This thread is a great example of why name/shame threads are a BAD thing.

If the person or firm being got at in the thread isn’t there to defend himself then its bloody unfair. If he is there to defend himself then people reading it don’t know who is telling the truth (probably both of them, each giving their own experiences) and who is not telling the truth. Or it could even be that the truth is somewhere in between or not there at all.

Personally I think forums are better off without name/shame threads.

I to some part agree, however with the bad comes the good, and people like to post their experiences, both good and bad.

The problem here is we are talking THEIR experiences, not a third persons.

Also, people rarely pass on good results, just bad ones!

The outside fact is this. If as a company we were 'so bad' as it were, why would I be on here defending myself? Why would I of even bothered to help richard with a V3 in the first place? How comes we are featured in so many magazines, and build championship winning cars?

We have a 4000sq foot premises packed with work, and an MOT bay doing 8 tests a day as well, a dyno that does on average £300/day in tuning, so why play for the small profit in a retired V3 unit, bringing with it the support requirements and so on?

The reason is becuase I actually enjoy helping people, and I like I said as any tuning company would agree, the grin on the customers face when they pull back in after the road test (or the funny noises they make on the road test and almost little boy excitment thereafter!) makes it all worth while.

We simply wouldn't be a succesful company if we had not good results, certianly not after 6 years now, with ever growing expansion and development.

As someone above put how threads like these stop people wanting to deal with companies 'like us', I agree, it makes me want to stop dealing with customers who dont appreciate the cost of motorsport, those who dont appreciate mistakes can indeed be on their part, and those who dont appreciate the efforts we go through to help.

We always go over and above the call of duty for customer satisfaction, and like other tuners are at the end of the phone to answer technical queries.. even out of hours when warranted!

This is in by no way a dig at Richard, in fact after speaking to him he said how he didnt mean it to dig so bad at us, just expressing frustration, which I can appreciate.

Time pressure gets to all of us!

Matt

[Edited on 1/11/10 by mtechmatt]

OK, i need to chip in here.

My initial disappointments are because my expectations from companies (Including my own) which provide a service are very high. Subsequently, this means that i am often constantly looking at areas for improvement and development.
Presently, i am working as a transition consultant on a CHP (Combined Heating & Power) scheme, whereby my standards are the difference between having no tools, materials and no maintenance carried out for 8 years, to having a full set of clean tools, correct work areas, painted floors and up to date maintenance. I strongly believe that your work space often reflects your standard of work - "Face Value" which i refer to below.

I have been wanting to upgrade from my old V2.2 for some time, and the problems i had with the suspected EDIS (Even after phils help identifying the ECU as fine) and not being able to get hold of one last week, really just expedited my decision to go for a newer ECU.

At the time, i think there may have been a communication problem which lead me to believe that the ECU was new - Matt, im almost certain that Tim said you had a "New one Stashed away", but im not worried about this.

As already said, i did make some unfair comments with which, my urgency added more emotion than i should have allowed leading the their subsequent removal. I apologise if this offended in any way.

I should also add, that Matt is correct in saying that he has offered everything he can (Short of coming over to fit it himself!! ) to help me out, and am confident that somehow i will have the car running on the V3 ECU.

In Phils's defence as well, he did try to offer as much help as possible, with an ECU that he didnt even sell me.

The V3 Coil Driver problem is still a bit of a mystery to me as i didnt have any map loaded in, only the settings from the MS1 however, the dwell settings may have been the cause, after some searching around.

This thread was not a Name and Shame thread at all, it was merely an expression of my experiences and an open forum discussion. Similarly, if either had excelled in any way i would have said so.

In short;

I approached M-Tech for a V3 in a bid to upgrade and remove EDIS.
M-Tech have produced one and offered the repair FOC under the lifetime warranty.
Phil did help me to diagnose the MS1 as serviceable, and potential EDIS issues.

I will also add, that im not going to be in the middle of Matt and Phil's pissing contest, and will take either party on face value (Good or bad) rather than historical (2006 was mentioned?) problems. Feedback as a regular contributor to this forum is a consequence of a good or a bad service, indifferently. That is what makes this forum so useful to all members.

