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IVA worries with donor vehicles!
Zagato - 19/3/13 at 10:55 AM

I want to build a kit car and a Caterham 'complete kit' is top of the list largely because there will be no worries with the IVA as they obviously put the same spec cars through themselves.

There are however some other kits on the market I would be interested in such as the Hawk AC ACE but these require donor parts and I read somewhere that the DVLA or IVA people were tightening down on this type of build and even inspecting cars that were built in the past. A friend has a Nova and she said the DVLA were stripping some with proper registrations and putting Q plates on them but this was a while ago.

Bottom line I don't want to get caught out with proposed IVA changes halfway through a build so am I limited to a Caterham or similar in factory spec!

loggyboy - 19/3/13 at 11:41 AM

IVA has nothing to do with registering the cars. The IVA merely inpsects the road worthyness of the car and doesnt care where the parts come from.

The DVLA are a law unto themselves, and therefore you will here mixed reviews on what can happen.

From what ive seen they seem to be pushing people in to have Q plates for donor based cars as there is no longer any reference on the website to age related plates (ie you get a new registration but it carries the same age letter as the donor, ie J plate donor, J plate kit car). However when emails have been sent to query this the responce comes back saying you can still get age replated plates as long as 2 of the major components from the donor are retained.

deezee - 19/3/13 at 12:10 PM

I think you're friend might be talking about the DVLA amnesty in 1998 when any incorrectly registered kitcar could be properly registered as a Q plate, without needing a test. This was before the SVA, now the IVA came into effect.

My car is built with a donor and went through the IVA with minor changes required (some lock nuts and trim). That was it. The DVLA gave me aged related plate as I could prove where my components came from (The donor vehicle V5). There are no planned changes to the system.

I think you're worrying over nothing here. Kit Cars are easy to get through, as long as you build with the IVA / safety in mind and keep your paper work for the DVLA checks.

mcerd1 - 19/3/13 at 12:12 PM

as above, the worst that can happen is you'll get a Q plate
but an age related plate shouldn't be hard to get


you can get a new plate on any kit, but you need to prove that all major components are new apart from one that is alowed to be reconditioned

[Edited on 19/3/2013 by mcerd1]

snapper - 19/3/13 at 01:30 PM

A friend has recently passed IVA with an older model Robin Hood using a Sierra donor
No issues with the IVA now looking for an age related from DVLA
The rules are still current about Q, age rated or new reg
There is always conjecture about the mot this should be 3 years after kit registration most get this but DVLA do sometimes try and ask for yearly

VOSA want it built properly
DVLA want it registered properly
As long as you meet there criterior you can't go wrong

Zagato - 19/3/13 at 01:53 PM

OK found the link I originally read from about EU proposals to stop the modification of vehicles and killing the kit car industry - obviously nothing has happened, there is no update on the site I can find and we would have heard about it all by now. Another EU brainwave to ignore...

http://www.the-ace.org.uk/armageddon/

Not Anumber - 19/3/13 at 02:49 PM

I built an AC Ace replica many years ago on a Gerry Hawkridge chassis and ran it under donor MGB registration for a while. When I sold my half to the mate I built it with he got round to putting it through the SVA test (predecessor of the IVA) mainly so that it would be easier when it came to eventually selling it on.
I very seriously doubt if anyone would have ever pulled it over under the old registration as it looked like an old British convertible that could have very easilly passed for a custom bodied MG.

Rogthebandit - 28/6/13 at 12:51 PM

Hello

Just reading through this tread, i have just been to the dvla today asking about rehistering my indy. I asked about the age related plate, i have the donor car logbook in my name but the guy told me i could only apply for age related from the donor if i had the original recipt for the kitcar chassis? Is this correct? I bought the kit second hand. The told me to see if i could sorce the original reciept from prvious owners ect and did say it would help if i could get the reciept in my name? With out the original reciept he said it would be a q plate. Anyone come across this before?

daveb666 - 28/6/13 at 01:00 PM

Bits you need receipts for to get age related plate:

Chassis/Bodyshell
Suspension
Engine
Transmission
Axle(s)
Steering Assembly

Slimy38 - 28/6/13 at 01:42 PM

quote:
Originally posted by daveb666
Bits you need receipts for to get age related plate:

Chassis/Bodyshell
Suspension
Engine
Transmission
Axle(s)
Steering Assembly


OK, I'm going to muddy the water a little bit, does that mean that because I'm building my own chassis that I cannot get an age related plate? Even though everything else will come from one single donor? I have the receipt for the raw metal, does that count?

