Board logo

Trailer towing- would I be legal.
jon200 - 9/2/14 at 12:10 PM

I'm on a post 1997 rubbish license, I have a zafira which weighs 1457kg and will tow 1500kg. Does this mean I can tow a trailer with a MAM of 1500kg max, with the car on as long as the weight of the kitcar, trailer and car doesn't exceed 3500kg

Also where do I stand with regards to a towing dolly legally?

Cheers Jon

Ben_Copeland - 9/2/14 at 12:24 PM

From what I understand:

You can't drive a vehicle train higher than 3500kg
You can't tow a trailer rated higher than the cars limit (empty or not) and/or rated heavier than 3500kg including cars weight.
You can't tow a trailer heavier than the cars weight or limit.
You can't tow an un braked trailer heavier than 750kg.

eddie99 - 9/2/14 at 12:44 PM

MAM of trailer has to be under unladen weight of vehicle

So 1450kg

And MaM of car + mam of trailer (1450) must be less than 3.5 so car MAM has to be under 2 tonnes

To get around this you will need the mam of trailer down to 1200 to give you 250kg towards mam of vehicle likely over 2 tonnes

bi22le - 9/2/14 at 12:47 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Ben_Copeland
From what I understand:

You can't drive a vehicle train higher than 3500kg
You can't tow a trailer rated higher than the cars limit (empty or not) and/or rated heavier than 3500kg including cars weight.
You can't tow a trailer heavier than the cars weight or limit.
You can't tow an un braked trailer heavier than 750kg.


Sounds about right.

The main difference between a rubbish liecence (like mine) and a old mans liecence is taht we cant be trusted to judge the weight of or trailer. Therefore it MUST be plated less than the cars tow amount. Empty or not.

Do a search, I posted about this last year with links and quotes from DVLA.

Regarding a tow dolly. They should be used for brake downs and emergency only. If you are towing something, and it has brakes, they must work. So, the brakes on the towed car must work with the towing car, or it has to have none at all!

I dont know how all of these caravan people get away with it.

jon200 - 9/2/14 at 01:43 PM

You can't drive a vehicle train higher than 3500kg CAR AND TRAILER MUST BE BELOW THIS.
You can't tow a trailer rated higher than the cars limit (empty or not) and/or rated heavier than 3500kg including cars weight. TRAILER MUST BE PLATED LESS THAN 1450kg.
You can't tow a trailer heavier than the cars weight or limit. TRAILER MUST WEIGH LESS THAN 1450kg
You can't tow an un braked trailer heavier than 750kg.

So as long as the trailer weighs less than 750 it doesn't need to be brakes and I can legally drive it with the car on as long as it all weight less than 1450kg. Or does the 750kg thing include what your towing on it? If it weighs more is needs to be brakes but also reduces the weight I am allowed on the trailer?

quote:
Originally posted by Ben_Copeland
From what I understand:

You can't drive a vehicle train higher than 3500kg
You can't tow a trailer rated higher than the cars limit (empty or not) and/or rated heavier than 3500kg including cars weight.
You can't tow a trailer heavier than the cars weight or limit.
You can't tow an un braked trailer heavier than 750kg.

Ben_Copeland - 9/2/14 at 01:51 PM

750kg inc load. So no chance with a kitcar on it, unless you strap a couple of trailer wheels and a frame on the front.

Ben_Copeland - 9/2/14 at 01:55 PM

quote:
Originally posted by bi22le


Regarding a tow dolly. They should be used for brake downs and emergency only. If you are towing something, and it has brakes, they must work. So, the brakes on the towed car must work with the towing car, or it has to have none at all!

I dont know how all of these caravan people get away with it.


They get away with it because there's such a grey area around these things, plus there's kits you can get that'll connect the brakes. I'm guessing the police don't know or can't be bothered to check what's fitted.

I've towed loads of vehicles using an aframe. I just stick the hazards on and cover the number plate up with on tow. Though I wouldn't tow my kitcar on an aframe.

ste - 9/2/14 at 03:44 PM

750kg is the max unbraked weight, but not all cars can tow 750kg unbraked as it has to do with the weight of the tow car too. It is no more than half the weight of the tow car

e.g. a fiesta cannot tow 750kg unbraked

I emailed DVLA last year and they told me the MAM isn't taken into account. It is the actual weight of the trailer as it's being towed.