Matt, The quote "Customers Cars" was the phrase you used to describe them. Dont read anything into that, it is quite literally, a quote. No ill intention there.

So there we have it. Ive said my peace, and have nothing more to say on my previous posting errors, or this situation at this stage, though my build blog and "Update" thread will be kept updated.

All i can say is what i see, know, think and experience. This is after all, a discussion forum for like minded people.

The thing with name and shame threads is that in every case, I should think, the person starting it is just setting out their own experiences.

That's all well and good, but one person's experience isn't necessarily the actual truth of a situation. To take an extreme example- suppose someone was to go to a film and say they absolutely hated it. Maybe they did, and they would be speaking the truth, but it would be a truth from their own point of view. It could be that everybody else in the cinema loved it. But if other people only read that one point of view, they might not go and see the film for themselves.

And that's the problem, it's only one person's point of view. They are absolutely entitled to it, but I'm not sure if they ought to be allowed to tell goodness knows how many other people about it through a well-used forum like this.

I don't want to cause offence to Richard, especially as there have been plenty of other threads like this in the past, but I would like others to say what they think about this type of thread, and whether such threads are fair or not.

Richard,

I have some good news to add. After speaking to Notts, the ECu will be with you wednesday

Call me once you have it there and we will do some prechecks before we fire her up

Cheers,
Matt

quote:

---

Originally posted by interestedparty
I don't want to cause offence to Richard, especially as there have been plenty of other threads like this in the past, but I would like others to say what they think about this type of thread, and whether such threads are fair or not.

---

I am going to hide in a corner and put loads of layers of foam and bubble wrap around me.

Richard, did all these happen because i pushed you to the garage for some progress the night that the first ECU was damaged?

quote:

---

Originally posted by interestedparty
The thing with name and shame threads is that in every case, I should think, the person starting it is just setting out their own experiences.

That's all well and good, but one person's experience isn't necessarily the actual truth of a situation. To take an extreme example- suppose someone was to go to a film and say they absolutely hated it. Maybe they did, and they would be speaking the truth, but it would be a truth from their own point of view. It could be that everybody else in the cinema loved it. But if other people only read that one point of view, they might not go and see the film for themselves.

And that's the problem, it's only one person's point of view. They are absolutely entitled to it, but I'm not sure if they ought to be allowed to tell goodness knows how many other people about it through a well-used forum like this.

I don't want to cause offence to Richard, especially as there have been plenty of other threads like this in the past, but I would like others to say what they think about this type of thread, and whether such threads are fair or not.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by l0rd
I am going to hide in a corner and put loads of layers of foam and bubble wrap around me.

Richard, did all these happen because i pushed you to the garage for some progress the night that the first ECU was damaged?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by mtechmatt
Richard,

I have some good news to add. After speaking to Notts, the ECu will be with you wednesday

Call me once you have it there and we will do some prechecks before we fire her up

Cheers,
Matt

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by interestedparty
The thing with name and shame threads is that in every case, I should think, the person starting it is just setting out their own experiences.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by MakeEverything
I dont want to cause offence by calling you a hypocrite, but i draw your attention to your post here

Now youre confusing me.....

---

One could argue that it's only peripherally relevant, but it's well known that good management practice extends to, 'praise in public, criticise in private'. In general I think that praise at the resolution of a problem should be publicised. Writing that one had a problem, but after a number of phone calls, emails, etc, it was resolved, is fine. I tend to feel that posting about a problem when it's still active is an indication of a breakdown in communication, and broadcasting it in public is unlikely to help. It makes it harder to get the problem fixed. Now, I know this appears to contradict what's happened in this thread, but I do think this is the exception, and there has been a bit of unhealthy posting and comment retraction along the way.
I think however that threatening to post is an acceptable tactic, whilst still keeping it private and keeping the communication channels open, but once that card is played it just makes it harder to get a resolution 9 times out of 10, at least not without some blood-letting.
At the end of the day, if a supplier loses your business because they haven't met your expectations, so be it, but is it a customer's right or duty to prejudice others against that business? It's particularly sensitive on forums like this because negative posts tend to address, or get their message across to a substantial percentage of the supplier's potential customers.
In this particular instance, there's been a positive resolution, and MTech have come out of it, I think, not looking too shabby, however, anyone that read the thread a couple of days ago and hasn't been back to see the outcome would most likely have been prejudiced against them. Is that a fair reward for the help they've offered? I don't have any links to MTech, I'm just responding to the discussion topic whether posts like this should be encouraged or not, and I think not.

