heres some of the first pics of 1 of 5 cars that one of my clients is building,were making various components to there designs including upper and lower wishbones,fully welded and mirror polished swingarms,suspension bracketry,rear hub carriers,we've also done the powdercoating in house, were of to the autosport show friday 9th (NEC)where the first one will look completed with all bodywork and running gear. 2.0 duratec rear engined and twin chain driven,the company has had there own buck made for bodywork and the managing director has designed the whole car from scratch with our input along the way
i have some early concept photos somewhere i'll fish them out if anyones interested
some of these cars will be for sale if the figures work out o.k,next year when we may go into production

[Edited on 6/1/09 by IDONTBELEIVEIT]

pic 2

pic 3

Funny..I thought of using that method of power transfer for an off-roader I was designing...stops you having to rely on high angle CVs with long travel. What about the varying chain length? (it will change wont' it) My version had the same centre distance and was parallel so no length change.

Looks good..I'm interested to hear the thinking behind a lot of it.

Alan

If its Duratec (FORD?) power then why chain drives? Thinking about converting the gearbox means making drive sprockets where drive shafts would be?? Whats the point?

quote:

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Originally posted by Alan B

What about the varying chain length? (it will change wont' it)

Alan

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quote:

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Originally posted by coozer
If its Duratec (FORD?) power then why chain drives? Thinking about converting the gearbox means making drive sprockets where drive shafts would be?? Whats the point?

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having the chains moves the engine forward from the rear axle, so it could be for packaging issues, ie a boot.

Would be interesting to see how the rear dedion copes with roll etc. There must be some compliance in the link between the sprockets.

[Edited on 6/1/09 by JoelP]

I still cant see it, looks like the bolt is on the same centre as the cv joint. Thinking about it - what would that bolt to, everything is turning?

quote:

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Originally posted by JoelP

Would be interesting to see how the rear dedion copes with roll etc. There must be some compliance in the link between the sprockets.

[Edited on 6/1/09 by JoelP]

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quote:

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Originally posted by Mansfield

quote:

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Originally posted by Alan B

What about the varying chain length? (it will change wont' it)

Alan

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Can the chain length vary with this set up? Wouldn't that require the 'swing arm to change in length as well? If it doesn't change, the suspension won't work. Or am I being thick?

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I too can't see how that suspension geometry works without binding. It appears that the two trailing link rods will force the rear hub to move in an arc, which will have to match the arc that the trailing arm will force upon the hub. There are too many constraints to movement.

May we see a wider view of the rear suspension?

Cheers R

[Edited on 6/1/09 by rachaeljf]

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Originally posted by JoelP
Would be interesting to see how the rear dedion copes with roll etc. There must be some compliance in the link between the sprockets.

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The sprocket nearest the front of the car is not in-line with the 4 link pivots in that shot, which will give varying chain length as the suspension compresses.
Surely the chain length can only vary if the swing arm length changes, from the picture it looks like the front sprocket and front swing arm pivot are coaxial. If that were the case the four holes could be for chain adjustment.

[Edited on 6/1/09 by Mansfield]

I’m struggling to see how it works with camber in roll?

Maybe the front sprocket locates on the gearbox output shaft which is mounted in a outboard bearing with the CV joint at the sprocket end and the whole assemble tilts, Lots more pic’s please its intriguing

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Originally posted by mark chandler
Maybe the front sprocket locates on the gearbox output shaft which is mounted in a outboard bearing with the CV joint at the sprocket end and the whole assemble tilts, Lots more pic’s please its intriguing

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quote:

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Originally posted by Mansfield
Surely the chain length can only vary if the swing arm length changes,

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quote:

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Originally posted by mark chandler
Lots more pic’s please its intriguing

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Originally posted by MikeRJ

This will make the sprockets move closer together as the links move away from the horizontal in either direction.

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Description

I'll reword what I meant to say...

The chain length would need to vary, but as is ponted out it can't due the fixed arm. So it must either a) have the front or rear sprocket floating or b) it will bind due to conflicting arcs of movement.

Thats how I see it.

Or (c) the chain will have a bit of slack in it the way motorcycles do.

That bit is easy I would think it's the camber change that will give problems. Drive chains don't like being twisted, I've had similar problems myself.