[Edited on 28/6/13 by Slimy38]

loggyboy - 28/6/13 at 01:45 PM

quote:
Originally posted by daveb666
Bits you need receipts for to get age related plate:

Chassis/Bodyshell
Suspension
Engine
Transmission
Axle(s)
Steering Assembly


This is a confusing statement.

You dont need any 'receipts' for an age related plate you need to show that you have used at least 2 of the above components from the donor car.

You do need 'reciepts' for the all of the above to get a NEW/current registration.


[Edited on 28-6-13 by loggyboy]

daveb666 - 28/6/13 at 01:50 PM

quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
This is a confusing statement.

You dont need any 'receipts' for an age related plate you need to show that you have used at least 2 of the above components from the donor car.

You do need 'reciepts' for the all of the above to get a NEW/current registration.

[Edited on 28-6-13 by loggyboy]


True, my bad. The above is needed for a 'new' plate.

loggyboy - 28/6/13 at 01:56 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Rogthebandit
Hello

Just reading through this tread, i have just been to the dvla today asking about rehistering my indy. I asked about the age related plate, i have the donor car logbook in my name but the guy told me i could only apply for age related from the donor if i had the original recipt for the kitcar chassis? Is this correct? I bought the kit second hand. The told me to see if i could sorce the original reciept from prvious owners ect and did say it would help if i could get the reciept in my name? With out the original reciept he said it would be a q plate. Anyone come across this before?


I have seen this mentioned, the key is the following wording :

A vehicle will retain its donor registration mark if either the original unmodified chassis or unaltered monocoque bodyshell and two other major components are used. If a new monocoque bodyshell or chassis from a specialist kit manufacturer is used (or an altered chassis or bodyshell from an existing vehicle) together with two major components from a donor vehicle, an age related mark will be assigned. The mark will be based on the age of the donor vehicle. An IVA, ESVA, SVA or MSVA test will be required to register the vehicle.

Where there are insufficient parts from a donor vehicle or in cases where the original registration mark is unknown, an IVA, ESVA, SVA or MSVA certificate will be required to register the vehicle and a 'Q' prefix registration number will be allocated.



The above wording is no longer shown on the DVLA website but it should still be the case.

In otherwords if you or anyone else built the chassis from scratch then you cant have a donor age related plate. However im sure you can 'find' the reciept that came with the chassis you bought from 'ABC kit cars'

Lots of people have managed to get age related plates on home made chassis


[Edited on 28-6-13 by loggyboy]

Slimy38 - 28/6/13 at 02:49 PM

quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy

In otherwords if you or anyone else built the chassis from scratch then you cant have a donor age related plate. However im sure you can 'find' the reciept that came with the chassis you bought from 'ABC kit cars'

Lots of people have managed to get age related plates on home made chassis


[Edited on 28-6-13 by loggyboy]


I like your thinking! And there I was thinking that me taking a lot of photo's as I built up my chassis would help me at registration stage.

[Edited on 28/6/13 by Slimy38]

daveb666 - 28/6/13 at 02:56 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Slimy38
I like your thinking! And there I was thinking that me taking a lot of photo's as I built up my chassis would help me at registration stage.

[Edited on 28/6/13 by Slimy38]


Still worth doing - the IVA man may wish to see things on the car which he is unable to access at the time of inspection.

Rogthebandit - 28/6/13 at 04:34 PM

quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
quote:
Originally posted by Rogthebandit
Hello

Just reading through this tread, i have just been to the dvla today asking about rehistering my indy. I asked about the age related plate, i have the donor car logbook in my name but the guy told me i could only apply for age related from the donor if i had the original recipt for the kitcar chassis? Is this correct? I bought the kit second hand. The told me to see if i could sorce the original reciept from prvious owners ect and did say it would help if i could get the reciept in my name? With out the original reciept he said it would be a q plate. Anyone come across this before?


I have seen this mentioned, the key is the following wording :

A vehicle will retain its donor registration mark if either the original unmodified chassis or unaltered monocoque bodyshell and two other major components are used. If a new monocoque bodyshell or chassis from a specialist kit manufacturer is used (or an altered chassis or bodyshell from an existing vehicle) together with two major components from a donor vehicle, an age related mark will be assigned. The mark will be based on the age of the donor vehicle. An IVA, ESVA, SVA or MSVA test will be required to register the vehicle.

Where there are insufficient parts from a donor vehicle or in cases where the original registration mark is unknown, an IVA, ESVA, SVA or MSVA certificate will be required to register the vehicle and a 'Q' prefix registration number will be allocated.



