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VOSA what a croc of sh1t
tcr - 16/11/12 at 12:09 PM

just had a call from vosa saying they will NOT accept my iva application as all the receipts are not in my name !!! so basically if you now buy a part built kit car you can no longer register it for the road . iv never heard of this before has anyone else?

Ben_Copeland - 16/11/12 at 12:18 PM

Just make you own receipts, ms words your friend

40inches - 16/11/12 at 12:25 PM

I bought my MK as a part built, 11 years ago, way before the requirement for receipts came into the equation.
When this became a requirement I went back to the person I got it from, and he made me out a receipt detailing every single thing that I paid for. I haven't kept receipts for many of the parts I purchased before 2007, but Microsoft Word/Excel is a wonderful thing
Couldn't you either go back to whoever you got yours from, or "sell" it to a friend and "buy" it back with a full inventory on a receipt?

T66 - 16/11/12 at 01:07 PM

That doesnt sound right, if they are unhappy with the cars origins then it gets a Q plate. Who are vosa to deny home built cars registration based on your name not being on a receipt?


ask to speak to someone else, or ring another vosa office

tcr - 16/11/12 at 01:14 PM

thats ok but what happens if they question it when we go to apply again
i asked him what does it matter how many ppl were involved in the build process as long as it passes the iva test and he didnt have an answer


[Edited on 16/11/12 by tcr]

RichardK - 16/11/12 at 01:20 PM

Sell to a mate and buy them back with separate receipts or just make them up and go to another vosa center.

Simples

Hope you get sorted mate

Rich

[Edited on 16/11/12 by RichardK]

jps - 16/11/12 at 01:24 PM

Where's the requirement for receipts for everything documented? I have bought a part-built chassis, and a donor from e-Bay in a private sale, so need to know if I need to start 'filling in gaps' in paperwork...!

tcr - 16/11/12 at 01:38 PM

if i was you make sure every receipt you have or will be getting has your name on them via the previous suggestions above . the guy at the vosa office was a complete dick ! i said to him so your telling me iv paid £xxxx for a car i cant put on the road , his reply was yeah but thats your problem not mine

Bluemoon - 16/11/12 at 01:42 PM

My experience of VOSA has been good, the DVLA is a different matter. Might be worth speaking to someone else at VOSA..

tcr - 16/11/12 at 01:46 PM

apparently all the iva applications get processed by just one bloke , he also said the build pics look like they were took in a factory when you can clearly see its a garage at the side of someones house ffs

Bluemoon - 16/11/12 at 01:49 PM

Ask to speak to his manager?? Sounds like a jobsworth...

tcr - 16/11/12 at 02:04 PM

apparently they are no longer to allow kits that have not been built from scratch by the person applying for the iva test !!! which is going to kill the market for part build kits

jps - 16/11/12 at 02:08 PM

quote:
Originally posted by tcr
apparently they are no longer to allow kits that have not been built from scratch by the person applying for the iva test !!! which is going to kill the market for part build kits


Hmmm.... Sounds like a load of rubbish to me. Define 'built from scratch'... Do you need to quarry the iron ore for the steel yourself?

tcr - 16/11/12 at 02:13 PM

the same person who starts the build has to finish it and iva it !!!

jps - 16/11/12 at 02:20 PM

Yeah, my point is that how do you define 'starting the build'... I was being a bit facetious... But taken to it's logical extension - a 'kit' is part built - i.e. someone else has welded the chassis together, etc...

You've had me worrying - but here's something to throw back at them (hopefully)...

When you apply for IVA you have to also submit an amateur build declaration (at least the current info on Business Link suggests this - hopefully it's not out of date).

On this form (http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/Transport_files/119_IVA_Amateur_Built_Declaration1010.doc)
one of the options to be ticked is "The vehicle was partially built by an individual... ... and I purchased the vehicle and completed the assembly of the vehicle..."

How can it not be an allowable way to have built a car if it is there on the form as an option??!!!

tcr - 16/11/12 at 02:28 PM

On this form (http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/Transport_files/119_IVA_Amateur_Built_Declaration1010.doc)
one of the options to be ticked is "The vehicle was partially built by an individual... ... and I purchased the vehicle and completed the assembly of the vehicle..."

