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get around IVA
puma931 - 4/5/12 at 10:55 AM

Is it possible to buy an old but registered kit car and trasfer the plate/chassis number to a newly build kit and then put it on the road?

Bluemoon - 4/5/12 at 11:00 AM

quote:
Originally posted by puma931
Is it possible to buy an old but registered kit car and trasfer the plate/chassis number to a newly build kit and then put it on the road?


No... Well unless you use enough of the old components on the "points" system..

[Edited on 4/5/12 by Bluemoon]

puma931 - 4/5/12 at 11:01 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Bluemoon
quote:
Originally posted by puma931
Is it possible to buy an old but registered kit car and trasfer the plate/chassis number to a newly build kit and then put it on the road?


No...


Why not? I ve seen loads of 1960's minis running arround in new shells...

Bluemoon - 4/5/12 at 11:03 AM

A new shell is o.k depends on "points" i.e. need receipt of chassis built to the original design.

Proby - 4/5/12 at 11:06 AM

quote:
Originally posted by puma931
Is it possible to buy an old but registered kit car and trasfer the plate/chassis number to a newly build kit and then put it on the road?


Of course you can! It's known as a false identity! And not far off the lines of ringing (apart from the stolen car bit), very dodgy, but you must know that surely?

And a mini that you mention is a reshell, not buying a new mini and banging on the chassis/reg number???

[Edited on 4/5/12 by Proby]

puma931 - 4/5/12 at 11:10 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Proby
quote:
Originally posted by puma931
Is it possible to buy an old but registered kit car and trasfer the plate/chassis number to a newly build kit and then put it on the road?


Of course you can! It's known as a false identity! And not far off the lines of ringing (apart from the stolen car bit), very dodgy, but you must know that surely?


Thats what I thought, but IMO only "slightly dodgy" if you buy and own both cars and destroy the old car afterwards, plus it still has to get an MOT.

computid - 4/5/12 at 11:15 AM

quote:
Originally posted by puma931
Is it possible to buy an old but registered kit car and trasfer the plate/chassis number to a newly build kit and then put it on the road?


It is possible, but very illegal and VERY frowned upon by everybody else in the kit car community. Not only because you are stripping an old kit car of its identity but because you are driving a mis-registered vehicle on the road.

Its like me building a seven out of a sierra and then slapping the sierra plates on it and driving it around. It's illegal. It used to happen a lot because it was unlikely you were going to get found out but nowadays with ANPR its highly likely you'll get found out and have your vehicle confiscated.

The only reason it MIGHT work with a kit car is because most traffic cops wont know the difference between a rickman ranger and a locost but if you get the one that does then your screwed.

I believe (and I could be wrong) that the punishment for having a mis-registered vehicle is confiscation of the vehicle and a £1000 fine. Not really worth it IMHO.

computid - 4/5/12 at 11:16 AM

quote:
Originally posted by puma931
plus it still has to get an MOT.


Oh yeah, and you might have some trouble with that too if the tester knows his kit cars and wants to cause you some pain.

gdp66 - 4/5/12 at 11:18 AM

If you buy an old locost or any 7 type car which is road registered.
Why can't you repair /replace with a new chassis and swap all of the parts over.
if you cut up the old chassis, whats illegal ?

puma931 - 4/5/12 at 11:19 AM

OK, thanks for the advice, I think I will prep the car for IVA.

designer - 4/5/12 at 11:20 AM

quote:

"slightly dodgy"


Is there any type of 'slight' crime?

It's cheating!

A1 - 4/5/12 at 11:22 AM

but if its the same car its coming off...ie an old crashed robin hood going onto another robin hood...


im not condoning or anything...

[Edited on 4/5/12 by A1]

puma931 - 4/5/12 at 11:23 AM

quote:
Originally posted by designer
quote:

"slightly dodgy"


Is there any type of 'slight' crime?

It's cheating!


Even if it is an old locost?

A1 - 4/5/12 at 11:24 AM

beat me to it

gdp66 - 4/5/12 at 11:27 AM

That was my point.