Too much crap about this and it's changed again since 1997 due to it being a minefield of misinformation

daniel mason - 9/2/14 at 04:28 PM

it goes off the gvw of the zafira not the 1475 kerb
and off the mam of the trailer.
gvw of zafira will br 2t plus so you need to 'doctor the trailer plate to around 1200-1300kgs

coozer - 9/2/14 at 04:56 PM

Make sure understand the weights of the car, its towing ability, trailer capacity and total train weight, and dont forget the relevant speed limits as well. Some modern cars are not type approved for towing, eg. Mondeo ST models are not included in the normal cooking models towing approval.

As said the Police may overlook it if they are not up to speed but if you get stopped by Vosa your goosed, they know everything and have more powers than the police to force you off the road, seize your outfit and do you for anything. They will also check for road worthiness and defects as well.

DVLA website has all the limits for your B class license.

coozer - 9/2/14 at 05:03 PM

Theres a tool on DVLA that works out what yiou can do..

So, for a licence gained before Jan 2013 this is what it says:

Category B

You can tow trailers up to 750kg MAM (maximum authorised mass).

You can also tow larger trailers if:
- the combined trailer and vehicle weight isn’t more than 3,500kg
- the fully-loaded trailer weight isn’t more than the unladen vehicle weight

jossey - 9/2/14 at 05:16 PM

How much is the test to tow a bigger trailer or caravan etc....

jon200 - 9/2/14 at 08:45 PM

quote:
Originally posted by coozer
Theres a tool on DVLA that works out what yiou can do..

So, for a licence gained before Jan 2013 this is what it says:

Category B

You can tow trailers up to 750kg MAM (maximum authorised mass).

You can also tow larger trailers if:
- the combined trailer and vehicle weight isn’t more than 3,500kg
- the fully-loaded trailer weight isn’t more than the unladen vehicle weight


Is it that simple? The Zafira can tow 1500kg apparently. I've emailed Vauxhall anyway to double check

daniel mason - 9/2/14 at 09:20 PM

2090 kg to 2175kg are the gvw of the zafira depending on engine. so your trailer mam needs to be 1300kg max really

daniel mason - 9/2/14 at 09:24 PM

and only 2 models can tow 1500kg
the others are 1100 or 1200 kg so youll need to be very careful with what your towing

jon200 - 10/2/14 at 10:39 AM

Ours is the 150hp cdti so can do the 1500 according to the tinterweb (obviously the info may be incorrect)

Dan, The Zafira your looking at isnt the 2012 models is it. I think they are heavier?

How do you work out the trailer rating then? is it 80% of the cars weight or something like that? I thought it just needed to be rated less than the cars GVW?

mcerd1 - 10/2/14 at 11:27 AM

quote:
Originally posted by jon200
quote:
Originally posted by coozer
Theres a tool on DVLA that works out what yiou can do..

So, for a licence gained before Jan 2013 this is what it says:

Category B

You can tow trailers up to 750kg MAM (maximum authorised mass).

You can also tow larger trailers if:
- the combined trailer and vehicle weight isn’t more than 3,500kg
- the fully-loaded trailer weight isn’t more than the unladen vehicle weight


Is it that simple? The Zafira can tow 1500kg apparently. I've emailed Vauxhall anyway to double check

your driving licence is exactly as coozer says, but you must also satisfy the design limits of the tow car at the same time


so even if your car is rated for 1500kg - with your licence you can't tow a trailer with MAM greater than the cars kerb weight


however if your struggling to find a trailer that meets your requirement exactly you can always re-plate it with lower MAM

ste - 10/2/14 at 01:58 PM

quote:
Originally posted by coozer
Theres a tool on DVLA that works out what yiou can do..

So, for a licence gained before Jan 2013 this is what it says:

Category B

You can tow trailers up to 750kg MAM (maximum authorised mass).

