Hi guys !
I am a new recruit to site. I am having car built at Maltby at the moment with Phil/Barry/Danny. Its a 2 litre full race all steel duratec rebuilt at Stanwood by Jonathon with quaife dogbox and diff by Phil Jones. Its to run on 13in slicks for hillclimbing and sprints in Ireland. The car is better than the driver as I am returned to motorsport after leaving it in 1971
40 years ago ( age 64) .Restarted last year in 1.6 8 valve peugeot engined Starlet . Its good to be back in depressing times . I have to say that the guys at Maltby have been most supportive altering and changing at my whim.
By the way Danny I understand has become a dad , congratulations to him , he need a break from attack on forum
rollcages and customer service. Building cars and running a business is not for the faint hearted and it would defeat the whole kit car concept if a whole layer of admin added 25% to cost. My car is on factory floor being finished and any comments appreciated

sounds like a great motor.
welcome to the site.

Welcome to the madhouse
Your car sounds like it's the dog's b*lls
Jacko

Again, It sounds like the dogs nutsack When will it be done???

Good set of lads down there, Johnathan at Stanwood knows his stuff and races himself wit a 1.8 zetec in the 750 motorclub. Brother in law and nephew both jave engines built by jonathan and both zetecs one running 200bhp the other hopefully will be hitting 300 to 350 with its new turbo and a bit of magic by Dave walker.

Ps danny is having a run out at oulton park this weekend so a good chance to see him push his indy r

thats going to be a quick car, i know (Jonny Wes) personnally and he builds some really sweet and quick motors. Its good to here your positive experiences, its easy to moan when things are bad but so often we don't thank people when things go well.

Good luck for the coming season, and welcome to the forum.

PS congrats to Danny and Family

With that engine can you put your location in (so we can avoid you at sprints )

Don't worry the only one has to worry is me !!!!
With two new Mks in the rep of Ireland just hope the busa can keep up with him . It will be the old battle if BEC V a serious duratec car best of luck Alex
Looking forward to getting both on track or on the hills

wow, that sounds like a good spec, as said any ideas when will it be done?

stuart

Just been to Mk and your car looks awesome. Some too quality parts going on it.
Doesn't look to far from being finished, when do you take delivery?

Hi,
Sounds like an awesome car.

I too am a newbie on here and also have an Indy R being built by the guys at MK;

MK Indy-r half roll cage
Willwood  four pot front brakes
Cosworth rear brakes
Pipercross air filter
Digital gear indicator
Hayabusa 08 engine and digital clocks
White gel coat
Team dynamics in black wheels with toyo tyres.
Paddle change
Carbon front wings
Carbon interior
Savage switches on dash board
Electric reverse.
Flat shifter
LED rear lights
Limited slip diff

Spoke to Danny last week for an update as now 1 month into advised build time. He advised they should have a full rolling chassis for me to view when I go up in a couple of weeks.

Car should be ready end of March, can't wait.

Any MK owners on here from East Sussex?

Thanks guys for your interest. I went to factory last week and was very pleased and car due to be ready soon as engine is mapped and car rolling road set up.
Anyone in Ireland looking for a chassis and suspension as I have same in the garage for sale.
NOC s new car superb and he is a much better driver than me !.
My car can be seen at the MK works if anyone is interested.
AJW

Will be popping down to MK on Saturday to take some pictures for the lads if you dont mind will also take some of your car and post them on here

I will hopefully be calling to mk on saturday after work to collect my new bodywork

Hi and welcome to the forum.your car sounds superb,i look forward
to seeing some pictures.

Oh and congrats to Danny and family,the lads at MK are a good bunch.

Andy

Appreciate seeing new pictures.
Will post pictures of other cars in garage
Escort MK1 ( 2 l Zetec engine rebuiby Stanwood after blow up at Mondello track )
Escort Mexico Rallycar ( 1.6 steel pushrod , car in rebuild )
Locost zetec 2 l lt by my son while he was in uni
Toyota starlet 1.6 peugeot 8 valve rallycar ( built by Jimmy and Alex my son)
VW van for restoration and version to tow and carry spares for Indy ( sons boss gave him a present of it

So as you can see we are kept busy !