If you crash your Tiger/MK/GKD/Westfield/Caterham, you send it back to the manufacturer
They say it needs a new chassis. They rebuild it. It won't go for another IVA.

Whats the difference with picking up an old locost, which is correctly registered, and using another locost chassis to fix/rebuild

pdm - 4/5/12 at 11:30 AM

quote:
Originally posted by gdp66
That was my point.

If you crash your Tiger/MK/GKD/Westfield/Caterham, you send it back to the manufacturer
They say it needs a new chassis. They rebuild it. It won't go for another IVA.

Whats the difference with picking up an old locost, which is correctly registered, and using another locost chassis to fix/rebuild



Yes but it will go for a VIC check wouldn't it ?

Bluemoon - 4/5/12 at 11:33 AM

quote:
Originally posted by gdp66
That was my point.

If you crash your Tiger/MK/GKD/Westfield/Caterham, you send it back to the manufacturer
They say it needs a new chassis. They rebuild it. It won't go for another IVA.

Whats the difference with picking up an old locost, which is correctly registered, and using another locost chassis to fix/rebuild


You can't do that with an "old" chassis but if a "new one" direct from the manufacture and so long as you can get 8 points:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/BuyingAndSellingAVehicle/RegisteringAVehicle/Registeringakitcarrebuildorradicallyalteredvehicle/DG_191068

Now for a locost the manufacturers will be the original builder if home build chassis or a manufacture if bought.. or could any home constructor be a manufacturer??? That's probably the gray area...

Dan


[Edited on 4/5/12 by Bluemoon]

nib1980 - 4/5/12 at 11:36 AM

dont forget the IVA isn't just a tick box excercise , it's to make sure the vehicle is safe to be on the road. it's far more stringent than an MOT.

you can be the best engineer in the world, but you may have missed something or made a mistake that could kill you or other roads users.

blakep82 - 4/5/12 at 11:42 AM

haven't read through all the replies, but i can pretty much guess what they all say.

no, taking an old car (duttons are common) and stamping the chassis number and reg numbers and putting them on your new, or ex-race car (if i remember right) is illegal, its fraud, etc

however, taking say a caterham which has been damaged with a bent chassis, or a mini which is rusted, and replacing the chassis, WITH AN IDENTICAL ONE FROM A RECOGNISED MANUFACTURER (caterham or british motor heritage ltd in both of those cases) and transfering the chassis numbers is ok, as its just repairing the chassis, and a striaght chassis replacement.
HOWEVER! replacing a mini shell with a new carbon shell and transferring the numbers would not be allowed, as the original chassis wasn't carbon

somewhere in the middle must be a grey area, but what you're saying, ie to avoid IVA, is illegal, and may void your insurance if you have a crash and the car is inspected by someone who knows his stuff

[Edited on 4/5/12 by blakep82]

puma931 - 4/5/12 at 11:46 AM

quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
haven't read through all the replies, but i can pretty much guess what they all say.

no, taking an old car (duttons are common) and stamping the chassis number and reg numbers and putting them on your new, or ex-race car (if i remember right) is illegal, its fraud, etc

however, taking say a caterham which has been damaged with a bent chassis, or a mini which is rusted, and replacing the chassis, WITH AN IDENTICAL ONE FROM A RECOGNISED MANUFACTURER (caterham or british motor heritage ltd in both of those cases) and transfering the chassis numbers is ok, as its just repairing the chassis, and a striaght chassis replacement.
HOWEVER! replacing a mini shell with a new carbon shell and transferring the numbers would not be allowed, as the original chassis wasn't carbon

somewhere in the middle must be a grey area, but what you're saying, ie to avoid IVA, is illegal, and may void your insurance if you have a crash and the car is inspected by someone who knows his stuff

[Edited on 4/5/12 by blakep82]


OK. Understand.