Neil

[Edited on 7/1/09 by trikerneil]

Hi

One of five MSA spec roll bar and going to all the trouble of moving the drive rearwards. Is this the new Eclipse car that is being built for the 750 kits.

Cheers Matt

i think the entire chain moves with the rear axle. That bent fabriaction keeps the chain taut, and the front sprocket must have some freedom to move.

The chain will stretch, is what (for the benefit of other posters) I understand you to mean.

Answer would appear to be that the sprocket on the right is on an eccentric. Loosen and rotate to move the sprocket out or in. Same as the chain tension adjusters on my KTM Duke (and I believe on a VFR or any single-sided Duc).

quote:

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Originally posted by Alan B
Funny..I thought of using that method of power transfer for an off-roader I was designing...stops you having to rely on high angle CVs with long travel. What about the varying chain length? (it will change wont' it) My version had the same centre distance and was parallel so no length change.

Looks good..I'm interested to hear the thinking behind a lot of it.

Alan

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quote:

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Originally posted by Mansfield

quote:

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Originally posted by MikeRJ

This will make the sprockets move closer together as the links move away from the horizontal in either direction.

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That is the bit I don't get, I can see that the sprocket centres need to vary or the suspension will bind up, I can't see how the centres vary with this lovely aluminium fabrication fixing their centre distance.


Description

[Edited on 6/1/09 by Mansfield]

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i think ive got it, in pic 3 you can see something above the sprocket, i believe this is a vertical arm that allows it to move fore and aft, probably with enough compliance to cope with roll too. The cv's would be fine with this and the arm between the sprockets would hold the chain taut.

I think you are right, it would also support the driveshaft and outer cv whilst allowing the essential freedom for suspension movement. Genius Joel.

As this has now turned into puzzle corner I just thought I would throw my bit in. I don't think that the physical engineering is as complex as you think however the maths may be moreso. It would be very useful to see a photo from dead square on to the side of the assembly but I think the clue is that the pivot point of the trailing arm is not the centre of the sprocket.

well spotted matt(procomp)do you know the guys from eclipse sportscars??i've been working closely with clive and co on this project,what a really nice bunch of chaps
wayne

Hi

It is basicaly a bunch of the 750 kit car guys getting together to produce a new car to try and win outright against the likes of the Taydeck which is effectively an illegal one off car. Even by producing 5 cars to qualify for the regulations. It is effectively a bit of a no no due to them already saying that they are only producing the cars for themselves and not for a production run. It is all part of what is killing the championship dead. As predicted by a few drivers the championship only has 1-2 years left to run as it stands so it's an awful lot of work for a car built to a specific set of regulation for a championship that will not exist in a year or two.

Best of luck to them.

Cheers Matt

Really it's the rules of entry to the champs that need changing/enforcing. People have been using racing to sell cars for years, it's a good way to prove they work but to specifically build enough numbers to qualify for a race series is a bit cynical. Lets hope the guys behind this have every intention of offering them up for sale.

If 750mc are stupid enough to only ask for 5 to be built before a car is eligible then they get what they deserve IMO. It's just not enough to prevent people building effectively a one off special then hoping to recoup the money back by selling some.

Then again you can't blame people going to extremes to beat the one off special that's been winning everything for the last 5 years.

Isn't it crazy though that Kits are in this mess, I mean, it should be low cost and yet here we have people building 5 cars from scratch, it's almost like homologated sportscars! Mad!

hate to change the subject-but what are those wheels? theyre really snazzy!!

Hi

Must say it dose have a nice set of body lines to it though. But not so sure about the choice of a gold colour. Mind decals and a few stripes could rectify that.And it must be said that the lighting within the halls dose not do a very good job of making the cars colours look good fortunately there where not many red cars ( lots of the red cars at the show looked terrible under the lights) on the 750mc stand except the new Raynard BEC machine.
I would have taken a few photos but got pulled into an argument with a certain driver of a one off special so walked before it got out of hand

Only other thing was that the bumf on display with the car mentions that the chassis was designed by a celebrated chassis designer. But last time i spoke to Tony southgate he said he had nothing to do with it. So not sure who they mean by celebrated.

Cheers Matt

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Originally posted by Custardtart
...
Isn't it crazy though that Kits are in this mess, I mean, it should be low cost and yet here we have people building 5 cars from scratch, it's almost like homologated sportscars! Mad!

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artists impression of the car

1

2

3

Thats pretty!