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Modify from original SVA/IVA
Chaz - 10/5/20 at 06:59 AM

Hi all, how far can you modify your car after registration?

I have an MK indy and wondering if you change the engine do you need to re register/re-IVA etc what are the rules? I looked on the gov website but not sure I'm in the right place.

I'm sure this has been asked before but I've been out of the game for a while and now I'm back - thank you lockdown!

kingster996 - 10/5/20 at 07:18 AM

Yep. I changed mine. Plenty of others have too.

Not sure what happens with emissions though as I am lucky enough to have a Q plate so they don’t come into the equation at mot time.

rusty nuts - 10/5/20 at 07:26 AM

Modify after SVA/IVA? Shock horror!

peter030371 - 10/5/20 at 08:30 AM

No need for a re-test but you will need to inform DVLA of the new engine number and capacity. If the change in capacity changes the tax group they will probably want to see some evidence such us engine receipt and garage report but the are not difficult to sort out.

As already said if a Q plate emissions are no problem but if your car is non-Q then the emissions will be tested as per the levels you are already tested to at the MOT.

adithorp - 10/5/20 at 09:21 AM

As said by others, engine change just need reporting to DVLA. If the capacity changes then the tax might (above below 1500cc) and they might ask for an engineer's report to confirm the change. Emmision limits stay at whatever they were at IVA.

As for any other changes, knock yourself out. Theoretically, any significant change to chassis design would need a new IVA but nothing else. In practice, seeing as there's no record of the design at IVA who's to know what's changed?

snapper - 10/5/20 at 09:59 AM

SVA/IVA Sets the emissions for the car, if you change engine to a newer model the emissions requirement of the vehicle remains as tested. The emissions requirements are usually printed on the front page of the V5 in the case of a non Q registration. Q registration is effectively a smoke test.

Chaz - 10/5/20 at 12:39 PM

Thanks all...

So i currently have a silvertop zetec 1800 1994, i think this was before some emissions restriction - my brain forgot to remember for me!

Hyperthetically if i were to change for a bigger engine but same emissions i would be ok??

What about if I kept the zetec and modified for s/charge or turbo? Same cc but different emissions.

adithorp - 10/5/20 at 12:53 PM

Unless you put a sub 1500cc (which would reduce the tax) nothing would change other than the size and engine number on the v5.

obfripper - 10/5/20 at 02:26 PM

They have fixed the MOT manuals so if your V5 doesn't have the limits the correct limit can still be applied.

From the manual:

"Kit cars
Kit cars and amateur-built vehicles first used on or after 1 August 1998 must have either Single Vehicle Approval (SVA) or Individual Vehicle Approval (IVA).

You must test kit cars or amateur built vehicles to the limits in the vehicle’s registration document (V5c). If the V5c does not show any limits, you must test it to the limits of the engine fitted at the time of the SVA or IVA test."

If you're on a q plate, the emissions limits do not apply even if recorded on the V5.


Dave

mikeb - 12/5/20 at 11:41 AM

Hi all, are we still confident on the Q plate emissions? it seems they changed the MOT manual to take that into account. Or is it old school testers just take a look at a Q and know what to do?

obfripper - 12/5/20 at 12:00 PM

quote:
Originally posted by mikeb
Hi all, are we still confident on the Q plate emissions? it seems they changed the MOT manual to take that into account. Or is it old school testers just take a look at a Q and know what to do?


It's still in the manual, same as has been for years.

"For emissions purposes only you should treat the following as first used before 1 August 1975:

kit cars and amateur-built vehicles first used before 1 August 1998
Wankel rotary-engined vehicles first used before 1 August 1987
Q plated vehicles"


Dave

StrikerChris - 12/5/20 at 09:42 PM

Not meaning to hijack, but would the same apply for a tin top? Ie bolting a 98 engine in an 85 car,both 2.0l. will this affect mot emmisions?

Chris

obfripper - 12/5/20 at 09:46 PM

Pre Sept 2002 vehicle is tested to fitted engine age, post Sept 2002 vehicle emissions limits are to date of first registration.

Dave

[Edited on 12/5/20 by obfripper]

FEZ1025 - 9/6/20 at 09:05 PM

quote:
Originally posted by mikeb
Hi all, are we still confident on the Q plate emissions? it seems they changed the MOT manual to take that into account. Or is it old school testers just take a look at a Q and know what to do?


I'm not confident at all, I think all the Q plate people may have a shock next time they turn up for an MOT if the tester isn't friendly.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-inspection-manual-for-private-passenger-and-light-commercial-vehicles/8-nuisance#section-8-2-1

For emissions purposes only you should treat the following as first used before 1 August 1975:

kit cars and amateur-built vehicles first used before 1 August 1998
Wankel rotary-engined vehicles first used before 1 August 1987
Q plated vehicles

Kit cars
Kit cars and amateur-built vehicles first used on or after 1 August 1998 must have either Single Vehicle Approval (SVA) or Individual Vehicle Approval (IVA).