Dick Axtell - 4/5/12 at 02:46 PM

quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
however, taking say a caterham which has been damaged with a bent chassis,..........., and replacing the chassis, WITH AN IDENTICAL ONE FROM A RECOGNISED MANUFACTURER..............and transfering the chassis numbers is ok, as its just repairing the chassis, and a straight chassis replacement.


This is exactly what happens with Land Rovers. Indeed, there are engineering outfits which specialise in LR chassis replacements, and they don't have to undergo IVA test. Because the chassis comes from the original manufacturer, it has already undergone type approval testing. I've seen a 1963-reg Landie, sporting radius bars + coil spring suspension (i.e. Defender style), and these were definitely not around in the early 60s versions. Older LRs carried the traditional live axle-on-cart-springs arrangement.

(We tried out independent suspension on another 4x4, using Flexitor suspension arms. Insufficient traction for dealing with off-road conditions!!!).

emwmarine - 4/5/12 at 02:55 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Dick Axtell
quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
however, taking say a caterham which has been damaged with a bent chassis,..........., and replacing the chassis, WITH AN IDENTICAL ONE FROM A RECOGNISED MANUFACTURER..............and transfering the chassis numbers is ok, as its just repairing the chassis, and a straight chassis replacement.


This is exactly what happens with Land Rovers. Indeed, there are engineering outfits which specialise in LR chassis replacements, and they don't have to undergo IVA test. Because the chassis comes from the original manufacturer, it has already undergone type approval testing. I've seen a 1963-reg Landie, sporting radius bars + coil spring suspension (i.e. Defender style), and these were definitely not around in the early 60s versions. Older LRs carried the traditional live axle-on-cart-springs arrangement.

(We tried out independent suspension on another 4x4, using Flexitor suspension arms. Insufficient traction for dealing with off-road conditions!!!).


And in the land rover world the forums are full of newer land rovers being passed off as older ones (to avoid car tax) being reported to DVLA.

Dick Axtell - 4/5/12 at 03:55 PM

quote:
Originally posted by emwmarine
And in the land rover world the forums are full of newer land rovers being passed off as older ones (to avoid car tax) being reported to DVLA.

That's news to me! And helps to clarify things, slightly. Which probably explains why I haven't seen that 63-reg LR around so recently. On the other hand, if the DVLA is happy for the re-chassis-ed vehicle to continue carrying its original reg, why shouldn't the owner continue claiming pre-1972 road tax qualification?

billy - 4/5/12 at 05:39 PM

You could ways get hold of a dutton logbook! I'm sure lots have

MakeEverything - 4/5/12 at 05:51 PM

Lets not lose sight of the purpose of IVA, Safety.

coyoteboy - 4/5/12 at 06:48 PM

As far as I'm concerned if you're trying to avoid an IVA it's because you think you're likely to fail it as buying a donor to swap parts from would cost just as much. I'd be worried the car you'd created would be a death trap.

puma931 - 4/5/12 at 07:55 PM

quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
As far as I'm concerned if you're trying to avoid an IVA it's because you think you're likely to fail it as buying a donor to swap parts from would cost just as much. I'd be worried the car you'd created would be a death trap.

It would fail on all the bits like sharp edges, exposed nuts and no radius on the dash etc, but would probably pass an MOT. I think I will trailer it around and when the temptation to drive it on the road kicks in, I will have to go through the pain of the IVA.

Do most people remove the IVA stuff (edging, side indicator, and nut covers etc) after they have passed, or is this part of future MOTs?

tomgregory2000 - 4/5/12 at 08:06 PM

All my sva stuff fell off the day after i passed

rusty nuts - 4/5/12 at 09:18 PM

quote:
Originally posted by tomgregory2000
All my sva stuff fell off the day after i passed



But at least the car had been visibly inspected for decent quality welds properly installed components etc and a load of other stuff that isn't checked during an MOT test . Agreed, my Sierra steering wheel came off as soon as I got home from SVA , a bit longer than the tester suggested which was to fit the "correct" steering wheel in the test center car park after the test. IMHO anyone who does as the OP suggests deserves to have the car confiscated and crushed