How can it not be an allowable way to have built a car if it is there on the form as an option??!!!



because they have changed it without altering the forms or telling anyone about it ... trust me i asked in (a rather loud voice )

tcr - 16/11/12 at 02:34 PM

no doubt the price of rotten old duttons are about to go up soon ha ha ha

T66 - 16/11/12 at 03:38 PM

This sounds like one dickheads interpretation here, if for example MK supply me a chassis, I didnt build it , they did...so no IVA ?



This still doesnt sound right.

jps - 16/11/12 at 03:52 PM

The Amateur Built declaration itself says that it is based on the following legislation
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2009/717/made

If that legislation hasn't been changed (and seen as it was passed in 2009 I'd suggest it fairly unlikely AND would certainly have been something that kit car builders would have been jumping up and down about) then VOSA can't just 'change the rules'...

Agree - it sounds like you've just come up against an awkward person...

[Edited on 16/11/12 by jps]

jps - 16/11/12 at 04:01 PM

In fact - here's the specific bit (i've bolded for clarity):

A vehicle is an amateur built vehicle if—

(a)the vehicle was—
(i)constructed or assembled or
(ii)having previously been registered under the 1994 Act, structurally modified,
for the personal use of a person (R) who is a relevant individual, and
(b)the whole, or a substantial part, of the construction, assembly or modification was carried out—
(i)by R,
(ii)by one or more relevant individuals acting on behalf, and under the direction, of R, or
(iii)by R and one or more relevant individuals acting on behalf, and under the direction, of R.

It doesn't say it has to solely be built by the person presenting it for IVA. It just says a 'substantial part' of the work has to be carried out by the person who is the intended user... And, although I haven't bolded it, line (ii) even says you can ask someone else to do all that work on your behalf!!!

Peteff - 16/11/12 at 04:17 PM

I know it was years ago and SVA at the time but I didn't need to show any receipts for the test, only when it came to registering the car and then they only gave the envelope full of receipts a cursory glance.

tcr - 16/11/12 at 05:41 PM

Well i dont know if it was just him being an arse or not but thats what he said on the phone

chillis - 16/11/12 at 05:51 PM

quote:
Originally posted by tcr
Well i dont know if it was just him being an arse or not but thats what he said on the phone


Can only suggest appealing the refusal, the case would then have to be looked at and the reason for refusal compared against the letter of the IVA regulation.
Even if the car was built at a factory it's acceptable so long as you have a reciept to show you requested the work and you are not in the car building business.
How do kit car companies like Westfield and Caterham get turn key cars through the IVA?

nick205 - 16/11/12 at 08:29 PM

Sell it me for a £1 and I'll sell it back for £1 with an itemised receipt from Vic's Onourably Source Autos

iank - 16/11/12 at 09:47 PM

quote:
Originally posted by chillis

How do kit car companies like Westfield and Caterham get turn key cars through the IVA?


They don't need to, the way they sell complete cars is using small series type approval

http://www.dft.gov.uk/vca/vehicletype/national-small-series.asp

Simplifying they do an extra hard IVA test on a specfic model (say R500) and then in return for promising to build them all exactly the same they get a big book of pre-passed MAC forms up to a maximum number per year.

Ben_Copeland - 16/11/12 at 10:45 PM

quote:
Originally posted by tcr
thats ok but what happens if they question it when we go to apply again
i asked him what does it matter how many ppl were involved in the build process as long as it passes the iva test and he didnt have an answer


[Edited on 16/11/12 by tcr]



I doubt very much if theres just one bloke that does it.

Resend it with valid receipts and fresh pictures, and i'm sure it'll just go through unnoticed.

He sounds like a right cock

Dangle_kt - 16/11/12 at 11:46 PM

I sent a covering letter, and a load of photos of the build - it was obviously done in my garage and steves back yard, even though I bought it part built.

They didn't even ask for receipts, as I explained I bought it part built and the sale included the parts to pretty much finish it.

