warm up lap before a race, so its worth getting used to driving on cold tyres. Try to get used to
driving on cold tyres as much as possible as knowing what grip levels you have and how easily the front can lock up is useful knowledge once the flag
drops. A little spin of the wheels and a bit of weaving before the line can get a little temperature in the tyres, however, I never told you that!
During practice it is worth warming the tyres for a couple of laps before you go for a hot lap. Use the out-lap to increase temperature in both the
tyres and the brakes.
Its worth noting that a drop in tyre pressure will change the corner weight and any suspension change may require a rethink of the pressures to be
used.
As you develop the car and yourself, it will be worth revisiting the tyre pressure subject again and again. More experienced racers will avoid using
there tyres maximum grip levels early in a race so that they can race faster towards the finish when others maybe experiencing a lack of grip.
Wets
If new unbuffed tyres are going to be used, make sure that the outer wax coating is removed. A short test session will take this layer off. Failure to
do so will turn most circuits into an ice rink.
To save money in the early days, a 4 or 5 mm tyre can be used in the wet and the dry. The tread depth of a new tyre would only really be used in
monsoon conditions, which would mean a postponement of the event to when the level of standing water has subsided.
There is no substitute for having a set of both, just a little less initial outlay.
An increase in tyre pressure can help retain temperature in mixed conditions and open the tread pattern to increase the amount of water that can be
shipped by each tyre.
Housekeeping.
Always check tyres for cuts and damage between sessions and check the tyre pressures once they have cooled for potential punctures.
Always write down the pressures you settled with after an event. Most circuits do not require much in the way of changes to pressure, however, some
do!
[Edited on 14/1/08 by simes43]
[Edited on 14/1/08 by simes43]
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simes43
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| posted on 14/1/08 at 07:30 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by procomp
Hi yep wasting money is definitely important to newcomers. Had a guy in on sat after the show and couldn't believe he missed the piston offer. A
£75 saving could have been made.
Found the previous setup sheets and info that was available by DES&Al
LINK HERE Some of it maybe of help maybe.
Graham would be an ideal candidate for the position. ( Anyone told him he has a new job )
So plenty of good ideas floating then. Is Declan looking at collating it all together etc or leaving it open till say after the AFD's. Robin
could obviously provide a list of newcomers. Although some may already be experienced. But i think through the year there should be 2-3 newcomers
with no experience who would i am sure appreciate this new scheme.
Cheers Matt@P
The Des stuff can be nicked to make life easier.
I would recommend the improving the lap stuff be placed in a very dark room unless you have a full time race engineer, driver coach and a week of
testing booked.
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pointy
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| posted on 14/1/08 at 08:16 PM |
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Fantastic Simon,
I understood all of it and only practice and track time will enable novice to reap the benefits, but it is an excellent begginners guide and worth
printing in full.
I had a look at des and Als site which I shall erm Borrow parts of.
Lots of work now.
Could do with other peoples input ref Contact numbers in section 1 and a list of Reccommended Trackday companies. Javalin, Book-a-track and MSN are 3
I have used, any others.
Andy p
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Rob Palin
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| posted on 14/1/08 at 09:44 PM |
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Depends where you're located & you're availability, but i would heartily recommend the Trackzone sessions that Donington run on Friday
evenings during the summer. They're much cheaper than going during the day and each time i've gone it's been 3 hours' open
pitlane (though it does officially depend on turnout).
The downside is that although we can keep up with pretty much anything there through the corners, and most people will jump out of the way when they
see a race car coming up behind them, we get murdered on the straights. Unfortunately the rules of the session state that you can only overtake on
the straights, so it's a bit awkward for us.
I felt so ashamed once when rocketing up behind a Citroen Picasso MPV through McLeans & Coppice only to find that when he moved aside on the back
straight i couldn't overtake him until he obligingly lifted. 
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TMC Motorsport
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| posted on 14/1/08 at 10:06 PM |
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Rob, didnt you then get a ridiculous tow and post something like a 1m27 lap??
As for all that is written above its shaping up really nicely. If it is done in time, perhaps a chapter on conducting a test day and what process to
go through with each session would be useful? Maybe aimed specifically at the 750MC test at Mallory in March?
