Doesn't look like a Dutton to me either... Could it be a heavily modded Dutton chassis with 7esque bodywork?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290496419360&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fshop.ebay.co.uk%3A80%2F%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dp5197.m570 .l1313%26_nkw%3D290496419360%26_sacat%3DSee-All-Categories%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1
LOCOST 7 NOT CATTERHAM WESTFIELD KIT CAR R1 ENGINE on eBay (end time 14-Nov-10 20:25:41 GMT)
Doesn't look like a Dutton to me either... Could it be a heavily modded Dutton chassis with 7esque bodywork?
Is there a prize for finding crap stuff on ebay?
quote:
Originally posted by twybrow
LOCOST 7 NOT CATTERHAM WESTFIELD KIT CAR R1 ENGINE on eBay (end time 14-Nov-10 20:25:41 GMT)
Doesn't look like a Dutton to me either... Could it be a heavily modded Dutton chassis with 7esque bodywork?
soooooooooooo wot doz it realy matter as long as you dont buy it.so wots the prob?????????????
quote:
Originally posted by joni
soooooooooooo wot doz it realy matter as long as you dont buy it.so wots the prob?????????????
quote:
Originally posted by interestedparty
quote:
Originally posted by joni
soooooooooooo wot doz it realy matter as long as you dont buy it.so wots the prob?????????????
If you have to ask, there is no way to explain it to you.
Come to think of it, why bother debating most things. I have my opinion and I'll stick to it........you have yours and you're welcome to
it......
Ringing cars has been going on for many years. Just like theft, ID theft, shoplifting, muggings, murders etc. as long as no-one gets hurt,
where's the problem..?
quote:
Originally posted by joni
soooooooooooo wot doz it realy matter as long as you dont buy it.so wots the prob?????????????
quote:
Originally posted by daviep
quote:
Originally posted by joni
soooooooooooo wot doz it realy matter as long as you dont buy it.so wots the prob?????????????
I agree completely, bet there's few people on here who have done some "post SVA" mods? Is it any different??
& after all whats the point in having a forum if you're going to start discussions on it!!!
There's no way of knowing from that Ad if this is a ringer so to suggest it is is unfair to the vendor. It could well be genuine...
quote:
Originally posted by interestedparty
quote:
Originally posted by daviep
quote:
Originally posted by joni
soooooooooooo wot doz it realy matter as long as you dont buy it.so wots the prob?????????????
I agree completely, bet there's few people on here who have done some "post SVA" mods? Is it any different??
It is different.
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
There's no way of knowing from that Ad if this is a ringer so to suggest it is is unfair to the vendor. It could well be genuine...
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
quote:
Originally posted by interestedparty
quote:
Originally posted by daviep
quote:
Originally posted by joni
soooooooooooo wot doz it realy matter as long as you dont buy it.so wots the prob?????????????
I agree completely, bet there's few people on here who have done some "post SVA" mods? Is it any different??
It is different.
But who decides how great the difference is... you?
So it's a ringer...
Do you have irrefutable proof?
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
So it's a ringer...
Do you have irrefutable proof?
So when are you going to report the seller to the Police / DVLA?
is there really any discusssion to be had? if its a ringer, its the same discussion as is had about twice a week on here when these posts get made. they don't solve anything. it won't be a different outcome to the last dutton on ebay.
I can't be arsed researching what the outcome was of the previous discussions Blake... can you give me an executive summary!?
er, yeah, ok, see above...
Gotcha... ta!
These sort of posts do no harm, and if you were a newb thinking of buying then it's possible you would come on this forum as well trawl eBay.
So I think it's helpful.
Like most forums, if there is a thread that you dislike, don't read it. Or post in it. Or read it, post in it, reply.
ah, so we must be due another thread about GTS then?
So, its registered as a Dutton, so what ?
if every now and a again, a car appears on ebay, that in some eyes is registered wrongly, whats the problem
to me it means, there a thousands out there that happy owners are driving a few miles a year, and are as happy as pigs in poo
I for one am not interested, if someone buys it, with out doing there homework, whos problem is it ??
