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Q plates V5 Qs
coyoteboy - 16/2/11 at 03:19 PM

Seems to be a bit of a grey area, can anyone clear it up for me as I've not absorbed it yet...

Build your own chassis = Q plate AFAIK

Q plate Emissions limits go off the year of the engine you fit (95 Audi engine, 95 emissions limits)

Q Plate tax status - based on car age too? i.e. pre 2001 engine gives you <1.6 or >1.6, anything above that gives you the scaled arrangement?

Part of choosing an engine/layout will be to keep costs down for me - if I end up having to pay £400 VED due to using a 2004 4.2V8 and get stung with recent emission limits I just won't bother following some of the routes I've considered. Advice appreciated!

Mr Whippy - 16/2/11 at 03:24 PM

do make sure you have proof of engine age and what I came out off

personally I'd build it maybe with an old carbed engine to get it through the IVA then after swap it for whatever you want

easy is my beach buggy, if you can still see the car through the smoke it passes emissions

[Edited on 16/2/11 by Mr Whippy]

T66 - 16/2/11 at 03:32 PM

My bec has a 2001 supercharged BB engine - does that mean my emissions will be based around a stock 2001 bb lump?


aslong as I can prove its date of manufacture from Honda

scootz - 16/2/11 at 03:44 PM

quote:
Originally posted by T66
My bec has a 2001 supercharged BB engine - does that mean my emissions will be based around a stock 2001 bb lump?

As long as I can prove its date of manufacture from Honda


That's my understanding.

coyoteboy - 16/2/11 at 03:57 PM

quote:
personally I'd build it maybe with an old carbed engine to get it through the IVA then after swap it for whatever you want


Thats one option but it does mean fitting an engine that is massively different size and fitment-wise from the one I'd choose - not sure many transverse V6s existed pre 80s! Plus, when you change the engine you still have to let them all know and it all changes anyway.

[Edited on 16/2/11 by coyoteboy]

loggyboy - 16/2/11 at 04:15 PM

quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
Build your own chassis = Q plate AFAIK


Correct

quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
Seems to be a bit of a grey area, can anyone clear it up for me as I've not absorbed it yet...
Q plate Emissions limits go off the year of the engine you fit (95 Audi engine, 95 emissions limits)

Based on this flowchart, based on age only:
http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/7.3%20Exhaust%20Emissions%20-%20Spark%20Ignition%20-%20non%20CAT%20Test.pdf

quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboyQ Plate tax status - based on car age too? i.e. pre 2001 engine gives you <1.6 or >1.6, anything above that gives you the scaled arrangement?


Always based on engine size and its 1549cc not 1600 (only 'type approved' cars have to worry about emmision based taxation

[Edited on 16/2/11 by loggyboy]

James - 16/2/11 at 04:46 PM

quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
Build your own chassis = Q plate AFAIK


Correct


[Edited on 16/2/11 by loggyboy]


Sorry, it's nothing to do with who built the chassis.

I have an age-related plate and built it myself!

Cheers,
James

coyoteboy - 16/2/11 at 05:00 PM

quote:
Sorry, it's nothing to do with who built the chassis.


My lack of detail there, I meant "self-designed" rather than self built, I think he understood where I was coming from but I admire the pedantry in light of correctness

Loggyboy- cheers for that, that clears things up much better. It's that last statement in the notes that worries me. Emissions test based on whats on the V5 - how do they decide what goes on the V5? Post 92 that suggests you'd be subject to the BET tests and so have to be <0.5% CO etc?

[Edited on 16/2/11 by coyoteboy]

loggyboy - 16/2/11 at 05:04 PM

quote:
Originally posted by James
Sorry, it's nothing to do with who built the chassis.

I have an age-related plate and built it myself!

Cheers,
James



Just going by the lovely government website:

If a new monocoque bodyshell or chassis from a specialist kit manufacturer is used (or an altered chassis or bodyshell from an existing vehicle) together with two major components from a donor vehicle, an age related mark will be assigned.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/BuyingAndSellingAVehicle/RegisteringAVehicle/DG_10014246

I guess thats open to interpretation on what 'from' means (ie 'supplied by' or 'manufacured by'

[Edited on 16/2/11 by loggyboy]

Snuggs - 16/2/11 at 05:07 PM

If you have enough parts from a donor AND DVLA know what they are doing then you will probably get an age related plate.

If not then you will probably get a Q.