Matt
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pointy
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| posted on 15/1/08 at 04:49 PM |
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Rob/Matt C
Im beavering away with the info trying to get it done to pass on to our representative and if Simon W is ok I would like to present it to Robin knight
as this could be used for all formulas of motorsport..!!!.but for now just keep the info coming for our class.
I dont want to create war and peace but an informative and helpful Folder/\booklet (whatever) for a novice to have.
Andy p
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Rob Palin
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| posted on 15/1/08 at 05:49 PM |
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Matt - it was a 1:28.4 and so that was some consolation for the humiliation.
It's just a shame that i don't have a big MPV towing me around all the tracks as i'd probably do a lot better than i do now!
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TMC Motorsport
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| posted on 15/1/08 at 06:30 PM |
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Andy,
Im sure your work is going to be massively appreciated! How about posting a draft copy on here (pdf for download if possible?) for the experienced
hands to take a look at and then add to if needs be? We will all have our own ideas of what should and shouldnt be included but we may come up with
something new and useful.
It might also be worth including Robin from this stage as well and emailing him the same draft copy so he is aware of whats going on and can offer
input from an official point of view.
Matt
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pointy
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| posted on 15/1/08 at 08:06 PM |
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Matt,
great idea about posting however may need some assistance putting it on as a PDF file.
Starting to fit together but will need more ideas to fill the headings.
A good idea to contact Robin, perhaps he could give me the important numbers section.
Andy
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simes43
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| posted on 15/1/08 at 08:20 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by pointy
Matt,
great idea about posting however may need some assistance putting it on as a PDF file.
Starting to fit together but will need more ideas to fill the headings.
A good idea to contact Robin, perhaps he could give me the important numbers section.
Andy
Try http://www.cutepdf.com/ its a free pdf tool and very easy to use.
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Richd
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| posted on 16/1/08 at 12:08 PM |
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A little bit of input from hectic prior experience
Race Day for Novices
1. Arrive early, the night before if possible.
2. A good habit is to stick the finals paperwork inside your towcar window or the tent, camper, transit. This saves hunting around trying to find out
what time you can be scrutineered.
3. Sign on as soon as you possibly can. Remember:
a. Race Licence
b. Club Membership card
c. Transponder Number (or money to rent one)
4. New to circuit briefing – Go to the earliest one you can (its all about giving yourself time to breathe before you venture out on track. – Be
careful here, the briefing at Brands is a 250 metre run away from the paddock.
5. Have car checked over & fuelled up for qualifying before the scrutineering starts.
6. Scrutineering. As well as the car you will need your race suit and helmet checked. The first time you use the helmet it will need to be given an
MSA sticker. Some will charge £1.25 or so, others will let you off it. Listen to what the scrutineer says regarding your car and act on it
accordingly. They do occasionally check to make sure their advice has been taken.
7. Make a note of competitors close by in the paddock whom you know will be in the same practice session as you (If they start warming the car up you
may want to get ready yourself – Don’t be rushed).
8. Listen to all the tannoy announcements, things can change.
9. As a novice you may feel you want to go out on track near the back of the pack – this will give you two or three laps to familiarise yourself with
the circuit before you get caught by the quicker guys. If this is the case, let the marshall know in the assembly area, they will oblige.
10. At every stage, try and remain relaxed and above all, enjoy yourself.
I’ve always enjoyed myself, I don’t think I’ve ever managed to stay relaxed.
Oh, and don't forget your wife/girlfriend/partner/mother they are probably more nervous than you and will need a hug occasionally through all
this.
[Edited on 16/1/08 by Richd]
[Edited on 16/1/08 by Richd]
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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pointy
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| posted on 16/1/08 at 04:15 PM |
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Rich
All duly noted and will be incorporated within the pack.
Andy
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simes43
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| posted on 16/1/08 at 04:43 PM |
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I wished I had started using a video camera in the early days, if you can find a cheap one with a solid mount then its great to watch and work out how
it all went right or wrong for next time.
You need a form and for the scruits to check it but its well worth the trouble.
Combining it with a record of your lap times and you can become a datalogging god overnight.
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Robster
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| posted on 17/1/08 at 01:25 PM |
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As a newbie who has absolutely no experience of circuit racing, I have been following this thread with interest.
Having passed my ARDS and mostly finished the car build , the main thing that has been bothering me is the first race meeting! How very timely...
