Can I get a new plate with an old engine?
Piooly - 18/1/15 at 10:12 PM
So I am nearly at the end of my build. I want to register the car if possible with a new number plate, so a 2015 plate. I have not used a donner car.
Everything on the car is new except the engine which has been completely stripped and enhanced and rebuilt. The engine I think is a 1986 engine.
Question is can I get a new plate for this?
do I need a Cat for a new plate?
And can my emissions be based on the original 1986 engine and not modern regs.
Thanks.
theduck - 18/1/15 at 11:10 PM
IVA will do emissions based on engine age, so no need for cat.
You can get a new registration with all new parts and one refurbished to as new condition part, in this case the engine. So as long as you can prove
everything's new, you should get a new plate.
chrisj - 19/1/15 at 06:20 PM
The block of my engine was 1978 (I had to prove it with a serial number) and show receipts of the new or refurbished parts. I got the new plate and i
also merely have to comply with a visual emmissions test due to the age of the engine.
Good luck.
Slimy38 - 19/1/15 at 06:26 PM
quote:
Originally posted by chrisj
The block of my engine was 1978 (I had to prove it with a serial number) and show receipts of the new or refurbished parts. I got the new plate and i
also merely have to comply with a visual emmissions test due to the age of the engine.
Good luck.
Yep, I get the impression paperwork is the key. Anyone could clean up an engine and try and pass it off as refurbished, but get the receipts together
and you have a much better case.
By the way, I'm guessing you already know this but the engine and gearbox are generally considered two separate things, so if you refurb the
engine your gearbox will have to be new.
Piooly - 19/1/15 at 10:47 PM
Just out of interest has anyone ever had their car checked over or paperwork checked prior to the DVLA issuing a number plate?
From what I know the IVA test only checks for roadworthness and emissions? Unless I have got that wrong...?
loggyboy - 19/1/15 at 10:50 PM
Theres 2 processes -
VOSA handles the IVA -0 checking roadworthyness, but also sets emmisions levels based on engine age (they will require proof (not from manufacturer,
V5 from donor etc) Then once you have a IVA certificate, the DVLA handles the registration, and its them thats needs the reciepts, and its also good
to have build file of photos etc to show YOU built it as the process is different for professional builders.
Piooly - 19/1/15 at 11:07 PM
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
Theres 2 processes -
VOSA handles the IVA -0 checking roadworthyness, but also sets emmisions levels based on engine age (they will require proof (not from manufacturer,
V5 from donor etc) Then once you have a IVA certificate, the DVLA handles the registration, and its them thats needs the reciepts, and its also good
to have build file of photos etc to show YOU built it as the process is different for professional builders.
I have a big folder of receipts and build photos of everything so should be ok for that. I don't have a v5 as I didn't use a donor. Will I
need to get proof of engine age via its engine number if possible.....?
loggyboy - 20/1/15 at 12:35 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Piooly
I have a big folder of receipts and build photos of everything so should be ok for that. I don't have a v5 as I didn't use a donor. Will I
need to get proof of engine age via its engine number if possible.....?
I suspect it will need to come from the manufacturer. What engine?
Slimy38 - 20/1/15 at 08:54 AM
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
quote:
Originally posted by Piooly
I have a big folder of receipts and build photos of everything so should be ok for that. I don't have a v5 as I didn't use a donor. Will I
need to get proof of engine age via its engine number if possible.....?
I suspect it will need to come from the manufacturer. What engine?
I thought it had to come from the manufacturer regardless, they don't accept the V5 as proof of engine age? There's nothing on the V5 to say
the engine is the original one.
Piooly - 20/1/15 at 09:40 AM
engine is a rover v8, how am I going to manage that one as they no longer exist...
Any ideas...?
loggyboy - 20/1/15 at 10:03 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Slimy38
I thought it had to come from the manufacturer regardless, they don't accept the V5 as proof of engine age? There's nothing on the V5 to say
the engine is the original one.
As long as there are no notes to say the engine has been changed and the numbers on the engine match the V5 then generally its ok, the note reads:
Evidence of the date of manufacture of the engine will be required at the time of inspection to determine the emissions limits for the vehicle. The
donor vehicle registration document (V5) may be acceptable evidence, where it indicates the engine to be the original engine fitted to the donor
vehicle.
