LocostBuilders - powered by XMB

silly mistake :-(

craigdiver - 28/10/18 at 11:23 AM

I hate making mistakes but have found that my upper anchorages are only 400mm above the reference point not 450mm as required by IVA section 31, requirement 16. Going to have to rework my roll hoop and have it powder coated again. Silly mistake - annoyed at myself :-(

Daf - 28/10/18 at 11:41 AM

Have you got any scope to lower the seat at all?

craigdiver - 28/10/18 at 11:48 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Daf
Have you got any scope to lower the seat at all?

did look at that but seat is only 50mm off the floor (25mm runners + 25mm subframe).

shouldn’t be too big a job to rework rear hoop, just a pain having to pay to get it powder coated again - entirely my fault. Rear hoop was fabricated while car was in bits

mccsp - 28/10/18 at 12:11 PM

On the positive side, at least it bolts in and out!

craigdiver - 28/10/18 at 12:16 PM

quote:
Originally posted by mccsp
On the positive side, at least it bolts in and out!

I think ill have to knock up a brace which will be exact size of mounting holes as likely once the welds are ground down and rewelded in position it could open or close the roll hoop spacing.

Toys2 - 28/10/18 at 02:24 PM

Could you fit inserts to have the eyelets vertical so they are at the top of the tube?
In fact I've never seen them as you currently have them, is that allowed anyway?

craigdiver - 28/10/18 at 02:45 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Toys2
Could you fit inserts to have the eyelets vertical so they are at the top of the tube?
In fact I've never seen them as you currently have them, is that allowed anyway?

Eye bolts should never have the loading at over 45 degrees from centre, this will cause excessive shear forces on the eye, I would be surprised if having the load at 90 degrees (shearing load) would be allowed. However, in saying that I suspect the forces created, even in an impact, are a fraction of the rated loading of the shouldered eyebolt.

sdh2903 - 28/10/18 at 03:17 PM

Every westfield has them vertically.

craigdiver - 28/10/18 at 04:37 PM

quote:
Originally posted by sdh2903
Every westfield has them vertically.

cars must be different from the real world, you wouldn’t be allowed to lift a load using eye bolts at that angle due to the shear forces. Would be interested to hear from an opinion from an automotive engineer.

steve m - 28/10/18 at 05:25 PM

Think I would be moving the eye bolt up, and the seat down first, and take it for the test as it is,
If it fails, do something about it, if it pass's then jobs a goodun

As there are only a very very few who have passed first time

steve

sdh2903 - 28/10/18 at 05:29 PM

In fact every kit car ive seen has them vertically.

They are well over engineered any way. Even in a 10g accident they are only going to have to restrain what say a ton of force ? and there's 4 per person.

How have you mounted your lower eye bolts through the floor vertically to keep them in the correct plane?

craigdiver - 28/10/18 at 05:30 PM

quote:
Originally posted by steve m
Think I would be moving the eye bolt up, and the seat down first, and take it for the test as it is,
If it fails, do something about it, if it pass's then jobs a goodun

As there are only a very very few who have passed first time

steve

I like your thinking, seats cannot be lowered, any ideas how to raise the eyebolt 50mm - I could bolt a very sturdy bracket to the existing eyebolt bush tube and bolt the eyebolt to the top of the bracket? anybody seen anything like this?

craigdiver - 28/10/18 at 05:38 PM

quote:
Originally posted by sdh2903
In fact every kit car ive seen has them vertically.

They are well over engineered any way. Even in a 10g accident they are only going to have to restrain what say a ton of force ? and there's 4 per person.

How have you mounted your lower eye bolts through the floor vertically to keep them in the correct plane?

very good point, my lower mounts are loading up at 90 degrees as the upper ones would be if they were vertical

Toys2 - 28/10/18 at 06:01 PM

So would this be an option?

Not my photo and obviously your fixings would be on top of the bar

Description

craigdiver - 28/10/18 at 06:14 PM

maybe some extension pieces like this, would only need to be 50mm tall

Kevin - 28/10/18 at 06:51 PM

My car failed first time with seats that look like yours. The reason was that the back of the seat was not high enough. I know that the head rest will raise but was told that you could only have up to 25mm gap between the top of the seat and the bottom of the head rest. Please double check this as I was nervous on the day and might have got this wrong.

craigdiver - 28/10/18 at 07:01 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Kevin
My car failed first time with seats that look like yours. The reason was that the back of the seat was not high enough. I know that the head rest will raise but was told that you could only have up to 25mm gap between the top of the seat and the bottom of the head rest. Please double check this as I was nervous on the day and might have got this wrong.

this is getting worse by the minute, going to raise the bar with the seatbelt anchorages 100mm and take my chance with the seats :-(

jps - 28/10/18 at 07:22 PM

quote:
Originally posted by craigdiver

quote:
Originally posted by mccsp
On the positive side, at least it bolts in and out!

I think ill have to knock up a brace which will be exact size of mounting holes as likely once the welds are ground down and rewelded in position it could open or close the roll hoop spacing.

Weld in the new one before you cut out the old one?

craigdiver - 28/10/18 at 07:25 PM

quote:
Originally posted by jps

quote:
Originally posted by craigdiver

quote:
Originally posted by mccsp
On the positive side, at least it bolts in and out!