Steve
quote:
Originally posted by steve m
in poo
I for one am not interested, if someone buys it, with out doing there homework, whos problem is it ??
^ ok, but what REALLY will posting ever car on ebay thats registered as a dutton do to stop the seller selling it?
quote:
Worst still, has the car been built properly, has anybody who knows about this stuff ever had a good look at it? Is the wiring safe (GRP burns if it's set alight). Is all the fuel hose properly secure, is any of it disolving because
Well, we talk about a kit car , not a Toyota
Gerardo
[Edited on 5/11/10 by belgian2b]
interestedparty - 5/11/10 at 08:07 PMquote:
Originally posted by blakep82
^ ok, but what REALLY will posting ever car on ebay thats registered as a dutton do to stop the seller selling it?
Nothing, nor will reporting it to ebay, and the DVLA doesn't have a system for receiving information about cases like this, and the police witll say it's a matter for the DVLA.
This type of thread is a bit like trheads which complain about the government's doings. Nothing will stop whatever is being complained about, but it is still a legitimate complaint, and if one person reads it and passes on the info to someone else, and stops them from making a big mistake, then it's worth it. IMO.
scootz - 5/11/10 at 08:10 PMThe DVLA is obliged to act if informed...
I couldn't tell a Dutton from a Robin-Hood and have no proof that it is a ringer, so I can't report it. Will you!?
interestedparty - 5/11/10 at 08:14 PMquote:
Originally posted by scootz
The DVLA is obliged to act if informed...
I couldn't tell a Dutton from a Robin-Hood and have no proof that it is a ringer, so I can't report it. Will you!?
It won't make any difference, I've tried it in the past. The seller justs responds that he has proof that it is what he says it is -ie registration, chassis and engine numbers match the document, and the sale proceeds.
scootz - 5/11/10 at 08:19 PMI'm guessing your last post relates to eBay... ???
I was more wondering if you would send DVLA an email reporting it?
I'd be interested to hear how you got on and what the outcome was...
[Edited on 5/11/10 by scootz]
Confused but excited. - 5/11/10 at 08:20 PM"It also needs a pedal box as the one fitted was useless as is the steering coloum as these are old Ford ones and not good."
Now he tells us!
Mark Allanson - 5/11/10 at 08:21 PMSVA/IVA is a good thing, stops crap cars getting on the road. This car may be really good, but if it was it would pass IVA and be legal, so we can suspect that it isn't.
One high publicity death due to a bad, incorrectly registered car will bring down the whole house of cards, ruining the kitcar scene for everyone.
This should be reported and subsequently crushed.
interestedparty - 5/11/10 at 08:24 PMquote:
Originally posted by scootz
I'm guessing your last post relates to eBay... ???
I was more wondering if you would send DVLA an email reporting it?
I'd be interested to hear how you gone on and what the outcome was...
DVLA doesn't have a system for reporting this stuff, I've tried it in the past. Have a go yourself if you don't believe me, no need to actually send it off, just see if you can find a suitable page and web form. If you do, then link it here and I will report it, but it will mean that either I was looking in the wrong place before, or they have changed it.
I did try using the nearest form available, but the result was the same as the ebay one.
quote:
Originally posted by Mark Allanson
SVA/IVA is a good thing, stops crap cars getting on the road. This car may be really good, but if it was it would pass IVA and be legal, so we can suspect that it isn't.
One high publicity death due to a bad, incorrectly registered car will bring down the whole house of cards, ruining the kitcar scene for everyone.
This should be reported and subsequently crushed.
Damn right!
[Edited on 5/11/10 by interestedparty]
Paul TigerB6 - 5/11/10 at 08:26 PMquote:
Originally posted by blakep82
^ ok, but what REALLY will posting ever car on ebay thats registered as a dutton do to stop the seller selling it?