Piooly - 20/1/15 at 10:58 AM
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
quote:
Originally posted by Slimy38
I thought it had to come from the manufacturer regardless, they don't accept the V5 as proof of engine age? There's nothing on the V5 to say
the engine is the original one.
As long as there are no notes to say the engine has been changed and the numbers on the engine match the V5 then generally its ok, the note reads:
Evidence of the date of manufacture of the engine will be required at the time of inspection to determine the emissions limits for the vehicle. The
donor vehicle registration document (V5) may be acceptable evidence, where it indicates the engine to be the original engine fitted to the donor
vehicle.
I dont have a V5 document though for where the engine came from.... so dont have any paperwork unless I create some..
theduck - 20/1/15 at 11:08 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Piooly
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
Theres 2 processes -
VOSA handles the IVA -0 checking roadworthyness, but also sets emmisions levels based on engine age (they will require proof (not from manufacturer,
V5 from donor etc) Then once you have a IVA certificate, the DVLA handles the registration, and its them thats needs the reciepts, and its also good
to have build file of photos etc to show YOU built it as the process is different for professional builders.
I have a big folder of receipts and build photos of everything so should be ok for that. I don't have a v5 as I didn't use a donor. Will I
need to get proof of engine age via its engine number if possible.....?
Proof of age for the engine can be done by engine number. For example, most inspectors accept the Burton catalog guide for engine age on ford
engines.
davidimurray - 20/1/15 at 12:26 PM
Give your IVA inspector a ring and ask him how he prefers to have the proof of engine. I turned up for mine with a letter from ford and he said I
didn't need to bother as he would have accepted the Burtons catalogue.
They might accept the equivalent from Rimmers http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/content--name-Rover-V8-Engine-Numbers
Piooly - 20/1/15 at 02:16 PM
ok so I have had a look at rimmer etc and my engine is a 4.6 rover v8, said to be manufactured between 1994 - 2002.
The engine bear no resemblence to the original in terms of its spec, its only the actual block thats original, crank, pistons, heads, rockets, valves
are all new and highly modified. I am using using carbs and not EFI.
If I am trying to go for a new plate, from what I can find out, My car would need to conform to BET emission rules of 0.2%CO
There is no way this engine is going to meet that.
Basically am I stuffed? or will I have to register the car as a Q plate as emmissions wont matter then? I really dont want a Q plate but sounds like
I might have to. A real shame considering the whole car uses new parts!!! 
(
Yes I suppose one could create some paperwork to say the engine is older but I imagine the testers have seen this time and again and already have a
list of rover v8 engine numbers to say otherwise....????????????
Piooly - 20/1/15 at 02:30 PM
Also out of interest ofcourse, what does the IVA do if your engine number is missing so you cant prove what age it is? I have a receipt of purchase
but that does not mention engine numbers etc...
gremlin1234 - 20/1/15 at 07:33 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Piooly
Also out of interest ofcourse, what does the IVA do if your engine number is missing so you cant prove what age it is? I have a receipt of purchase
but that does not mention engine numbers etc...
If the “effective date” cannot be determined, it must be assumed to be on or after 1 August
1997.
loggyboy - 20/1/15 at 07:48 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Piooly
Basically am I stuffed? or will I have to register the car as a Q plate as emmissions wont matter then? I really dont want a Q plate but sounds like
I might have to. A real shame considering the whole car uses new parts!!! (
IIRC the IVA won't know if it's a Q so they won't care, they will want it to pass based on age only. Once its registered you can get a
Q and go with visible smoke for MOT.
gremlin1234 - 20/1/15 at 07:55 PM
quote:
Originally posted by PioolyBasically am I stuffed? or will I have to register the car as a Q plate as emmissions wont matter then? I
really dont want a Q plate but sounds like I might have to. A real shame considering the whole car uses new parts!!! (
even if going for a
Q plate, you have to pass emissions at iva. - but not at forthcoming MOT's
I think there are a couple of options,
if you can <prove> the engine was built before end '95 (and its an “Amateur Built” vehicle) then you get a 3.5% co limit and hc 1200
seconadlly, not sure this is viable thou... if you can't prove the engine is that old, then get a cheep old rv8 engine , pass the iva, then
change it after.
edit:
when I say <prove> I mean take the engine no, and compare it to production records. may have to ask Gaydon for help
[Edited on 20/1/15 by gremlin1234]