Already some very useful advice on this thread, I think having a "novice booklet" would be invaluable in helping me be in the right place
at the right time with the right bits on the day, & so try to enjoy myself.
Buddy idea is also a goodun - anyone want to look after me?
Cheers,
Rob.
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simes43
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| posted on 17/1/08 at 01:41 PM |
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Hi Rob
It has not been decided how the allocation will work and how official the buddy stuff will be.
However, the drivers rep and last years champion, Declan lives in Herts which maybe of interest.
Si
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D Beddows
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| posted on 19/1/08 at 02:53 AM |
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I have been watching this thread - I haven't contributed so far because I'm not really involved in Locost Racing anymore but Mr Woods
u2u'd me asking if I would be willing to contribute something to the newcomer booklet idea. As I spent more of my life than was probably
sensible building and repairing cars for Brett Townsend (6 years?), Locost racing is very close to my heart so I'm happy to help in any way I
can.
Our first race was Brands Hatch in the first year of the championship and we were complete and utter novices. It was a combination of the worst day
ever: - Brands Hatch in the pouring rain, which was bad enough, but we also had to go skip diving behind the industrial units to get scrap metal to
panel over the back of the car (and borrow Ron Champions cordless drill to fit it - that shows how long ago it was :-) ) otherwise the scruitiners
wouldn't let Brett race - and one of our best days ever: - the car lasted the race distance first time out and Brett went from last on the grid
(14th or something in those days) to 7th at the end of the race after only ever having driven the car for the 3 laps of qualifying he only just
managed to get in. So I know exactly what it's like to turn up knowing absolutely nothing with a car that fails sruitineering..........
Things are different nowadays because you've got places like this to ask questions and people who've been there and done that to answer
them so I wonder just how much actual technical information needs to be included....... after all by the time you get the booklet you've
probably finished building the car and you really just need to get out and race it to see what needs sorting out - and there will almost certainly be
a lot but you need to be out there to find out exactly what and the best Locost Racing resource is, and always has been, the Locost paddock -
you'll find some great people there and 99% of them will go out of their way to help you in any way they can
The what to take with you list is a great idea (no ones mentioned trying to cover your car with a tarpaulin while towing it on a trailer yet though -
trust me its just not worth the effort  ) - another would be simple maps of circuit paddocks showing where the scruitineering bay/weighbridge/race
control/toilets are because it's not always obvious (Donnington and Brands spring to mind here especialy) Simons tyre stuff is good and
I'll contribute something to explain why your car has just overheated and what you need to do about it - I would argue that finding your way
around and actually being there (even if your car is rubbish) is much more important at first however
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simes43
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| posted on 19/1/08 at 11:30 AM |
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With Rob Palin writing a section on aero and Dave's keeping it cool piece, combined with RichD and AndyP's work the booklet will hopefully
start to take shape over the next few weeks.
In regards to how technical the booklet becomes, I agree that it should not become a bible.
I do believe that new drivers/ builders will appreciate having a basis to work from when it comes to spending money once and correctly.
Using the transmission as an example, a reconditioned GT box with a 4.1 diff (using a procomp crush replacement thingy)is a very good compromise and
set up. The pair will be near enough spot on everywhere we race.
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simes43
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| posted on 1/2/08 at 11:32 AM |
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RichD, AndyP
Here's a section on braking for the file. It will probably need some work as I wrote it!
Brakes
The braking system on a Locost consists of some old style rear drums and a pair of solid discs utilising the ubiquitous M16 calliper. The system is
excellent when set up correctly.
Apart from the benefits of unsprung weight, there is no reason to wish for an upgraded solution.
Pads and Fluid
Before an event, pads should be brought up to temperature and allowed to cool before being used in anger. Two popular types, EBC’s Green Stuff and
Mintex’s 1144 have , especially in the case of the 1144, require a complete cycle of running in instructions be adhered to before the pad will be
fully operative. Failure to do the heat cycle step will usually render the pads ineffective.
An upgrade in fluid is a must, however avoid using the very high spec blends as they are usually designed for full race car brake applications. The
high end stuff eats everything in its path and requires braking systems to be junked at the end of each system. Castrol Super plus (make sure it’s the
plus)brake fluid works well for our application.
Expect to change the pads two or three times a year and change the fluid at the same time.