No it wont - but at least any fellow member on here will be wary of buying that particular (illegally registered) car. As stated, Dutton didnt make a se7en shaped chassis and any modifications to change what may have originally been a Dutton chassis to make it into a se7en shape renders the original registration invalid.
Simple fact - whether it started out as a Dutton or not - that car is now illegally registered unless someone put it though SVA after the "modifications" or it was done pre SVA.
There's a simple reason why all these ringers end up on Ebay!!!
[Edited on 5/11/10 by Paul TigerB6]
scootz - 5/11/10 at 08:31 PM
interestedparty - 5/11/10 at 08:35 PMquote:
Originally posted by scootz
CONTACT DVLA LINKY
Waste of time. Tried it before.
The thing is, the DVLA doesn't regard this type of problem as anything they need worry about, and don't have a system to deal with it. Nor does VOSA.
Even a VIC wouldn't pick up a ringer like this, the guys who do them are not as skilled as the people here, yet only a few of us are able to state categorically that it isn't now, and never has beeen, a Dutton
[Edited on 5/11/10 by interestedparty]
scootz - 5/11/10 at 08:39 PMquote:
Originally posted by Paul TigerB6
Simple fact - whether it started out as a Dutton or not - that car is now illegally registered unless someone put it though SVA after the "modifications" or it was done pre SVA.
There's a simple reason why all these ringers end up on Ebay!!!
You used the word UNLESS in your statement Paul... this indicates that you accept there may be an explanation.
To avoid confusion... I agree that ringing cars is wrong on a whole number of levels, but there just might be an explanation for this particular car not looking like a Dutton, but being registered as one. I just don't think it's fair to be judge, jury and executioner without knowing ALL of the facts surrounding a particular car.
handyandy - 5/11/10 at 08:41 PMI,m quite surprised by the "debate" that this thread has created, it appears that members are, in a way arguing about whether it is or isn,t a ringer,
I,m fairly new to "The kit car world" & know the difference between a Dutton & a 7 style car & know that Dutton didn,t make a car that looks like the one being discussed.
IF, thats not a ringer then its very close to it IMO,
cheers
andy
Paul TigerB6 - 5/11/10 at 08:44 PMquote:
Originally posted by scootz
quote:
Originally posted by Paul TigerB6
Simple fact - whether it started out as a Dutton or not - that car is now illegally registered unless someone put it though SVA after the "modifications" or it was done pre SVA.
There's a simple reason why all these ringers end up on Ebay!!!
You used the word UNLESS in your statement Paul... this indicates that you accept there may be an explanation.
Killing your wife is illegal too UNLESS you're an Iranian (in Iran) and find your wife with another man whilst having 4 witnesses. There we go - an explanation as to how murder is legal.
99.9% chance then that the car is a ringer
Mr G - 5/11/10 at 08:46 PMhttp://www.boards2go.com/boards/board.cgi?action=read&id=1272349312&user=dutton&page=9
handyandy - 5/11/10 at 09:11 PMquote:
Originally posted by Mr G
http://www.boards2go.com/boards/board.cgi?action=read&id=1272349312&user=dutton&page=9
interesting linky,
says it all really .
cheers
andy
scootz - 5/11/10 at 09:12 PMCertainly opened my eyes... sad state of affairs!
interestedparty - 5/11/10 at 09:19 PMI could understand having an argument about the identity of a car if one side was saying "it isn't X because of A, B and C" and the other side was saing "it is X because of D, E and F"
But this argument is one where one side is saying "it isn't X because of A, B and C" and the other side are saying "maybe it is X, and it isn't fair to say it might not be".
So I think the time has come for people to put forward reasons as to how it could possibly be a Dutton, rather than to just say that it might be. BTW, saying it used to be a Dutton won't work, because if the chassis had been altered that much then it would have needed SVA/IVA, and the owner would not have been allowed to register it under the original name.
The car we are talking about is NOT a Dutton, it IS a ringer. It has had a false identity applied to it in order to avoid the SVA/IVA test, and for no other reason.
scootz - 5/11/10 at 09:46 PMI have to put my hands up to having thought that if a cars components had been changed over the years and each change was declared in the appropriate manner then the car would still retain its original identity.