You must test kit cars or amateur built vehicles to the limits in the vehicle’s registration document (V5c). If the V5c does not show any limits, you must test it to the limits of the engine fitted at the time of the SVA or IVA test.

So if the Kit car was first registered after 1 August 1998 whether it is on a Q plate or not, the emissions are tested on what is on the V5C & shown to the tester at the time of the test. If they are not shown then they are tested on the age of the engine that was fitted at the tome of the SVA/IVA.

How do I know, I had my Q plated Kit Car tested last Thursday & went through it, the kit was registered on 1/9/1999 he wanted to test it as such, however I was able to point out that the engine fitted ceased production in 1993, so he tested it as that.

obfripper - 9/6/20 at 10:00 PM

It all comes down to the definition of first used date for mot purposes to determine the applied standards.

quote:

"When the ‘first used’ date is not known or incorrect, you should determine the vehicle’s ‘first used’ date as follows:

a. Its date of manufacture, if the vehicle was originally used without being registered in Great Britain, such as an imported vehicle or ex-HM Forces vehicle.

b. Vehicles having a Q plate registration when presented for MOT are to be treated as follows:
-for emission purposes only, they are to be considered as first used before 1 August 1975
-for all other testing purposes, they are to be considered as being first used on 1 January 1971

c. In any other case, the earlier of either its date of first registration or the date 6 months after it was manufactured, for example, vehicles first used before 1 September 2001 do not need to have anti-theft device. However, a vehicle first used after that date, but manufactured at least 6 months before that date (before March 2001) would still not need an anti-theft device to be fitted.


Section b being the important one here, irrespective of iva date/registration date, the applied standards for a Q plate are for 01/71 for everything except emissions, and pre 08/75 for emissions limits, ie visual check only.

If it's been tested to any other standard, the tester needs to go and read the manual!

If you were on an age related plate, the procedure applied would have been correct.

Dave

CosKev3 - 9/6/20 at 10:35 PM

quote:
Originally posted by obfripper
It all comes down to the definition of first used date for mot purposes to determine the applied standards.

quote:

"When the ‘first used’ date is not known or incorrect, you should determine the vehicle’s ‘first used’ date as follows:

a. Its date of manufacture, if the vehicle was originally used without being registered in Great Britain, such as an imported vehicle or ex-HM Forces vehicle.

b. Vehicles having a Q plate registration when presented for MOT are to be treated as follows:
-for emission purposes only, they are to be considered as first used before 1 August 1975
-for all other testing purposes, they are to be considered as being first used on 1 January 1971

c. In any other case, the earlier of either its date of first registration or the date 6 months after it was manufactured, for example, vehicles first used before 1 September 2001 do not need to have anti-theft device. However, a vehicle first used after that date, but manufactured at least 6 months before that date (before March 2001) would still not need an anti-theft device to be fitted.


Section b being the important one here, irrespective of iva date/registration date, the applied standards for a Q plate are for 01/71 for everything except emissions, and pre 08/75 for emissions limits, ie visual check only.

If it's been tested to any other standard, the tester needs to go and read the manual!

If you were on an age related plate, the procedure applied would have been correct.

Dave


"When the ‘first used’ date is not known or incorrect, you should determine the vehicle’s ‘first used’ date as follows"

Where do you find the first used date,is that the registration date?

If so why should the tester use the above testing method which is for if you dont know the first used date?

obfripper - 9/6/20 at 10:56 PM

quote:

"When the ‘first used’ date is not known or incorrect, you should determine the vehicle’s ‘first used’ date as follows"

Where do you find the first used date,is that the registration date?

If so why should the tester use the above testing method which is for if you dont know the first used date?


The whole purpose of a Q plate is to enable registration of a vehicle with unknown identity and first use, hence the section specifying the applicable dates to use.

For the majority of vehicles the registration date is the first used date, the remaining vehicles fall under one of the three sections quoted.

Dave

FEZ1025 - 10/6/20 at 06:34 AM

Section 8.2.1.2. Gaseous emissions

Specifically states how you should test a Kit car first used on or after 1st August 1998, it doesn't state a Kit car first used on or after 1st August 1998 unless they are on a Q plate.

obfripper - 10/6/20 at 06:56 AM

quote:
Originally posted by FEZ1025
Section 8.2.1.2. Gaseous emissions

Specifically states how you should test a Kit car first used on or after 1st August 1998, it doesn't state a Kit car first used on or after 1st August 1998 unless they are on a Q plate.


That only applies if it is on a new or age related plate (ie a defined first use date), the appropriate section is in the introduction under first use dates as quoted, a Q plated vehicle does not have a defined first use date.

It is one aspect of the mot that has not changed since Q plates were introduced.

Dave

peter030371 - 10/6/20 at 12:32 PM

The problem is some testers think they are right, even if you point out otherwise, and they will do what they think is right even when it isn't

When you start pointing out, polity, that they must be mistaken they can get all defense and start to become little Hitlers with such comments as 'I do this all day, I know my job' and 'who do you think you are telling me I don't need to test the emissions'. I've been there before but my current tester is very clued up and as soon as I book the car in he normally says 'ahh, Q plate this will be quick and easy'.