Covering letters are great things - if worded politely, are honest and the photos back them up I dont see why it wouldn't be successful.

People in these sorts of jobs dont get a bonus by refusing or whatever - they also dont get one for letting car through, so work WITH THEM, make their job EASY and be friendly and I've found it works well.

Getting into a head on argument with someone, appealing decisions etc. doesn't work well, as they have nothing to loose and you have everything to.

Mr Whippy - 16/11/12 at 11:59 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Dangle_kt
Getting into a head on argument with someone, appealing decisions etc. doesn't work well, as they have nothing to loose and you have everything to.


well said

tcr - 17/11/12 at 02:04 AM

Thats all well and good when the person your talking to is reasonable not giving comments like 'you bought it part built thats your problem not mine! I sent in full build documentation including over 60 photos and a file full of receipts. the paperwork was filled in corectly including the part about the kit being started by someone else , are you saying i should just accept the fact iv spent £xxxx amount on a car not to use it on the road just because some bloke who comes out with comments like that says so ?

SteveMX5 - 17/11/12 at 07:50 AM

quote:
Originally posted by tcr
Thats all well and good when the person your talking to is reasonable not giving comments like 'you bought it part built thats your problem not mine! I sent in full build documentation including over 60 photos and a file full of receipts. the paperwork was filled in corectly including the part about the kit being started by someone else , are you saying i should just accept the fact iv spent £xxxx amount on a car not to use it on the road just because some bloke who comes out with comments like that says so ?


I'm sorry but where has any previous comment said you should just do what you've said above. There have been some very constructive comments which I for one will take some tips from. Maybe you just need to calm down a little and think about your next move with a fresh head. Tbh if I was the person at VOSA and you talked to me in the manner of your last post you would get nowhere.

Sorry if this offends it is not the intention.

Acc8braman - 17/11/12 at 08:14 AM

Surely VOSA can't change the rules if law states something else?

iank - 17/11/12 at 09:37 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Acc8braman
Surely VOSA can't change the rules if law states something else?


Law says construction must be done by an amateur, VOSA have to implement that and get to decide (and change if they think fit) what evidence is acceptable that a build is truly amateur.

I saw somewhere that a few companies were trying to skirt the law by building cars completely (maybe leaving a few minor components to be fitted) and delivering them to the customer to SVA as an amateur build. So things got tightened and photo's of the build were required. Maybe some other scam with receipts has been pulled at some point.

40inches - 17/11/12 at 10:34 AM

tcr, I think it's time to destress.
Look upon the incident as a trial run, like a failed IVA, reapply putting into practice the advice in this thread.
This is what I did/would do; Make out a new receipt, rewording it to:
Sellers name, address and date
Received from "whoever" the sum of £whatever for MK Indy kit of parts (see what I did there, no mention of part built)
For full inventory please see attached

Then get together the original receipt and all the receipts you have, sort out all the ones with your name on and put to one side.
Make out the above receipt and then list the complete MK package as in the kit, plus all the other bits not in your name, make a list for the attachment and take it to all to the seller for him to sign, including the list.
If you cant get in touch with the seller or he will not do it, be a little creative
If you don't have a photo of the stripped down chassis, Google is your friend.
You are about 20mins away from me, so if you need help you are welcome to pop over for any help I can give you.

tcr - 17/11/12 at 12:53 PM

Thanks im popping over to see richard at gbs when he gets back on monday .he said they have had the same problems in the past with the same guy at vosa so hopfully we can get something sorted .... Fingers crossed

Ps the bike in your profile pic looks very similar to one my dad used to race back in the 70's and 80's Andy Ashton Racing from shirebrook

[Edited on 17/11/12 by tcr]

40inches - 17/11/12 at 02:46 PM

Lets hope so, offer still stands
I raced that bike in 1973-74 it is a Fath tuned ex Grand Prix bike that came from Billy Nelson, your Dad will probably remember him.

tcr - 17/11/12 at 03:12 PM

Il ask him next time i see him , he raced 125 and 250cc with a guy called phil rawson i believe

thetankwad - 11/12/12 at 09:47 PM

What was the outcome?