Westy1994
|
| posted on 5/8/12 at 01:40 PM |
|
|
Soft top to windscreen fastening.
After a few short runs out the last few days, I really need to get some sort of soft top sorted out, as I got pretty wet on each occasion. I have an
old Westy hood but I need to sort out the fasteners on the screen frame, the Westy hood uses Tenax fasteners, but in order to fit those to my screen
frame I will need to take the frame to bits and remove the glass to fit them, I would have thought.
I think it may be MNR, but one car has a clever way of getting around this by using a channel that fits over the screen frame and locks on using
overcentre clips, despite some googling I can't find any decent pics of the hood and fastener system, If someone has this type of hood fitment,
I would be very grateful if you could upload some closeups of the screen frame, channel and retention methods used.
I suppose the Tenax route may be the best way, I just really don't want to risk breaking the glass or any other disasters that may occur.
Any other suggestions welcomed.
Thanks guys.
Rich
|
|
|
|
|
designer
|
| posted on 5/8/12 at 02:00 PM |
|
|
Isn't the channel method the same as used on caravan awnings? Try a caravan supplier.
|
|
|
Westy1994
|
| posted on 5/8/12 at 02:15 PM |
|
|
I'm not sure, I was planning to make a copy of the profile of the frame in either glass or carbon fibre, then use that either sewn into or
stuck/fastened to the hood, this then leaves the frame without anything attached to it whilst a hood is not fitted. I just needed some pics of how
folks have fitted the overcentre clips and what it all looks like when done. I also have plans for a hardtop which can use the same style of
channel.
I have read about the caravan awning channel and that is another good option I guess. I am just trying to avoid having to take the screen assy to
bits.
|
|
|
Slimy38
|
| posted on 5/8/12 at 02:35 PM |
|
|
I kind of know the fixing you're on about, unfortunately I have no idea what to search for to get you an image. I actually think it was used on
a production car from my dad's era, but the only soft top he had was a Triumph Stag and it's not on that car. The 'loop' for
the clip was fitted to the end of the soft top channel, a couple of inches down on the side of the windscreen. The channel was dropped on to the
frame, the loops engage with the clips and the clips pulled it tight.
But one thought did occur to me. Even if you go with the overcentre clips, you still need to fix them into the frame, so you'll still need to
remove the frame and glass anyway?
|
|
|
Westy1994
|
| posted on 5/8/12 at 02:39 PM |
|
|
No, the overcentre clips would attach to the steel screen suppport, rather than the alloy screen frame, the supports I have come quite high up the
frame and I have lots of space to attach a clip. I did used to have a Triumph Spitfire that used a turnbuckle affair, but that requires quite a wide
frame top, so cant be used on a 7 type frame, which is only thin.
|
|
|
Slimy38
|
| posted on 5/8/12 at 02:56 PM |
|
|
Here's one link I found;
http://www.secondstrike.com/Technical/Mkiii_ThreeWindowSoftTop.pdf
It has just one single picture of how the overcentre clip is fitted, along with a bit of text on how to put it on?
|
|
|
Westy1994
|
| posted on 5/8/12 at 03:27 PM |
|
|
Ahhh, YES, thank you, well found. That is exactly what I had in mind, that last photo on page 3 is what I was proposing to do, I never thought to look
at other kitcars other than 7's, DUR.... 
|
|
|
Slimy38
|
| posted on 5/8/12 at 03:51 PM |
|
|
I think I searched for 'soft top overcentre', I've found Google occasionally responds better to a suitably cryptic search. The loop
coming off the end of the channel was how I remembered it, I just got the location of the clip being on the screen rather than on the hood.
|
|
|
Chippy
|
| posted on 5/8/12 at 04:09 PM |
|
|
Pretty sure that Dax use this system, but also use a round top screen frame. Did a Google but couldn't find anything. HTH Ray
To make a car go faster, just add lightness. Colin Chapman - OR - fit a bigger engine. Chippy
|
|
|
SteveWalker
|
| posted on 5/8/12 at 04:50 PM |
|
|
I've been thinking of going this route when I refit my weather gear, but how do you bend u-channel?
|
|
|
Slimy38
|
| posted on 5/8/12 at 05:27 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by SteveWalker
I've been thinking of going this route when I refit my weather gear, but how do you bend u-channel?
I believe the first Ron Champion book 'how to build a sports car for £250' explains a method of bending aluminium U channel for the
windscreen frame. You use a wooden former in the shape of the screen, and use a metal bar to bend the U channel round the former. The book probably
explains it better! 
[Edited on 5/8/12 by Slimy38]
|
|
|
Westy1994
|
| posted on 5/8/12 at 05:32 PM |
|
|
Yes, bending a 'U' channel would be very hard without kinking it I would think, which is why I am now going to take a mould of the frame
with fibreglass and use this as the channel that the fabric will fasten to, I will get some stuff this week and post up some pics if anyone is
interested. I will have to get some clips first as they will dictate how the ' ends' are finished off. Not sure whether to start again on
the hood or modify the existing Westy one?. it is quite an old one and does have a few small holes in it, so I will see how that goes.
ETA
quote:
I believe the first Ron Champion book 'how to build a sports car for £250' explains a method of bending aluminium U channel for the
windscreen frame. You use a wooden former in the shape of the screen, and use a metal bar to bend the U channel round the former. The book probably
explains it better!
That sounds the best way, now wondering which one to do? - fibreglass or alloy channel....