FEZ1025 - 10/6/20 at 01:11 PM

So you are all saying that anything with a Q plate is not a Kitcar?

peter030371 - 10/6/20 at 01:22 PM

quote:
Originally posted by FEZ1025
So you are all saying that anything with a Q plate is not a Kitcar?


It doesn't matter if its a kitcar or not, anything with a Q plate is tested as per 'for emission purposes only, they are to be considered as first used before 1 August 1975
-for all other testing purposes, they are to be considered as being first used on 1 January 1971' and that is regardless of when it was built or first used.

This has been clarified by the DVLA many times before.

[Edited on 10/6/20 by peter030371]

FEZ1025 - 10/6/20 at 01:41 PM

quote:
Originally posted by peter030371
This has been clarified by the DVLA many times before.

[Edited on 10/6/20 by peter030371]
Link?

peter030371 - 10/6/20 at 01:59 PM

quote:
Originally posted by FEZ1025
quote:
Originally posted by peter030371
This has been clarified by the DVLA many times before.

[Edited on 10/6/20 by peter030371]
Link?


Can't link to phone calls

FEZ1025 - 10/6/20 at 02:31 PM

quote:
Originally posted by peter030371
quote:
Originally posted by FEZ1025
quote:
Originally posted by peter030371
This has been clarified by the DVLA many times before.

[Edited on 10/6/20 by peter030371]
Link?


Can't link to phone calls
So you're asking me to believe some random guy on the Internet about some convenient phone calls he may or may not have had over what I can see written in black & white, good luck with that one.

peter030371 - 10/6/20 at 03:52 PM

quote:
Originally posted by FEZ1025
So you're asking me to believe some random guy on the Internet about some convenient phone calls he may or may not have had over what I can see written in black & white, good luck with that one.


Sorry have I offended you? I have been trying to help/ clarify a MOT issue that is not new and has been causing confusion for many years. The 'black and white' which you linked too has the answer but I am not going to argue the toss with you.

Thanks for the offer of good luck but I don't need it in this case. My car, Q plate and registered in 2004, is still smoke test only and this is how it was tested a few months ago (well after the last update to the regulations).

obfripper - 10/6/20 at 03:55 PM

As a tester, you carry out pre checks before you start an MOT in accordance with the introduction section of the manual to establish the testing standards to be applied for that vehicle.

If the vehicle is Q plated, it has no defined date of first use, therefore the dates given in that section are applied for that vehicle.

The post 08/98 kit car limits are only applicable to kit cars with a first used date newer than 08/98, with a Q plate this date is considered pre 08/75, hence the visual only check.

The Q plate MOT requirements have not changed in the time since the Q plate was introduced, the layout of the manual has majorly changed 3 times, but the relevant content has not.

Dave

Mr Whippy - 10/6/20 at 04:53 PM

quote:
Originally posted by FEZ1025
So you are all saying that anything with a Q plate is not a Kitcar?


Q plates can be on all sorts of vehicles from imports, trikes to modified landrovers, not just kit cars. The regulations for emissions will not change just as they don't change for old classics or vintage cars as it is assumed that to meet modern standards would be technically impossible. It its correct that only a smoke test applies to Q plates and will continue to be that way.

To the OP yes feel free to alter the engine post IVA, you will probably have to get a garage to do a written confirmation of any capacity changes but that's easy. I myself have swapped 2ltrs to 3ltrs with no difficult and compared to tin tops the increase in insurance is laughably cheap.

FEZ1025 - 10/6/20 at 06:48 PM

quote:
Originally posted by peter030371

Sorry have I offended you?
Get over yourself this isn't Fecesbook takes a lot more the a comment on a page to offend me, I'm a big boomer boy not a frigging snowflake

Mr Whippy - 10/6/20 at 07:24 PM

a what?

URBAN DICTIONARY TOP DEFINITION

Boomer Boy -

A person who was born after the baby boomer generation, but feels sympathetic towards boomers, doesn't have any friends his age and usually hangs out with boomers, listens to music from the baby boomer era, and shares interests with the many boomers he's around. Usually thinks he is smarter, older, and more experienced than his peers and thinks he learns more from boomers than actual education. Thinks he is tough and smart, although he cannot take jokes and gets offended if anyone even jokes about baby boomers. Basically, a white knight, but for baby boomers.

Person 1: "Boomers need to stop thinking we're so stupid if they don't even know how to use the internet."
Person 2: "Shut up or I won't talk to you again! They're smarter than you think!"
Person 1: "Quit being a bleeping boomer boy."

#boomers#baby boomers#respect your elders

by NotINef December 29, 2019

peter030371 - 10/6/20 at 07:33 PM

quote:
Originally posted by FEZ1025
Get over yourself this isn't Fecesbook takes a lot more the a comment on a page to offend me, I'm a big boomer boy not a frigging snowflake


lol, I was not trying to offend anyone petal