I'm stil in the design phase, or rather returning to it after laying out some components and having a re-assesment.

I'm building a mid engined car with a transversely mid mounted saab 2.3 lump, using the S14 suspension geometry.

How far forward can the driver go? Is there any requirement, for example, for the driver to be within the axles? Ideally I'd like te driver, who will be centrally positioned, to have their feet slightly in front of the front axle line.

I'd look it up myself, but I'm currently braving the rain in a tent in the new forest, with nothing but a pda with roaming internet and a copy of PPC!

Oh, the wife's here too, but I suspect her response will be "that sounds nice, dear...."

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Originally posted by Jesus-Ninja
How far forward can the driver go?

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Linky

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Originally posted by speedyxjs
Linky

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I've never noticed anything in the SVA manual that explicitly requires/prohibits any layout.

However there is a general 'in the view of the examiner is unsafe to driver/passenger/other road users' clause that could potentially be dragged into play.

I'd give the SVA station a call and have a chat about your intentions. Legs in front of the front axle is a bit dodgy unless there is plenty of crash absorption structure in front. IMO.

The forward control vans that did that don't seem to be about any more - where they banned?

I thought that "racing cars" prohibited feet first any longer?

Unless that's a personal fact as opposed to a fact-fact

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Originally posted by Jesus-Ninja
Ideally I'd like te driver, who will be centrally positioned, to have their feet slightly in front of the front axle line.

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Originally posted by mr henderson


Personally I think it's a terrible idea, and would be most reluctant to drive a car that put me so much closer to the scene of the accident.

John

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Originally posted by mr henderson

Why?

If there's some doubt as the the SVA rules it may be that there is a safety consideration, and perhaps one ought to consider it.

Personally I think it's a terrible idea, and would be most reluctant to drive a car that put me so much closer to the scene of the accident.

John

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Originally posted by Jesus-Ninja


Why? Because it all sits together well like that, and helps to balance that weight, being mid engined.

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Originally posted by 02GF74

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Originally posted by mr henderson


Personally I think it's a terrible idea, and would be most reluctant to drive a car that put me so much closer to the scene of the accident.

John

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but further away from the accident if shunted up the rear!

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not quite from scratch. the suspension geometry is pretty much defined, and I don't want to screw up akerman.

The driver will be as far within the front axle line as possible, which may well be all the way. I suppose the question is more of a "what if", but it's starting to look like the feet will be just beyone the rack although well in front of the front edge of the wheels.

I want to be able to accommodate two passengers slight to each side and behind the driver (a la McClaren F1)

Anyone who thinks a front axle is protection in a crash should watch a bit of F1 racing. 20kg wheels & tube wishbones simply shear off especially since they are held on by little brackets that you made in the vice. They is no reason why you can not build a crush zone infront of your feet that will do a lot more to protect you. Forward control vans and trucks were inherently dangerous because the was nothing but the front panel between your legs and an object, hence they were dangerous.

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Originally posted by Mr Whippy
Anyone who thinks a front axle is protection in a crash should watch a bit of F1 racing. 20kg wheels & tube wishbones simply shear off especially since they are held on by little brackets that you made in the vice. They is no reason why you can not build a crush zone infront of your feet that will do a lot more to protect you. Forward control vans and trucks were inherently dangerous because the was nothing but the front panel between your legs and an object, hence they were dangerous.

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I suspect there are but they will never say, they'd just be flooded with questions

I don't think the SVA manual has anything to say on the matter, but in the Protective Steering section the new IVA manual has the following:

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The vehicle structure ahead of the steering rack or box.

Of primary concern is the position of the steering rack or box. If the rack or box is ahead of the axle centreline, there will clearly be less of the vehicle structure available to deform and absorb energy than if the rack is behind the axle. Check for some energy absorbing device such as:

1. an energy absorbing bumper, or bumper mounting (eg mounted on hydraulic dampers or telescopic tubes);

2. a crushable section of chassis comprising one or more deliberate weaknesses;

3. in the case of a tubular chassis, deliberately un-triangulated bay or arrangement of tubes likely to deform progressively;

4. in the case of a composite monocoque an area of bodywork which the presenter can demonstrate has been designed to crush progressively and dissipate energy;

5. in the case of any vehicle, a non-structural nose cone of any material which the presenter can demonstrate has been designed to absorb energy.

Note 1: The first area of the vehicle to make contact with a barrier in a crash test may not be the chassis. The front wheels may do this. If this is the case, the load path from the hub carrier to its mountings on the chassis should be examined. The initial deformation might take place to the sides rather than the front of the chassis.

Note 2: If the steering rack or box is mounted behind the axle centreline, then there is far more room for the chassis to deform before moving the steering column backwards. A well designed vehicle will minimise further deformation once the impact has reached the steering rack or box.

Note 3: In cases where the steering rack or box is mounted behind the axle centreline, it may well be behind part of the engine or gearbox. In this case, check that no rigid part of the powerplant is likely to bear directly against the end of the steering shaft as it enters the rack or box and in so doing, transmit a force up the column towards the driver.

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Cheers, Matt. That's really useful. Definitely there needs to be something between driver and impact, whether it's the axle or a specifically designed and considered crumple zone. The latter being far preferable to sinple distance and plenty of engine and wheels!

My feet are right on the front panel of the TiCi.
Steering column is near vertical between the legs