Any suggestions for graphics on Indy ? car is kawasaki green body and black wings

Just been to mk to collect my bodywork had a look at you're car and danny's race car and you're duratec is looking nice with the dry sump arrangement

Popped in to MK today and had a look round looks like I missed you Dale

some pics

Description

This is the chasis that can be seen on MK's website taking a bit of a roll, gotta be honest the picture only captures about 10% of the roll. Having seen the accident myself I am amazed at the strength of the structure




some pics of the Duratec your all talking about


Description



Description



Description



Description

Hi Austin man,

Did you see another car in there with a B king engine and a half roll cage?

I'm going upto MK on the 5th March hoping to see it.

Cheers

They had a few in a yellow Zetec with webbers getting the tracking and camber set up. Think its getting collected this week, the duratec one , I think there was also a white one with black checks on it not sure if it was a Busa engined one, a chasis being built

[Edited on 26/2/11 by austin man]

Cheers, I guess mine could be the chassis being built, as Danny said they should have the rolling chassis ready by next weekend when I visit.

Hope to get another ride out with Danny, as the last time it was near freezing.

Thanks Austin man for photos.
Ajw

Just received message from Motorsport Ireland re changes in roll cages by MSA.See new regs K1.3.1 and K1.3.5. as a result of a natonal court judgement.
Any comments

quote:

---

Originally posted by ajw
Just received message from Motorsport Ireland re changes in roll cages by MSA.See new regs K1.3.1 and K1.3.5. as a result of a natonal court judgement.
Any comments

---

Here ya go

To all Motorsport Ireland competition licence holders:

Please see below a press release from the MSA relating to an immediate rule change for safety roll over bars.

Please be aware this may apply to your car if you intend to compete in Northern Ireland or Britain.



Motor Sports Council approves immediate rule change for Safety Roll-Over Structures

At the latest meeting of the Motor Sports Council, which took place at the Royal Automobile Club on Tuesday 8th March, it was unanimously agreed to implement immediate changes to Regulations K1.3.1 and K1.3.5, which cover the Technical Specifications of Rollcages.

Following a National Court judgement last September, the Technical Advisory Panel was asked to review the regulation.

The Technical Advisory Panel confirmed to the Motor Sports Council that as front hoop failure was a possible risk where multiple bends appear in ROPS members, an additional Windscreen Pillar Reinforcement must now be fitted in these circumstances.

This change takes immediate effect and competitors are advised to ensure that all vehicles are fully compliant with the new regulations before any future event. Should further advice be required, competitors are encouraged to speak to the MSA Technical Department or an MSA-registered Scrutineer.

The revised regulations are as follows:

K1.3.1. Main, Front and Lateral Rollbars.
These frames or hoops must be made in one piece without joints. Their construction must be smooth and even, without ripples or cracks. The vertical part of the main rollbar must be as straight as possible and as close as possible to the interior contour of the bodyshell. The front leg of the front rollbar or a lateral rollbar must be straight, or if it is not possible, must follow the windscreen pillars and have only one bend with its lower vertical part unless a windscreen pillar reinforcement [K1.3.5(e)] is fitted.

The mounting foot must not be rearward of the foremost point of the rollbar.

Where the main rollbar forms the rear legs of a lateral rollbar (see drawing K6), the connection to the lateral rollbar must be at roof level. To achieve an efficient mounting to the bodyshell, the original interior trim may be modified around the safety cage and its mountings by cutting it away or by distortion. However, this modification does not permit the removal of the complete parts of upholstery or trim. Where necessary, the fusebox may be relocated to enable a rollcage to be fitted.

K1.3.5. Optional Reinforcement of Rollcage.

(e) Windscreen Pillar Reinforcement

A tube the upper end of which must be less than 100mm from the junction between the front (lateral) rollbar and the longitudinal (transversal) member and the lower end less than 100mm from the front mounting foot of the front (lateral) rollbar, as shown in drawing K62.

The tube may be bent on condition that it is straight in side view and that the angle of the bend does not exceed 20°.

Drawing No. 62 attached.


