Jon Ison
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| posted on 22/11/09 at 10:35 AM |
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Should BEC's be banned from the GOME 6 hour ?
Apparently banned due to "speed differential" ?
You could if you wish place a message of support Here please keep it constructive and non offensive.
Personally I think its a bit harsh considering allegedly they blow up after 1/2 an hour and it is ok to enter with an Ariel Atom for instance, not
known for been a tortoise of a car.
[Edited on 22/11/09 by Jon Ison]
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JoelP
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| posted on 22/11/09 at 10:37 AM |
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what a daft idea, are they really suggesting this?
Beware! Bourettes is binfectious.
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Richard Quinn
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| posted on 22/11/09 at 10:58 AM |
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That's how I read it too. What speed differential is there really between a BEC and CEC around a circuit? It does seem a little crazy when most
other disciplines, even with engine capacity based classes (which potentially puts car and bike engines together) can make it work!
ETA - Bernie E hasn't got involved has he?
[Edited on 22/11/09 by Richard Quinn]
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mark chandler
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| posted on 22/11/09 at 11:01 AM |
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BEC's have a long history in motoring, a lot further than 3 wheeled morgan's which were available in kit form and would also be banned.
Given that there is also the RGB race series and from results a blade powered car around Mallory is comparable per lap to say a V8 westfield it is
indeed strange.
It really makes little sense to ban road going cars on the basis of the speed they can travel when with investment you can make any car really
fast.
I do struggle to understand this ruling when you allow LS1 powered lola replica,s, Elise's because they are plastic and any engined 7 apart
from BEC power!
Regards Mark
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jollygreengiant
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| posted on 22/11/09 at 11:26 AM |
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obviously they have not had experience of Madteg's 'slow' CEC.
Beware of the Goldfish in the tulip mines. The ONLY defence against them is smoking peanut butter sandwiches.
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PAUL FISHER
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| posted on 22/11/09 at 11:55 AM |
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It appears very naive of the organisers to ban BEC'S,I would expect something like that from your average joe public organising a event,but not
a professional motoring body.
As I said on the other thread.
Banning BEC's for that reason makes no sense at all on a endurance event,if the object of the day is to do 240 laps at a average speed of just
54mph,including refueling stops etc,it makes no difference if you in a BEC or a CEC.
If there argument is speed differential,
if you compare lap times in the 750mc,the car engined kit car class lap record is around 49 seconds,and the RGB lap record is around 48 seconds,both
averaging almost 100mph,but there are other cars which are allowed in the event which in the right hands capable of lapping faster than both of these.
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ReMan
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| posted on 22/11/09 at 12:06 PM |
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BEC Power to weight jealousy raises it's ugly CEC head again 
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gottabedone
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| posted on 22/11/09 at 01:00 PM |
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"The Six Hour 2010 is an endurance test it is not a motor sporting competition".
So you can enter hand built and specials and the aim is to average 54mph......................surely it doesn't matter what you drive as speed
has already been taken out of the equasion. You can enter a VX220 or a Zonda but not a BEC?..............a mad turbo'd or V8 Dax but not a BEC
They haven't even attempted to explain their "logic"
Steve
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oldtimer
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| posted on 22/11/09 at 01:27 PM |
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As a CEC builder I have just voted for BECs being allowed. There seems no logic to their being banned. Is it that the BEC fraternity are perceived as
hooning it around the circuit and not trying to average their speed to 54 mph? - if so that is an individual driver issue, not a vehicle class issue.
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djtom
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| posted on 22/11/09 at 01:52 PM |
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Seems daft to me. Having competed in the last one, there was a 7 litre Gardiner Douglas T70 replica that wasn't exactly slow, Hicost had his
400-and-something bhp cossie engined seven, and the clutch of expensive looking caterhams with highly tuned C20XE lumps weren't exactly
pedestrian. On this basis, banning BECs on the grounds of speed differential seems crazy.
In addition, if they enforce this I've lost my team partner car. I know he wants to build a CEC anyway, but I don't think this was the
excuse he was waiting for....
Message of support left on the GOME message board.
[Edited on 22/11/09 by djtom]
[Edited on 22/11/09 by djtom]
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Dangle_kt
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| posted on 22/11/09 at 02:44 PM |
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Hi jon, so I hadn't misread the rules then.... Dam. Was hoping it was my misunderstanding when I mentioned it.
Didn't know there was a gome board, so I'll pop over and put a polite post up.
Looks like my first venture to the event has been put on it's ar5e before it starts! 
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TimC
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| posted on 22/11/09 at 03:27 PM |
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Jon,
Unfortunatelu I fear that it is a moot point; rather like the Henry-handball affair.
I cant help wondering how much your in-car footage has contributed to the decision. The fact is though, if you put Ison Snr and Jnr in a quickish cec
the speed differential vis-a-vis some of last years entrants would be the same.
Good luck though.
TC
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scutter
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| posted on 22/11/09 at 03:48 PM |
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This is quite stupid,
Does it mean they are going to ban James Miles in his Cossie powered Locost because he's racing against the Liege with it's 850cc reliant
engine!
It seems to remove the fun factor of the event, whilst non competative a little rivalry makes it fun.