Every day's a school day I suppose!
Mr G - 5/11/10 at 09:58 PMquote:
Originally posted by interestedparty
It's not a Dutton. If you know Dutons you can indeed see that from looking at the ad. Have a look at some Duttons and see if you can see any with a bend in the body side.
quote:
Originally posted by Paul TigerB6
As stated, Dutton didnt make a se7en shaped chassis
Your forgetting that duttons were the original lotus ssc replica manufacturers before westfield et all
THIS thread made me laugh
Here's a dutton B type chassis with bottom chassis rail going inwards.
Yes the ebay one is a ringer.
[Edited on 5/11/10 by Mr G]
scootz - 5/11/10 at 10:03 PMquote:
Originally posted by Mr G
THIS thread made me laugh
Why? Was it a Dutton!?
Mr G - 5/11/10 at 10:09 PMquote:
Originally posted by scootz
quote:
Originally posted by Mr G
THIS thread made me laugh
Why? Was it a Dutton!?
The fact that people didn't like the looks of the lotus S4 and highlighted the chassis's downfalls means Mr Dutton created a spot on replica
scootz - 5/11/10 at 10:14 PM
Wasn't the best looking thing Lotus ever put out!
rf900rush - 6/11/10 at 10:18 AMIf it's a bargain coul'nt one buy it, then put it through IVA and make it all legal.
Then just throw away the log book.
kj - 6/11/10 at 12:08 PMHow many duttons on the dutton owners club have had locost front suspension set up and members mentioning buying suspension off this site to convert their cars and also changing the rear end to 5 link set up.
Should all them have to apply for IVA due to the redical modifications rather than spend hours looking for cars like this on e-bay to claim back the id to stick on an old dutton with the front and rear chassis to mimick a 7 replica with a dutton body on it?
[Edited on 6/11/10 by kj]
bmseven - 6/11/10 at 02:45 PMDo these cases really need discussing on here, are you seriously saying that every car that has passed SVA is better/safer than one that has not?
As in all cases when buying anything Caveat Emptor
Caveat Emptor
The enquiry is complete
The vehicle details for Q82 CPE are:
Date of Liability 01 11 2008
Date of First Registration 01 10 1983
Year of Manufacture 1983
Cylinder Capacity (cc) 998CC
CO2 Emissions Not Available
Fuel Type Petrol
Export Marker Not Applicable
Vehicle Status Unlicensed
Vehicle Colour YELLOW
Vehicle Type Approval
This vehicle can be licensed at a DVLA Local Office without the V5C Registration Certificate
Vehicle Excise Duty Rate for vehicle
6 Months Rate £68.75
12 Months Rate £125.00
interestedparty - 6/11/10 at 04:08 PMquote:
Originally posted by bmseven
Do these cases really need discussing on here,
Yes
quote:
Originally posted by bmseven
are you seriously saying that every car that has passed SVA is better/safer than one that has not?
I'll answer that as soon as you tell me why the builder of this car realised that it wouldn't pass, and instead bought a Dutton registration. Depending on when it was built, it was probably only looking at a £150 test. Why was he frightened to take it? Maybe he did take it, and it failed so badly that he bought a Dutton instead, then swiitched the plates?
bmseven - 6/11/10 at 05:01 PMquote:
Originally posted by interestedparty
quote:
Originally posted by bmseven
Do these cases really need discussing on here,
Yes
Why to make yourselves feel better?
quote:
are you seriously saying that every car that has passed SVA is better/safer than one that has not?
I'll answer that as soon as you tell me why the builder of this car realised that it wouldn't pass, and instead bought a Dutton registration. Depending on when it was built, it was probably only looking at a £150 test. Why was he frightened to take it? Maybe he did take it, and it failed so badly that he bought a Dutton instead, then swiitched the plates?