Best regards,

Motorsport Ireland

Basically it looks like Mk has sold us lemons......

is this part not a bit contentious

K1.3.1. Main, Front and Lateral Rollbars.
These frames or hoops must be made in one piece without joints. Their construction must be smooth and even, without ripples or cracks. The vertical part of the main rollbar must be as straight as possible and as close as possible to the interior contour of the bodyshell. The front leg of the front rollbar or a lateral rollbar must be straight


This does imply that a bend is permissable, The mK one is welded to the chasis at the bend so in theory it is attached at a straight part of the rollcage

[Edited on 16/3/11 by austin man]

A bend is permissable but not a double bend that the MK has ...also the front hoop should be one piece ...which the MK is not also the front hoop leg is rearward of the forward most part of the cage also not allowed....

before this email I was aware of the issue with the roll cage from this very forum, ( after i purchased a full race spec car from mk who knew my intentions were to race and hillclimb the car,)
Now i tought that this issue would not affect me in Ireland due to the scrutineers maybe not being aware ....well mot anymore ...as this email has been sent to every member holding a competition lience highlighting the problem...
What chance do i have producing the mk to get logbook now....NONE...
So i now have 2 options ...
1. remake the front section of the roll cage at my own cost thus distroying my nice powdercoating,
2. just get rid of the car at depriciated value ...as when i bought the car it was a race car now its just a track day car

From experience ringing MK about the problem would be a waste of time and the cost of a phone call..
So AJW and myself have bought 2 new MK race cars that are just NOT race cars and paid serious money for the privaledge
what a rip off....

It will be quite interesting to see how this will affect Dannys race car.... my guess they will now have to do something about it .. thus proving that what they have been saying all along that there cage is up to spec is lie.....
MK can build a good road car or track day car but have no idea how to build a race car .....

Can anyone confirm if front section cage frame is optional or mandatory under MSA rules or is a rear hoop with supports and diagonal strut as on sports cars the requirment. Is the rule change focused on rally cars ?
AJW

Looks like procomp was right after all.

AJW,
The legal term here is 'unfit for purpose'. You might add, 'unfit for specified purpose'.

MK must make good, in law, or refund and take the vehicle back.

MK's only get out may be the change in rules date, but that cage of theirs has been on the dodgy side of legal for some time.

Nev.

today i have been to mallory park testing with one of our race cars.


i got the eligibilty scrutineer for the 750 motor club to have a look at the car.

he told me the the front role bar does NOT come into these regs as a car of this size with this engine only needs a rear rollbar.
as long as that is ok and to the MSA drawings,then the front part is just and additional part.

so i my eyes all is ok.

Have you got your Msa logbook for your new race car yet Danny ? ... Because getting a guy to have a look is one thing getting a guy to put his name on a log book is a totally different thing .. As no scrutineer is going to put there names to something that remotely dodgy

Based on the scrutineers discussion today the front section is an optional and does'nt have to comply. Danny is out next weekend so his car will be under the eye of the scrutineer, If the roll cages for this type of car do require a front section to adhere the rules I think we need to consider how Formula Four, Formula V and the 750 engined cars can pass scrutineering as they only have 1 rear hoop. weight wise and size I would not say there is a significant difference.

Food for thought

quote:

---

Originally posted by Neville Jones
AJW,
The legal term here is 'unfit for purpose'. You might add, 'unfit for specified purpose'.

MK must make good, in law, or refund and take the vehicle back.

MK's only get out may be the change in rules date, but that cage of theirs has been on the dodgy side of legal for some time.

Nev.

---

It would seem that the regs for sports cars relate to drawing K60 which is roll hoop with support bars with a clearance requirment overhead and to the side. I will contact Danny to see if if he got new car MSA logged as this will settle all the issues . Look section K msa regs. My son Alex built roll cages for rally car and followed FIA spec and had it logged as we followed WRC spec .This is all about interpretation and I am happy that MK cage is fit for its purpose as the weakest area in all kit cars will be chassis in a crash situation. Maybe somebody might develope a carbon fibre tub and sell to all the manufacturers of 7 type cars !
AJW

750mc require full cages for these cars, if over 2L raced in kits. The rules are a little ambiguous, because, as I read them, if under 2l then a rear roll hoop with backstays and diagonal, is acceptable.