The above wording is no longer shown on the DVLA website but it should still be the case.

In otherwords if you or anyone else built the chassis from scratch then you cant have a donor age related plate. However im sure you can 'find' the reciept that came with the chassis you bought from 'ABC kit cars'

Lots of people have managed to get age related plates on home made chassis


[Edited on 28-6-13 by loggyboy]



In terms of reciept, do you think it needs to be in your name? I.e. if not in your name then i supose you need to show some history of buyers ect?

Also would there need to be an original chassis/ref number to tally up to the reciept?

deezee - 28/6/13 at 05:11 PM

quote:
Originally posted by daveb666
Bits you need receipts for to get age related plate:

Chassis/Bodyshell
Suspension
Engine
Transmission
Axle(s)
Steering Assembly


Not strictly true. You only need some of those not all of them. Letter from ford for engine age and my gearbox, brakes, diff and hubs came off the v5 donor. The dvla forms don't ask for any more than that. I got an age related plate off the v5 and my engine letter. You only need your reciepts to prove amateur build status.

loggyboy - 28/6/13 at 10:05 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Rogthebandit

In terms of reciept, do you think it needs to be in your name? I.e. if not in your name then i supose you need to show some history of buyers ect?

Also would there need to be an original chassis/ref number to tally up to the reciept?


I would think the receipt would show the date the price and the item purchased. If you wanted to add an invoice name etc, yours would be best. Be concise and vague lol... ie exactly what the chassis is. Ie 1x Locost chassis to RonChampion specification ? Maybe? But no serials as that isnt required to be added by the chassis builder, only the car builder who would ask the DVLA for one or make one up. Dont forget this receipt would be a few years old so wont look like its fresh of the laser printer!

coyoteboy - 29/6/13 at 05:06 AM

Whats wrong with a Q? I cant see any real problems with one.

Slimy38 - 29/6/13 at 07:49 AM

quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
Whats wrong with a Q? I cant see any real problems with one.


I don't have major problems with it either. There's obviously the public perception of a q plate, with a potential drop in resale value. There was suggestion of slightly higher insurance premiums, but on the other hand the mot emissions test is really easy.

In my situation i am using a single donor, so there isn't much effort in putting together the right paperwork and getting an age related plate. But if it turns out to be too much hassle i'll just drop to a q plate.

robinj66 - 29/6/13 at 10:58 AM

Surely when you make your chassis, You become the manufacturer (and that should be enough to satisfy the DVLA assuming sufficient paperwork to prove provenance)

[Edited on 29/6/13 by robinj66]

loggyboy - 29/6/13 at 01:31 PM

quote:
Originally posted by robinj66
Surely when you make your chassis, You become the manufacturer (and that should be enough to satisfy the DVLA assuming sufficient paperwork to prove provenance)

[Edited on 29/6/13 by robinj66]


But arguably not 'specialist'. Which is why some have managed and others dont.

Rogthebandit - 1/7/13 at 05:47 PM




In otherwords if you or anyone else built the chassis from scratch then you cant have a donor age related plate. However im sure you can 'find' the reciept that came with the chassis you bought from 'ABC kit cars'

Lots of people have managed to get age related plates on home made

,

What about if the they want to contact abc kit cars? do they do that?

loggyboy - 1/7/13 at 06:23 PM

No Idea, but I doubt it. If so just tell them they went out of business.

Slimy38 - 1/7/13 at 06:26 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Rogthebandit



In otherwords if you or anyone else built the chassis from scratch then you cant have a donor age related plate. However im sure you can 'find' the reciept that came with the chassis you bought from 'ABC kit cars'

Lots of people have managed to get age related plates on home made

,

What about if the they want to contact abc kit cars? do they do that?


Judging by the unfortunate failure rate of most kit car manufacturers, I reckon even a properly bought one might be orphaned between purchase and IVA...

coyoteboy - 2/7/13 at 10:43 AM

What's the definition of specialist?

loggyboy - 2/7/13 at 11:39 AM

Dictionary definition would be the obvious answer!

Cambridge:
someone who has a lot of experience, knowledge, or skill in a particular subject

Oxford:
noun
a person who concentrates primarily on a particular subject or activity; a person highly skilled in a specific and restricted field


Although its largely irrelevant as ive known of many individuals who have managed age related plates without having specialist chassis. But its obvious their intent is a non-home made chassis.

coyoteboy - 2/7/13 at 12:17 PM

Register a company under "coyoteboyracing". Make chassis, recondition all parts used, write receipts to prove it. Claim new....?


[Edited on 2/7/13 by coyoteboy]