What £150 test?
quote:
Originally posted by bmseven
quote:
Originally posted by interestedparty
quote:
Originally posted by bmseven
Do these cases really need discussing on here,
Yes
Why to make yourselves feel better?
quote:
No. Put forward some more sensible reasons as to why we are discussing it, and I will tell you which, if any, is the reason. Having said that, don't se any particular need to answer "why are you discussing this subject" type questions. If the subject doesn't interest you, why are you talking about it?
quote:
Originally posted by bmseven
are you seriously saying that every car that has passed SVA is better/safer than one that has not?
I'll answer that as soon as you tell me why the builder of this car realised that it wouldn't pass, and instead bought a Dutton registration. Depending on when it was built, it was probably only looking at a £150 test. Why was he frightened to take it? Maybe he did take it, and it failed so badly that he bought a Dutton instead, then swiitched the plates?
That was not my question, I said EVERYCAR but either way pure speculation on your behalf
quote:
Originally posted by kj
What £150 test?
Why would somebody go down the "ringing" road???
How about this:
I spent several years building a BEC with no reverse, didn't think I would finish it before IVA came in. If I didn't get through SVA I would
have faced major redesign and major money needed. If that happened I would have tested for IVA failed, corrected any issues, retested, failed again
for no reverse. I would then have bought a log book happy that my car was safe.
As it happened I threw it together in time for SVA and passed first time
Must be great being perfect, when are we going to start seeing "bet this didn't pass SVA/IVA like this" ???
Probably never, touch hypocritical I think.
Davie
quote:
Originally posted by daviep
hypocritical
quote:
Originally posted by interestedparty
quote:
Originally posted by daviep
hypocritical
Personally I try to stick to the main points of an argument, prefer to avoid slagging off the other side, tends to weaken my argument if I do that. Still, I suppose we all have our own opinions as to what is good argument technique.
quote:
Originally posted by daviep
Not entirely sure who you think I'm slagging?
quote:
Originally posted by interestedparty
quote:
Originally posted by daviep
Not entirely sure who you think I'm slagging?
I'm not entirely sure either, you really didn't make yourself very clear when you suggested that the 'other side' of the argument were being hypocritical.
As for the rest of it, I don't think we are going to be able to change your views on this subject, and you certainly aren't going to be able to change mine, so I for one am going to drop out now, as I really haven't anything to add to what was said earlier.
quote:
Originally posted by daviep
Good stuff, we can save any of the other questions asked that were convieniently ignored for a later date.
quote:
Originally posted by interestedparty
quote:
Originally posted by daviep
Good stuff, we can save any of the other questions asked that were convieniently ignored for a later date.
I was hoping that you would drop this fruitless argument too, but as you are not, perhaps I should make an attempt to answer these "convieniently ignored" questions that you feel are relevant (and which I do not). Perhaps to make it easier you would be so good as to lay them out on a 1, 2, 3 basis, and then I, or anyone else who feels inclined, will have a go at answering them.
I think I'll build another Locost and register it as a Dutton so I can sell it on ebay and read about it on here
Would you?
I don't think we have any right (or requirement) at all to 'lean' on someone to do the right thing. Once the vehicle is sold its not
their responsibility.
They have advertised it correctly and truthfully.
Law as it stands says you have to transfer three major components from the donor vehicle to retain the same description on the log book and therefore
the registration number, this includes the CHASSIS.... So if its not got little box sections or railway track held together by hope and prayer for a
chassis, its probably not a Dutton... I will leave you guys to work out what I will be doing at Stoneleigh next year...
The registrations of all the Duttons sold on ebay have been added to the club database along with the photo (which has been placed in the public
domain by using it on an ebay advert) When the database is fed into the home made ANPR unit..... Cue evil laughter...
Taken from Dutton owners club message boards, love this bit discribing a Dutton (So if its not got little box sections or railway track held together
by hope and prayer for a chassis, its probably not a Dutton... )
quote:
Originally posted by kj
I don't think we have any right (or requirement) at all to 'lean' on someone to do the right thing. Once the vehicle is sold its not their responsibility.
They have advertised it correctly and truthfully.