Emissions at IVA are based on engine age.
Emissions at MOT are based on engine age if you have an age related plate or a visible smoke only test if you have a Q plate.


Tax is always based on engine capacity.

coyoteboy - 16/2/11 at 05:11 PM

So basically I can't physically get stung for £400 tax band due to droppign in a massive engine, but I can get stuck trying to get it to meet OEM emissions if it's a newish donor?

I think this will end up a Q plate, and i'm fine with that, it's likely to have at least 3 donors.

blakep82 - 16/2/11 at 05:16 PM

think i've got 6 different cars in mine Q plate will do me just fine

loggyboy - 16/2/11 at 05:56 PM

quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
It's that last statement in the notes that worries me. Emissions test based on whats on the V5 - how do they decide what goes on the V5? Post 92 that suggests you'd be subject to the BET tests and so have to be <0.5% CO etc?


Thats based on IVA, which I beleive works on the effective date of the engine:

“Effective Date”
The “effective date” used to determine the criteria applicable is -
the date of manufacture of the vehicle, except for an “Amateur Built” vehicle, a “Vehicle manufactured using parts of a registered vehicle” or a “Rebuilt vehicle” it shall be 1 January immediately preceding the date of manufacture of the vehicle’s engine if this is earlier.
If the “effective date” cannot be determined, it must be assumed to be on or after 1 August 1997.

So you can provide documentary evidence of your engines age it will be based on that age. If you cant then its based on the 1st aug 97 meaning CAT 1 test:

Vehicle effective date on or after 1 Aug ’95? Yes
Can you find an exact match in the analyser database or the In-Service Emissions Book?

Yes: Carry out a CAT test using vehicle specific limits

no: Carry out a CAT test using default limits Minimum oil temp: 60C Fast Idle: (2500 to 3000rpm) CO <= 0.3% (1st Sept 02 onwards CO<= 0.2%) HC <= 200ppm Lambda between 0.97 and 1.03 Idle: (450 to 1500rpm) CO <=0.5% (1st Sept 02 onwards CO <= 0.3%)

Check the IVA manual for full details.

loggyboy - 16/2/11 at 05:58 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Snuggs
Emissions at MOT are based on engine age if you have an age related plate or a visible smoke only test if you have a Q plate.


No, Emisions for MoT are based on the flowchart I posted. (well the smal box at the bottom), which basically means cars SVA'd or IVA'd will be based on emmissions on the V5, earlier than that will be smoke test.

HOWEVER if you IVA your car with a small engine, get it regsitered then change the engine, then your emmisions at MoT will be based on the original small engine.

[Edited on 16/2/11 by loggyboy]

theduck - 16/2/11 at 06:35 PM

Think I am more confused now than before I started reading.

So with the car I hope to build, which will be a Mk2 MX5 donor, emissions will be based on the original engine for IVA and MOT?

So if I then change the engine, emissions will be based on the original engine for MOT? Unless I get a Q plate? In which case its the smoke test?

adithorp - 16/2/11 at 07:07 PM

No.
When you IVA the car the emmision test will be based on the year of manufacture of your engine. Pre'95 has to be <3.5% CO and <1200ppmHC at idle. Post'95 has BETS test applied as no exact match to the car is available in the database so <0.3% CO <200ppm HC 0.97-1.03 lambda at fast idle (2500-3000rpm) ans <0.5%CO <200ppmHC at idle. Post'95 will require a 'cat to pass.

Subsequent MOT will be to the same limitsas that will be on the V5... unless the tester gets it wrong. Pre SVA Q's are visable smoke. If you change the engine DVLA won't alter the emmision data on the V5 so the MOT stays the same.

[Edited on 16/2/11 by adithorp]

coyoteboy - 16/2/11 at 10:27 PM

95 is the cut off then unlike "normal" cars when it's Aug '92?

wicket - 16/2/11 at 10:58 PM

I only had the engine from a known vehicle and got aged related (the same reg that the engine came from).

[Edited on 16/2/11 by wicket]

adithorp - 16/2/11 at 11:15 PM

quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
95 is the cut off then unlike "normal" cars when it's Aug '92?


Yes, '92 applies when they have a specific match to the vehicle in the database. Your kit (obviously) won't be in the data so it reverts to the BETS test and the cut of for that is 95. As I understand it, there's a complicated reason that it's that way to do with some tin-top manufacturers not meeting the 92 deadline and the rules got bent for them. All to our advantage