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Pre IVA "Private land testing"
Patten - 16/12/15 at 09:29 AM

Morning all,

My father and I have just finished building our Fisher Fury R1

We are looking for a place where we can give it the final shake down Pre IVA, at present I don't think the brakes are bedded in enough to pass an IVA it would be nice to go through all of the gears etc

Are there any places in the South East that you can hire for this sort of thing? Not looking to do a track day

Many thanks
Chris

loggyboy - 16/12/15 at 09:58 AM

Are you rich? Most test facilities (ie race tracks, TRL Crowthorne, most army land) will charge large figures.
Just go for a spirited drive on the way to the test centre, theres no specific rule to say you cant take an convoluted route to the centre, or book a centre thats your closest. Providing pads and discs are new the surfaces should be mated well and should perform fine for a test. You don't need super braking levels to pass.

nick205 - 16/12/15 at 10:02 AM

For my SVA I arrived in Southampton test centre with new discs and pads/drums/shoes - passed the brake test fine.

Ben_Copeland - 16/12/15 at 10:03 AM

Book a pre mot check, drive there, drive back. But don't get a full MOT as you may end up having to do one every year after that (instead of the 3 years you get with a new car)

Patten - 16/12/15 at 10:10 AM

I wish..

Yeah I think the going rate at Bicester Heritage is £100per hour..

We took the car for an MOT just to get an idea and the brakes and they didn't "feel" very strong


Fronts:
Willwood Powerlites
Willwood smart pads (road going type)
OEM Escort discs

Rear:
Sierra Calipers
OEM disc and pads

russbost - 16/12/15 at 10:26 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Ben_Copeland
Book a pre mot check, drive there, drive back. But don't get a full MOT as you may end up having to do one every year after that (instead of the 3 years you get with a new car)


Unless something dramatic has changed then surely that would be illegal? According to the plod it is illegal to drive a car on the UK roads without no. plates - I was stopped twice (only times I've ever been stopped with a Furore by the plod!) on different occasions when driving cars to & from DVLA with no plates prior to registration when you used to have to do the check with them after IVA, on both occasions they backed off when I showed them the letter from DVLA saying "you can drive to & from the test station" - however TTBOMK there is no such agreement with driving to/from MoT station, particularly as it wouldn't be for a pre-booked test. You can insure on the chassis no. (tho' many insurers will only give a month or 6 weeks cover like that), but you'd still be illegal without plates

sdh2903 - 16/12/15 at 10:30 AM

Those wilwood smart pads will never feel great. They are terrible pads. At the first opportunity I'd swap them for some mintex 1144 or ferodo ds2500 pads. You will notice a big difference.

russbost - 16/12/15 at 10:31 AM

"We took the car for an MOT just to get an idea and the brakes and they didn't "feel" very strong"

I'm assuming your system is unservoed? Are you making the comparison against the brakes on a typical tin top? If so then they will feel completely different, first impression is usually "whoa! I've got no brakes!" as you will need much firmer pedal pressure to produce the same sort of braking you're used to with a servo.

I've taken cars for customers in for IVA with discs that I would regard as fit for the bin & yet, even with new, unbedded pads on the old discs, they've still passed. When you took the car to the test station did they run it thro' the brake rollers? &, if so, what was their verdict?

johnH20 - 16/12/15 at 10:39 AM

I took my car for an Activity Day at North Weald. Cost £50 but well worth it to sort brake balance and bedding issues. Check out www.carlimits.com.

Doctor Derek Doctors - 16/12/15 at 10:45 AM

Do you know anyone with a big carpark? The company I worked for at the time of completing my build let me use the empty carpark at the weekend to do a shakedown drive. It was a private car park with security with no public entry so nice and safe.

Might be worth an ask of anyone you know with an office/factory car park.

DJT - 16/12/15 at 11:41 AM

My new brakes got through the IVA fine. Tester did have to do a couple of slow laps around the site with the brakes on though to get them bedded in. Prior to that it had only been trailered for an MoT and done a couple of stops on the rollers.

Brands Hatch let you do the £25/30 taster sessions, but might be a bit of a big leap for a brand new build.

Patten - 16/12/15 at 11:45 AM

quote:
Originally posted by russbost
"We took the car for an MOT just to get an idea and the brakes and they didn't "feel" very strong"

I'm assuming your system is unservoed? Are you making the comparison against the brakes on a typical tin top? If so then they will feel completely different, first impression is usually "whoa! I've got no brakes!" as you will need much firmer pedal pressure to produce the same sort of braking you're used to with a servo.

I've taken cars for customers in for IVA with discs that I would regard as fit for the bin & yet, even with new, unbedded pads on the old discs, they've still passed. When you took the car to the test station did they run it thro' the brake rollers? &, if so, what was their verdict?