You can also tow larger trailers if:
- the combined trailer and vehicle weight isn’t more than 3,500kg
- the fully-loaded trailer weight isn’t more than the unladen vehicle weight


THIS! forget about MAMs and GVWs when towing braked trailers. People are over complicating things. Just follow those rules that DVLA themselves state. Bearing in mind, it used to be really complicated and with so many queries and complaints they have clarified it to the above.

The big one to watch is still the unbraked category as this depends on the vehicle you are towing with.

A zafira can tow a 750kg unbraked trailer, but a corsa can only tow 450kg legally. Many people assume it is 750kg across the board.

Vosa will put you on a weigh bridge and weigh car and trailer separate to see if you are legal or not.

It is worth going to your local public weigh bridge and testing your own car and trailer weights so you know then, roughly what you can put on the trailer.

Matt21 - 10/2/14 at 05:16 PM

what if you make you're own trailer? then it wont be rated to anything?!

from what ive been told, you cant tow anything over 750kg, thats the trailer and load combined.

so if your kit car is 500kg, your trailer can only be 250kg, which i think would be just possible using an old caravan single axel chassis and a basic alu set of treads for the car to sit on.

better off just doing the test to tow trailers tbh....

daniel mason - 10/2/14 at 05:32 PM

^^^^^^thats completely wrong.its 750kg unbraked.
its simple;
trailer mam must be less then cars kerb and under the towing capabilities.
the gvw of car +mam of trailer MUST be under 3500kgs. even if trailers empty it goes off the mam.

for example if your cars kerb is 1700kg, gvw is 2000kgs and can tow 1600 kgs you can tow a trailer with a mam of up to 1499kgs!
2000kgs gvw + 1499kgs mam is 3499kg

and you can easily get a small trailer with a kit on it to around 1000kgs without much problem.

















^

[Edited on 10/2/14 by daniel mason]

mcerd1 - 11/2/14 at 08:16 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Matt21
what if you make you're own trailer? then it wont be rated to anything?!


wrong - its rated to the capacity of the components its made from (assuming the chassis / bed is strong enough)

I know that sounds really vague and hard to prove at the side of the road, but I guess thats why they are trying to do IVA's for trailers....

jon200 - 11/2/14 at 03:36 PM

It's all the confusion from before that had me worried. Now it seems too simple to be right! Thanks for clearing it up for me guys. I'm still thinking making the car into a trailer is a possibility! Depends on the kitcar weight though as it all needs to be below 750 kg total.

ste - 11/2/14 at 05:27 PM

quote:
Originally posted by daniel mason
^^^^^^thats completely wrong.its 750kg unbraked.
its simple;
trailer mam must be less then cars kerb and under the towing capabilities.
the gvw of car +mam of trailer MUST be under 3500kgs. even if trailers empty it goes off the mam.

for example if your cars kerb is 1700kg, gvw is 2000kgs and can tow 1600 kgs you can tow a trailer with a mam of up to 1499kgs!
2000kgs gvw + 1499kgs mam is 3499kg

and you can easily get a small trailer with a kit on it to around 1000kgs without much problem.
[Edited on 10/2/14 by daniel mason]


That is also wrong. MAM doesn't mean jack now. It's the actual weight of the trailer

Too many peple go off rumours rather than looking at DVLA website like coozer did and seeing how simple it really is.

Also, legally you can't make your own trailer anymore and just put it on the road as ALL trailers need to be type approved or IVAd. If you go to IVA without plates you will fail. You will also need to show proof it's capable of that weight

daniel mason - 11/2/14 at 05:42 PM

yes but the weight has to be under the mam! eg a trailer with a mam of 1500kgs cant carry a 2000kg car so the mam is the best way to describe the scenario to the original poster
dont pull more weight than the car is capable of
dont pull 2000kgs on a trailer with a 1500kg mam
dont pull over 3500kgs total train weight

ste - 11/2/14 at 06:12 PM

The best way to describe it is like coozer said, which is what dvla say. Not what people guess at. so he can still tow a braked trailer with a mam of whatever he wants as long as it weighs less than the car on the day.