Hi all,

I know that with this group, distance between p-clips for brake lines and fuel lines (150-200 mm/6-8 inches) and harness (300 mm/1 ft) is as redundant as the dreaded oil thread on other forums and has been discussed ad naseum, but...

Do those suggested distances refer to "as the crow flies" (straight line) or the "flight of the bumblebee" following the sometimes torturous curves that my brake lines have to follow. Following the curves, it is nearly impossible to keep the distance on my front brake lines down to 150 mm between p-clips.

I know that it's somewhat subjective and depends on the mood of the IVA official, but does anyone know?

Thanks,
Steve, in the NLs

IIRC the distances for fuel and brakes are not specified, its only worded as 'dequately secure'.

For wiring it is specified as 300mm, and its unlikely to be measured at all, just as long as it looks right.
Best thing is to have them in secure conduit, as again as long as its adequtely secure their is not fixed measurement.
Its just loose cables that are measured. As as things arent loose or likely to catch on anything it will be fine.


[Edited on 2-11-12 by loggyboy]

Yeah - sorry that I was unclear:
My real question is if the SUGGESTED distances (of the brake and fuel lines) refer to straight distance from clip to clip or do those numbers refer to distance along the curves, too?
But "thanks for playing"!
Cheers,
Steve, in the NLs

That what im saying, there is no suggested measurements, only what people have done before, so its impossbible to say how it can be measured.
Put it this way, if you have a copper line that can be faily easily wobbled to touch part of the chassis or anything else, (without physically deforming the pipe) then its probably too loose.

If I was running wire brake lines and the next distance was right on a curve or weld then I would fix it either side. Surely IVA wont fail for too many and the extra weight is grams.

The satisfaction of a tidier build and security of lines is far more valuable.

if you go with 300mm round the run of the cable/pipe, then i can't think of a situation where 'as the crow flies' will be a greater distance, so stick with round the route of the cable, and you can go wrong*

*i think...

quote:

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Originally posted by blakep82
if you go with 300mm round the run of the cable/pipe, then i can't think of a situation where 'as the crow flies' will be a greater distance, so stick with round the route of the cable, and you can go wrong*

*i think...

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Ok, let me re-phrase, again...
... my build has a couple instances where it's p-clip distance exceeds the recommended value if measured around the bends, but would be considered ok when measured as-the-crow-flies.
Must I re-route (requiring newly-made pipes, which I don't wanna do) or is the as-the-crow-flies measurement what matters to iva?
Thanks

quote:

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Originally posted by ElmrPhD
Must I re-route (requiring newly-made pipes, which I don't wanna do) or is the as-the-crow-flies measurement what matters to iva?
Thanks

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As a general rule of thumb a brake pipe vibrates when you twang it with your thumb then it needs more support otherwise no more than 300mm/1ft

Also don't forget the brake pipe clip doesn't have to be mounted directly on the chassis it can be mounted on a bracket attached to the chassis.

Pclips are not probably the best way to clip brake pipes plastic push in clips which are quick, easy and neat are available as singles, doubles and as tripe brake pipes + fuel line. You will also find types that stand off 25 mm from the mounting hole and seperator clips designed only to maintain separation between two pipes.

[Edited on 2/11/12 by britishtrident]

As a guide - when I put my car through the SVA the tester looked at the P-clips etc quite closely, then grabbed them in various places & tried to waggle them around. If whatever he waggled touched something else nearby then it probably would have failed.

As said above - distance between clamps doesn't come into the equation - security of whatever's being held is what's tested.

Gotcha!
Thanks guys - I will proceed to wiggle...
Cheers,
Steve, in the NLs

You're not going to fail if you have lots of clips, but not enough and you'll fail due to insufficient security - if they are in awkward places it could be a pain. If in doubt the 4 to 6 inches should gaurentee you don't fail.

quote:

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Originally posted by chillis
You're not going to fail if you have lots of clips, but not enough and you'll fail due to insufficient security - if they are in awkward places it could be a pain. If in doubt the 4 to 6 inches should gaurentee you don't fail.

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My Westfield build manual states 150mm spacing as an SVA requirement. Can't see the harm in it myself, better to be secure than sorry for the sake of a few extra clips

The IVA is focused on making one off vehicles meet the same standards and practices as production vehicles, proper production style plastic brake pipe clips spaced as per production car practice won't attract the testers attention. In contrast if the tester sees a straight run of pipe with the clips spaced at 4"/100mm could well attract attention. As rule if the pipe touches any thing else when prodded or poked or vibrates like a double base string it is an instant fail. Puka brake pipe clips give the pipe more clearance from the chassis than P Clips they are also much quicker to fit and make the pipe quick and easy to remove for maintenance.


Land Rover Defender Range Rover Brake Pipe Clips (10)

My neighbour, who built a pilgrim Cobra 10+ years ago, did all his wiring and brake lines, about every 100mm (4"
looked overkill to me, but his response, was that all it cost was probaly an extra 25 rivets and p clips, so the cost was nothing, yet everything WAS VERY SECURE

if in doubt, and it sounds like you are, i would add more,

It would seriously pee me off if i was to fail IVA, and have to pay for a retest, all over about £2 worth of p clips

steve