However, if a full cage is fitted, it must meet the required standards. The fact that some scrutineers will look aside at something that doesn't meet the regs, just so the driver can go racing, doesn't say that the cage is correct.

The scrutineers should be telling Danny Keenan and anyone else with one of these mickey mouse bent tube cages, to either fix them, or remove the sections of cage forward of the rear hoop, if they are running engines less than 2L. A bit silly, but that's how the regs read, at least to me.

And why make that complicated lower bit anyway, when a straight tube is easier, and quicker to make and is stronger?

Cheers,
Nev.

[Edited on 18/3/11 by Neville Jones]

Now I am totally confused....
Does anyone really know what the regs are????
If a full rollcage is fitted does it have to comply with the above letter from the msa...????
so now engine size come into it??

750 MC not my worry, it will be Robert C. my local scrutineer who will log car and if he is happy then I have no problem as I consider cage is better than some cages that only attach to upper chasssis rail. I have a chassis with a cage on the shelf for sale maybe I should drop a block of concrete from the teleporter to see if it survives ! bit extreme maybe !

I have decided to bring the car to Ireland and if the cage fails we will rebuild it. As I understand it you can buy a kit of certified tubes from a supplier and weld them in your self ( and most home welds leave a lot to be desired) so I still feel the cage fitted at MK is probably the strongest for the job ( maybe I could add gussets to strengthen the bends on front roll cage)

quote:

---

Originally posted by Neville Jones
750mc require full cages for these cars, if over 2L raced in kits. The rules are a little ambiguous, because, as I read them, if under 2l then a rear roll hoop with backstays and diagonal, is acceptable.

However, if a full cage is fitted, it must meet the required standards. The fact that some scrutineers will look aside at something that doesn't meet the regs, just so the driver can go racing, doesn't say that the cage is correct.

The scrutineers should be telling Danny Keenan and anyone else with one of these mickey mouse bent tube cages, to either fix them, or remove the sections of cage forward of the rear hoop, if they are running engines less than 2L. A bit silly, but that's how the regs read, at least to me.

And why make that complicated lower bit anyway, when a straight tube is easier, and quicker to make and is stronger?

Cheers,
Nev.

[Edited on 18/3/11 by Neville Jones]

---

hi alex

i have booked your car in to get an msa log book for you just to stop all the negative comments.

cheers danny

Many thanks Danny , this will prove the facts on eligability of the car for competition. As we say in Ireland " F**k the begrugers " as you may have had people with commercial interests stirring the pot ! .
I will be returning car to Irl as soon as Jonathon maps engine.

Many thanks for putting issue to bed with good customer service. Looking forward to driving the car.

AJW

quote:

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Originally posted by austin man

Oh do I note a little bit of back pedalling yesterday you where stating law, now you are stating ambiguity its one or the other, it would appear to me that being as the cars are not over 2litre then all is okay.

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As a final comment,

Is it just far too easy for MK to take out the bends in question, and have a cage that causes no questions, and is far safer?

Cheers,
Nev.

quote:

---

Originally posted by ajw
750 MC not my worry, it will be Robert C. my local scrutineer who will log car and if he is happy then I have no problem as I consider cage is better than some cages that only attach to upper chasssis rail. I have a chassis with a cage on the shelf for sale maybe I should drop a block of concrete from the teleporter to see if it survives ! bit extreme maybe !

I have decided to bring the car to Ireland and if the cage fails we will rebuild it. As I understand it you can buy a kit of certified tubes from a supplier and weld them in your self ( and most home welds leave a lot to be desired) so I still feel the cage fitted at MK is probably the strongest for the job ( maybe I could add gussets to strengthen the bends on front roll cage)

---

ATTN NOSEY,

You dont have to worry about me . Have a look at NOC MK with 1350 hyabusa and he will be able to peddle it. He is in your neck of the woods as am I ( within 20 miles)

Heading with danny to cadwell park on 12th to see how car performs. Its being mapped this week but may have to remake exhaust manifold .

Why do you have to remake the manifold

waiting result of mapping but engine builder raised question on manifold ,we will see the results and then make a decision. The present one is by raceline.