I think ill have to knock up a brace which will be exact size of mounting holes as likely once the welds are ground down and rewelded in position it could open or close the roll hoop spacing.

Weld in the new one before you cut out the old one?

It will be the same one, just moved, was costly to get the 7/16” threaded bushes made in a custom length. Spoken to my mate (professional welder who originally welded it up and does not see a problem grinding down the welds and re-welding 100mm higher)

melly-g - 28/10/18 at 08:04 PM

If they're baby cub seats take the base pad off.
Would that make a difference? Just put a pad on the base instead.
I think I only had a piece of carpet on mine for the test!

craigdiver - 28/10/18 at 08:08 PM

quote:
Originally posted by melly-g
If they're baby cub seats take the base pad off.
Would that make a difference? Just put a pad on the base instead.
I think I only had a piece of carpet on mine for the test!

Genius idea, that would fix it, the thick (6”+) seat pad does move and appears to be fixed in be material at the front but would be worth cutting it to remove it and replace with thin foam pad, this would sort anchorages height and possible seat back height.

gremlin1234 - 28/10/18 at 08:30 PM

quote:
seat pad / seat base

technical term is seat squab, ( but don't confuse it with young pigeons! )

craigdiver - 28/10/18 at 08:32 PM

quote:
Originally posted by gremlin1234

quote:
seat pad / seat base

technical term is seat squab, ( but don't confuse it with young pigeons! )

haha, that made me laugh :-)

pmc_3 - 28/10/18 at 09:16 PM

Could you make up some spacers to fit under the roll bar mounts and raise the roll bar instead of moving the harness fixings?

craigdiver - 28/10/18 at 09:19 PM

quote:
Originally posted by pmc_3
Could you make up some spacers to fit under the roll bar mounts and raise the roll bar instead of moving the harness fixings?

going to remove the seat squabs, they are at least 6” thick so will also fix any seatback not being tall enough issues, but thank you for the suggestion

coyoteboy - 28/10/18 at 09:39 PM

quote:
Originally posted by sdh2903
Every westfield has them vertically.

Bloody awful design work then. I mean it might work in that orientation, but it's not as designed and why would you?`

[Edited on 29/10/18 by coyoteboy]

JAG - 29/10/18 at 08:48 AM

How about this idea....

seat belt mod' finished/fitted

sdh2903 - 29/10/18 at 11:58 AM

quote:
Originally posted by JAG
How about this idea....

seat belt mod' finished/fitted

That would fail IVA in my opinion. You would have to show the bracket is designed to take all the load In an impact. There have been several instances where belts have had to go up to fit through harness slots in seats that have failed unless you can prove the seats are homogelated and structurally tested.

loggyboy - 29/10/18 at 01:52 PM

quote:
Originally posted by sdh2903

quote:
Originally posted by JAG
How about this idea....

seat belt mod' finished/fitted

That would fail IVA in my opinion. You would have to show the bracket is designed to take all the load In an impact. There have been several instances where belts have had to go up to fit through harness slots in seats that have failed unless you can prove the seats are homogelated and structurally tested.

With the reinforcement shown I would say its been designed exactly for that purpose. If you open the image history it passed SVA (i dont believe that requirement changed between sva/iva.)

[Edited on 29-10-18 by loggyboy]

craigdiver - 29/10/18 at 03:47 PM

quote:
Originally posted by melly-g
If they're baby cub seats take the base pad off.
Would that make a difference? Just put a pad on the base instead.
I think I only had a piece of carpet on mine for the test!

melly-g I owe you several pints. Seat squab removed to find a 5mm foam pad already covering the sprung base. Had a seat as is and actually feels a better sitting position. With 5mm foam pad I am now well over the regulation 450mm and now measure 490mm! At least ill be able to knock something up around an inch thick that will look like it is meant to be there! Is the passenger seat tested?

Angel Acevedo - 29/10/18 at 03:50 PM

quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy

quote:
Originally posted by sdh2903
Every westfield has them vertically.

Bloody awful design work then. I mean it might work in that orientation, but it's not as designed and why would you?`

[Edited on 29/10/18 by coyoteboy]

If you get in a crash where the eyebolt breaks, the flesh will be no loger attached to your bones.

Irony - 29/10/18 at 05:27 PM

Mine passed like this because the seat belt connectors were to small for the big bolt that fits into the roll cage. I could either drill them out leaving very little metal or this solution. IVA inspector never commented.

I would just get some extension pieces that fit into the existing holes. Simple problem requiring a simple solution.

craigdiver - 29/10/18 at 05:42 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Irony

Mine passed like this because the seat belt connectors were to small for the big bolt that fits into the roll cage. I could either drill them out leaving very little metal or this solution. IVA inspector never commented.

I would just get some extension pieces that fit into the existing holes. Simple problem requiring a simple solution.

Problem is now solved but your solution wouldn’t have worked for me as I needed to move my eye bolts vertically up and any extension used would need to be very well engineered to take high lateral load. You will see from the original photo, as I was using eye bolts, they were oriented horizontally (correctly) with the loading pulling on the threads rather than trying to shear the head off (as westfield apparently do!)