[Edited on 5/8/12 by Westy1994]
|
|
|
PeteS2k
|
| posted on 5/8/12 at 05:52 PM |
|
|
Dax Rush uses the system of which you speak.
I can try to take some pics... or you can pop round if you want a closer look
|
|
|
Westy1994
|
| posted on 5/8/12 at 05:57 PM |
|
|
Wow, one on my door step cool.
Thanks I will PM you .
|
|
|
Slimy38
|
| posted on 5/8/12 at 07:12 PM |
|
|
Will fibreglass be able to cope with the tension you will apply to it? It will be easier to form, but I'd question it's lifespan
considering how narrow the part will be? At the very least you'd have to make it a fair bit thicker than the equivalent metal?
|
|
|
Westy1994
|
| posted on 5/8/12 at 07:24 PM |
|
|
I don't see why not, metal/alloy would certainly be neater, but then its not seen so that kind of negates the 'looks' side of it.
If you can imagine what it will look like the strain will be towards the alloy screen frame, it will be the way it is attached to the soft top that
will be of concern, as it could just 'pull off' the channel leaving the channel behind and a loose top. I lost a soft top once on my
Triumph at 60mph, so this needs careful thought, as that was not a nice experience. I have both woven and CSM vairiants of F'glass and carbon,
so I can maybe try both to see which is the stronger anyway.
Going to catch up with Pete this week at some point, so I will have a far better idea once I see his car.
|
|
|
AllWeatherDan
|
| posted on 15/8/12 at 01:21 PM |
|
|
Please keep us all updated on how this goes!
I like to use mine in the winter but I do get wet...
Dan
There is no such thing as a stupid question.
Just the ones I ask!
|
|
|
Westy1994
|
| posted on 15/8/12 at 01:58 PM |
|
|
Will do, now I have seen for myself that this method works, having visited Pete last week. I now need to decide on if it is worth modifying the hood I
have already, or simply make another one, possibly a half hood would be more useful for what I need.
I found some suitable over centre clips as well, as a lot of them have the mounting holes spread too far apart to be mounted to the relatively thin
section of a screen support.
Pic below is how I hope mine will look after some work.
[url=
|
|
|
Westy1994
|
| posted on 20/8/12 at 08:26 PM |
|
|
Well today I started on this project, got the channel made and formed to fit the curve of the screen frame, then added an additional alloy bar for
extra strength, also had a play with some offcuts of material to see what it might look like fitted to the channel . Still need to order those clips,
but all going well so far..... Undecided at the moment as to use a vinyl based material or use canvas, whats everyone using?, and where do we find
that clear plastic window stuff as well?.
Channel in situ
Alloy bar
Test fitting of material.
|
|
|
Daddylonglegs
|
| posted on 20/8/12 at 09:04 PM |
|
|
Looking good chap
I'm after doing something similar myself in the near future so will watch with intrest. But I'm still not sure how the channel works, do
you have any descriptions/pictures to explain it? I looked at the link on here but it doesn't really show much.
JB
It looks like the Midget is winning at the moment......
|
|
|
Westy1994
|
| posted on 20/8/12 at 10:02 PM |
|
|
All it is, is just A U section channel, no more or less than that, I will take some pics of the actual thing removed from the car tomorrow,
can't really disturb it now till the 'potions' have cured. The channel sits on the frame section and grips the surface , then
eventually two either overcentre or some other fasteners to lock it to the frame. I intend to fit the material as per what Dax do, which wraps around
the channel internally, this I think is far better for stopping water ingress over other methods.
|
|
|
Ivan
|
| posted on 21/8/12 at 03:23 AM |
|
|
My Cobra has a similar set-up. Glass Fibre channel covered with the roofing material with two over centre clips on the canopy and hooks high up on the
frame - it also needs a turn buckle in the centre going down to the dashboard or at anything over a 100 kph it lifts in the centre. The glass fibre
channel is so stiff that you would never expect it to bend but it does at highish speed.
|
|
|
Westy1994
|
| posted on 18/10/12 at 03:34 PM |
|
|
I thought perhaps I should finish this thread off by enclosing the results of the method I choose. It took a while to get right but having now driven
the car I have to say I am very pleased with the results. Even had a 20 mile blast on the M6 last night at legal speeds ( honest gov) and it never
moved a millimetre. I choose some cheapish fabric for the half roof as I wanted a fairly small package once it was rolled up for storeage, I opted to
affix some brass poppers on the roll over bar which I felt was a better and neater solution than the straps I see on most others. Some Velcro at the
door tops and lower edge of fabric holds the sides in well with no flapping at all, even at 70mph. I now also have the option of making a
'rear' part for it to fully enclose the car, but from the results so far, this might not happen. I also choose to fasten the over centre
clips the other way around to what Dax do, this saves having to buy the whole assy again if I ever make a hardtop or full one piece softop - far
cheaper to made two small hooks than buy the whole clip again...
The top when not in use gets fastened under the small straps, as seen on the boot lid.
Thanks for all the ideas and suggestions, and to Pete who let me photo his car the other month for yet more ideas ( I will bob over sometime and
return that paperwork BTW)
ETA
All was done without a sewing machine BTW, I really could not justify buying one for the single time it would have been used. The material is stuck
together with very high impact adhesive (NOT the spray on type), which I had to let cure for almost a week before it could be disturbed, I was unsure
about its strength , but as I say some high speed runs have not shifted it at all.
[Edited on 18/10/12 by Westy1994]
|
|
|