The disc width size rules renders removing the face to 11cm from a standard 13 cm a as real nice to have. I would leave the discs alone and
concentrate on other areas as some pads will thin a disc quickly enough.
One reason that many find their braking system far from optimal, is that they have not employed a bias bar or lever into the system. For the car to
stop in a balanced manner, a 60 to 40 or 70 to 30 or 80 to 20 brake bias percentage split needs to be introduced with the higher number applied to the
front. A trip to an MOT centre is must to get the balance right and to get an idea on what amount of change a twist on the knob will create. The MOT
centre will also be able to tell you how much braking each wheel has individually and in relation to its same axle partner. This test should be
carried out after corner weighting the car.
Increasing bias to the rear when its wet can be beneficial , although probably only worth trying at a test day. At no point wet or dry should the cars
rear brakes lock before the fronts.
Standard FOMOCO rear shoes should be used. There is no need to upgrade these items as they are hardly used in comparison to the front pads. Keep an
eye on them as they can be easily forgotten!
The final piece of set up relates to pedal position. Aim for the accelerator pedal to be at the same height as the brake pedal when it is at full
working level compression (which is not very much with the un-servo assisted system deployed). This adjustment will allow you to move your foot across
to the accelerator after breaking has been completed in a smooth movement.
On the track
Without a warm up lap, the brakes need to work from the beginning of a practice session or race. This renders most expensive pads incompatible with
our style of racing as they need a high temperature level before they start working effectively and are often designed for heavy cars (weight and
aero) that will often be using slick tyres not our hard as nails a539.
A trick to generate heat at the start of a session is to apply left foot brake pressure and add a little handbrake when trundling down the pit lane or
when travelling to your grid spot. This will go someway to avoid cold brake lock ups at the start.
Avoid using the handbrake or leaving your foot on the brakes after a session. The contact can potentially create two issues: the brake fluid will boil
, but more importantly, the pad surface will fuse onto the disc’s surface. This fusion will damage the pad creating a glaze and create disc warp. The
disc does not warp (old wives tail), it just becomes unbalanced due to the pad deposits being transferred to the discs surface.
With no ABS to save you, having the brakes set up correctly should be an absolute priority and will increase the cars track performance measurably
against the clock.
[Edited on 1/2/08 by simes43]
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Richd
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| posted on 1/2/08 at 02:54 PM |
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quote:
Using the transmission as an example, a reconditioned GT box with a 4.1 diff (using a procomp crush replacement thingy)is a very
good compromise and set up.
Whats that? Have I got one? Do I need one? Closed season boredom is setting in.
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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procomp
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| posted on 1/2/08 at 03:29 PM |
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Hi quick explanation of the solid/crush tube.
In the diff on the pinion shaft you have a crush-able spacer as std which is used to set the preload on the pinion bearings. When the diff is being
used in competition where we are on and of with the acceleration hard and a lot more often than it was intended for originally. It allows the
crush-able spacer to continue to crush and leaves the pinion bearing with little / no preload. This also means that the backlash and engagement of the
crown wheel and pinion are no longer correct. All in all it leads to a very short life for the diff unit.
Replacing the crush-able spacer with a solid item eliminates the problem and gives the diff a much longer life. With a locost assuming the correct oil
level and type is being used. It should enable the diff to last the life time of the car. It ts a must when the escort diff is being used on more
powerful kitcars with high HP. But when done it enables the use of 250+HP to be used. You just have to sort the half shafts then  .
There are quite a few places capable of doing this procedure as it is quite common practice. But it dose take time and patience to get it set up
correctly. Typically it should add no more than £20-£30 to your diff rebuild costs. And with the diffs becoming harder to find it is well worth the
small extra cost given the extra life span the diff benefits.
As a tip one of the first signs of the crush-able space failing is when you get oil coming past the front seal. As the preload diminishes it allows
the pinion to rotate off centre and allow the oil past the seal.
HTH cheers Matt
 
Basics of the solid spacer conversion for english axle diffs. Increaces reliability on higher bhp applications.
[/img]
[Edited on 1/2/08 by procomp]
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simes43
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| posted on 1/2/08 at 06:47 PM |
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Matt can you bring one for me to the 750mc meeting on the 17th.
What torque setting do you set them up with.
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