Wondering whether to go or not now.
ATB Dan.
The less I worked, the more i liked it.
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 22/11/09 at 04:01 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by TimC
Jon,
Unfortunately I fear that it is a moot point; rather like the Henry-handball affair.
TC
mmmmmm bit like the 10th place result to, we know how many laps where covered after all, but the fact one of the time sheets ended up as paper mache
plastered all over someones helmet (crash helmet) explains that away, we entered into the true spirit of the event, took all the knocks on the chin
without one complaint, never put a spanner on the car but di put spanners on plenty around us (CECS in bother) to keep them going.
In car footage ? No doubt used to promote the 2010 event ? An event the car the footage comes from is banned ?
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andrew.carwithen
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| posted on 22/11/09 at 05:17 PM |
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Just got back from Exeter show where I had a flyer on this event posted on my car. Somewhat intrigued (never heard of this before now) thought
I'd enquire further on the GOME stand in the main hall (after all, £125 for six hours on a track seemed good value)
Chap (can't remember his name) was quite amenable when I told him I have a Tiger Avon (that was until he found out what engine it has)
You see, having never done a trackday or anything of that ilk, I happened to enquire what was the 'mortality rate' amongst BEC's
during such an endurance race, to which he asked
'Oh!, Do you have a bike engine? - 'cos we have an issue with them due to the speed differential on a track - especially through the
chicanes..' (he mentioned you by name, Jon)
When I protested that it's only a Fireblade pumping out a modest 130bhp at most, he said 'Aha! see! there lies the problem! (i.e. my
deeming it 'only a Fireblade' )
He's utterly convinced I'd have a huge unfair advantage over CEC's irrespective of its modest power output and so it seems I'm
banned even before I was to enter.
(Still, its nice to feel I can still be deemed to be a 'rebel' at 45 yrs old - Haven't been banned from anywhere since my biking
days some 25 years ago!!!   )
Anyway, am I being a bit thick - but what does it matter what engine you have if the idea is to AVERAGE some 54mph per lap? -not try to attain a
highest speed per lap?
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mangogrooveworkshop
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| posted on 22/11/09 at 05:30 PM |
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To fast 2 race tshirts are now for sale.
Mark says it
Author: Mark Duncan (Calvinx) (Get it sorted please)
Subject: common sense.......
who ever thought up the idea to ban a B.E.C. kit car must vbe very afraid of these thing, or very misinformed, please allow common sense to prevail.
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oldtimer
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| posted on 22/11/09 at 05:44 PM |
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Having done a bit of reading and youtube viewing I guess my original thoughts are confirmed. I think banning CECs is a bad idea, the idea was that
this event should be a moderately paced endurance race, not a cheap track day event. I'm sure that is what the organisers want and expect. So
this should be treated as a driver issue not a vehicle class issue.
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 22/11/09 at 06:17 PM |
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But...........
Almost every individual hour of the 6 was cut short for various incidents leaving I cant remember exactly but say for example 30 minutes to get both
cars out twice once with each driver, so 4 separate visits to the track per team in what was left of your allotted time.
Ok, lets talk sensibly, 1 minute a lap, that's 40 minutes gone ?
Pull into pits four times que to be clocked and signed in ?
Get time sheet from car to car in pits ?
Que to get back signed back out and onto track ?
All x 4, the other 20minutes soon disappear ?
Remember it was peeing down with rain for the first 3 hours not many completed the mandatory 40 laps per hour before lunch.
Chicane ? It was removed in the afternoon, is that why ?
I'm sorry but to complete the 40 laps you need to be around the 1 minute a lap mark which whilst not full chat is not moderately paced either,
out target one 1 minute laps which is what we paced ourselves at we could have gone quicker but been an endurance event thought we better pace
ourselves.
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mark chandler
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| posted on 22/11/09 at 07:35 PM |
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I also watched the vids, I just see courteous driving in very wet conditions, not out of control tail wagging and aggressive behaviour.
Its one thing to watch cars being overtaken, how many other cars were following Jon and going past the slow traffic as well?
For me its still simple, spending lots of money does not make you fast, it does however make you scared of pushing your car ....
I would appear that it has become a case of my bat and ball, if you beat me I do not want to play with you any more.
I stupidly went out on lap 4, not because I was going flat out, someone in front had overfilled there car with fuel (I would guess because refuelling
is a site pump only activity) so was splashing it over the track, I just hit the slippery stuff and fell off.
First time I have ever fallen off a track BTW.....
Also Jon had equipped his car with new tyres for the event, perhaps this advantage should be removed as well as he is now safer in the wet.
It’s all very sad indeed....
[Edited on 22/11/09 by mark chandler]
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oldtimer
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| posted on 22/11/09 at 10:49 PM |
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Guys, I wasn't there and don't know what it was like. I disagree with a blanket ban on BECs. But, the organisers must have some cause for
concern and have directed that concern badly. I am not pointing the finger at anyone - I don't have any reason to.
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aitch
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| posted on 9/12/09 at 05:44 PM |
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rediculous
just simply rediculous
some BEC's are faster than some CEC's
and vice versa
no sense at all
aitch
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