Yep unservoed. Yes we took it to a friend who runs an MOT garage and they ran it on the brake rollers. I think the efficiency was below the recommended levels for the weight of the vehicle.

Thank you all for the suggestions

Ben_Copeland - 16/12/15 at 11:48 AM

If its booked into an MOT and insured then its fine. You can drive to and from MOT with no TAX/PLATES just insurance is the key.

That's from my MOT tester friend so assume he would know.

[Edited on 16/12/15 by Ben_Copeland]

mackei23b - 16/12/15 at 11:49 AM

Both times I've bedded my brakes while on the way to the SVA or IVA test, both times passed first time.

Last year I got pulled over by the Police on the way back from the IVA as I had no plates, I showed the police my IVA booking, certificate as it passed and my insurance against the chassis number.

He kindly let me on his way and radioed his colleagues in the area to let them know I was legitimate so I didn't get pulled over again.

Cheers

Ian

pewe - 16/12/15 at 12:27 PM

Don't know what brake set-up you're using but I had similar problems with the F27 when I built it.
In my ignorance I'd put the larger of the two master cylinders to the fronts (bigger's got to be better) - passed SVA but it was only on our first trackday and we'd cooked the rears I realised it should have been the smaller M/c operating the fronts (smaller bore = higher pressure)
Worth checking?
Cheers, Pewe10

v8kid - 16/12/15 at 12:49 PM

quote:
Originally posted by pewe
In my ignorance I'd put the larger of the two master cylinders to the fronts (bigger's got to be better) - passed SVA but it was only on our first trackday and we'd cooked the rears I realised it should have been the smaller M/c operating the fronts (smaller bore = higher pressure)
Cheers, Pewe10


I did exactly the same at my SVA. It took a bit of head scratching to work out what was wrong but easily fixed

Cheers!

russbost - 16/12/15 at 01:13 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Ben_Copeland
If its booked into an MOT and insured then its fine. You can drive to and from MOT with no TAX/PLATES just insurance is the key.

That's from my MOT tester friend so assume he would know.

[Edited on 16/12/15 by Ben_Copeland]


If you had a vehicle such as an import I seem to remember that used to be the case when I was a MoT tester myself, but that was in the days when an imported vehicle was taken for an MoT test, had a sticker put over the speedo to convert from km to mph & the local road tax office would then give you a reg. no. It was also the same for kitcars as that was how they were registered prior to SVA/IVA, however, TTBOMK now it would be illegal as the vehicle has no I.D. on the UK roads. It's possible it just might be ok if going for a pre-booked MoT test, but then that defeats the point as once in the system for MoT it would then require an MoT after the first year, rather than 3 years.

So far as I am aware the only way you can legally drive the car on the public road is to & from the IVA test, & I would suggest that if the route was exceedingly extended, then that would probably be deemed illegal too!

I don't want you to think I'm being picky here Ben, just bothered that someone could take the advice & then get nicked! If anyone can confirm the definitive current answer would be good!

adithorp - 16/12/15 at 01:29 PM

You can drive "to/from a legally required (pre-booked) test" As an unregistered kit doesn't "legally require" an MOT you are on thin ice driving to one should you get stopped.

OP there is (and I'm amazed nobody else spotted it) a glaring error in your original post... kit cars are NEVER "finished"

CosKev3 - 16/12/15 at 03:48 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Patten
I wish..

Yeah I think the going rate at Bicester Heritage is £100per hour..

We took the car for an MOT just to get an idea and the brakes and they didn't "feel" very strong


Fronts:
Willwood Powerlites
Willwood smart pads (road going type)
OEM Escort discs

Rear:
Sierra Calipers
OEM disc and pads


What have you used to gain brake bias?

As above with pedal feel,no servo makes the brake pedal really hard to press with not much initial bite compared to a servo assisted car

johnH20 - 16/12/15 at 05:51 PM

A brake system needs to be designed, just putting a best guess set of components together is unlikely to provide the best result. I am not an expert but I did my research to find out - the Brake Handbook by Fred Puhn is a good start if you can find a copy, but there are other sources. In summary it is a question of getting the mechanical and hydraulic ratios optimised. A big master cylinder and small pedal ratio will give you high efforts and small pedal movement. The reverse applies. Getting the balance between these two is the trick. Might be worth checking what other Fury users do. Good luck.

bi22le - 16/12/15 at 07:56 PM

If i was in your boat i would go to brands, take it off the trailer and drive it round all of the roads within the grounds. Plenty of space there and if anyone asks, tell them that you are checking the car over before going back on track.

Or

I would do a novice half day. You can poodle round with a novice square on the back and do as you feel fit at a faster pace.

ianhurley20 - 17/12/15 at 10:23 AM

I am going to try a test drive before IVA to check speedo and brakes and self centering. I've found an old wartime airfield I can get access to, perhaps there is a similar one near the op? Cost = zero.

ian locostzx9rc2 - 17/12/15 at 11:17 AM

Hi Chris I'm assuming your close to Bicester what about asking someone at upper heyford ?

ian locostzx9rc2 - 17/12/15 at 11:17 AM

hi Chris good luck with the car I live in Bicester if your local ?

[Edited on 17/12/15 by ian locostzx9rc2]

Patten - 18/12/15 at 11:15 AM

Thanks for all the reply's

I am based down in Maidstone, Kent. So Bicester would have been a bit of a trek for us anyway

The Brands idea sounds good to me although I can't imagine they would appreciate somebody tearing up and down just outside of the track.

Even though the car has been finished off to what I believe is a good standard, the thought of going to an IVA without actually testing the car anywhere just seems strange.

[Edited on 18/12/15 by Patten]

adampage - 21/12/21 at 03:17 PM

Hey all

I'm in Staffordshire and similar to the OP here, looking for somewhere to do a gentle shakedown of nearly finished car.
No racing or high speed, just first run around to bed in brakes and check geometry & 'feel'.

Unfortunately I live on a residential street and don't have an office/factory with car park to use.

Any ideas? There's a couple of old airfields nearby which aren't used for much, I could try them but no idea how to find the owner/operator.

If there's somewhere you wouldn't want to publicise for fear of crowds, please do drop me a u2u, some beer tokens available for kind helper!

Thanks
Ad

CosKev3 - 21/12/21 at 06:23 PM

quote:
Originally posted by adampage
Hey all

I'm in Staffordshire and similar to the OP here, looking for somewhere to do a gentle shakedown of nearly finished car.
No racing or high speed, just first run around to bed in brakes and check geometry & 'feel'.

Unfortunately I live on a residential street and don't have an office/factory with car park to use.

Any ideas? There's a couple of old airfields nearby which aren't used for much, I could try them but no idea how to find the owner/operator.

If there's somewhere you wouldn't want to publicise for fear of crowds, please do drop me a u2u, some beer tokens available for kind helper!

Thanks
Ad


Curborough isn't far from you,I would ask them what they've got coming up

loggyboy - 22/12/21 at 12:12 AM

Id offer the same advice as before. Take long route to the test centre
Arguably any cost to try and shake down the car that are more than the £90 retest fee are effectively a waste.
You could also just do a cheap winter track day, take plenty of tools and if your semi confident in your build you will probably enjoy the track experience.

JimSpencer - 22/12/21 at 08:17 AM

quote:
Originally posted by adampage
Hey all

I'm in Staffordshire and similar to the OP here, looking for somewhere to do a gentle shakedown of nearly finished car.
No racing or high speed, just first run around to bed in brakes and check geometry & 'feel'.

Unfortunately I live on a residential street and don't have an office/factory with car park to use.

Any ideas? There's a couple of old airfields nearby which aren't used for much, I could try them but no idea how to find the owner/operator.

If there's somewhere you wouldn't want to publicise for fear of crowds, please do drop me a u2u, some beer tokens available for kind helper!

Thanks
Ad


Hi, Stafford driving centre (.co.uk) hires out the track for not much per hour

adampage - 22/12/21 at 10:03 AM

Oh yeah - Curborough i'd forgotten about, i'll drop them a note.

I did remember the Stafford Driving Centre last night actually, they came back quickly & said £200/hr, which might be a bit much for what we need (and per the other reply about the cost being more than a £90 retest.....)

Thanks
Ad

BenB - 22/12/21 at 10:17 AM

I went into my SVA assuming it would fail and it would give me a list of things to sort and the drive there and back would help sort the brakes etc out. I wasn't disappointed- fails list went onto a second page!!!

JimSpencer - 22/12/21 at 12:48 PM

quote:
Originally posted by adampage
Oh yeah - Curborough i'd forgotten about, i'll drop them a note.

I did remember the Stafford Driving Centre last night actually, they came back quickly & said £200/hr, which might be a bit much for what we need (and per the other reply about the cost being more than a £90 retest.....)

Thanks
Ad


By Eck that's gone up a chunk.. think it used to be £60.. the other circuit I've used is Three Sisters at Wigan, though it's a bit of a hike up the motorway, their 'early bird' - 1st thing in the morning is (IIRC) £100 an hour - exclusive use.

Re Curborough, might be worth joining the Shenstone car club, it's only about £30 and they have regular sessions for members, or go on 'uphillracers' and see if anybody has any days booked that you can join in?

I did run the car in my avatar round Stoke City FC car park once while shaking it down.. it's huge.. quickly had security over though, but after a few pics they were quite happy and left us to it

adampage - 22/12/21 at 05:29 PM

Now that would be a cool venue, but it's probably a bit of a trek for such a small trip really (and the risk of getting carried away and it stops being a shakedown, and increases the risk of blowing it up!)

Thanks
Ad