When I was in the market for an MS ECU, I avoided MTech due to things I had read in other places about them with no-one apparently speaking in their favour. I bought one from Phil (extraefi), and both the MS and aftersales support I've got have been excellent.

However, having now heard Matt's side of the history and how he's been up front about this issue and how it is dealt with, I have a much more favourable opinion about the customer relations side of MTech. I don't like the unresolved issue of the legitimacy of the MTech ECU though.

The thread was simply started as an expression of my experiences, and i have (as has Matt) been very open about the positive aspects however, at the time of posting i was aware that i would more than likely ( i have) missed my planned deadline last week which means that the car is unlikely to be MOT'd this side of christmas. This is the reason for the emotion in some of my posts, which was totally incorrect of me - hence the retraction and public apology. The facts though, still remain unchanged, more of which have been posted over the last few days.

If anything, i think the thread has promoted the M-Tech business in a better light, and has surfaced some rumours that clearly needed the 2nd side of the story.

For the last time i will say that this was never a name and shame thread. Anyone challenging that, should remind themselves of This.

There are also some questions in the original post, asking for advice on Schematics.

[Edited on 2-11-10 by MakeEverything]

quote:

---

Originally posted by interestedparty

quote:

---

Originally posted by MakeEverything
I dont want to cause offence by calling you a hypocrite, but i draw your attention to your post here

Now youre confusing me.....

---

but some people work on the 'where there's smoke there's fire' principle even though they ought to be more sensible.

---

Richard,

I assume your ECU arrived back with you today?

Cheers,
Matt

Hi Matt,
At present I'm still on my way home but will check when I get in.

quote:

---

I don't like the unresolved issue of the legitimacy of the MTech ECU though.

---

Phil,

This is where you are WRONG.

We were happily selling the V3s en masse.

Were one of the first companies to sell them fully built on eBay and the like. And then you came along. Now I appreciate the effort you put in etc, but you then made an effort to get the MS community against us, which led to us being shut down! Unfortunately, I ad a supplier and he provided me with boards.

Our supply and qualityn of product was very good, we kept on going, and then finally bought a rolling road and openmed up tuning.

WE TRIED SEVERAL TIMES TO BUY A LICENSE!

Ask James Murray, who I am STILL in disscusions with over the MS3 as we would like to license it and develop it further!!

I would happily pay a meager 4% to the MS guys, but you just won't take it, even though our systems are 100% more reliable, and have much more advanced hardware features that M-Tech paid to have developed, again which I am willing to contribute to the MS project!

You can but try....

Sorry Matt, but if you were selling assembled units for a profit before being a licenced supplier and then get a bad rep at the start (which to be honest is all over the internet) then its no suprise that your supply of official boards was stopped. Going ahead and then copying someones itellectual property is both morally and legally wrong irrespective of whether you thought you were in the right or wrong.

If your quality has improved then fair enough, and you seem happy to resolve customers issues, but by ripping off someone elses design and code is still wrong.

To be honest the forum is no place to resolve the issue.

about time for an up-date ? After all the discussion this thread caused , did the issue get resolved ?

... a lady never forgets!

but does she forgive?

Thought id share an update...

After Richard managed to destroy the V3 we supplied by loading on an EDIS map, we took it back and reapired it free of charge and returned to him.

In the mean time, low and behold he got his other one working, no doubt with our extensive chats and help we offered.

He now would like a full refund

He can send it back, and he will get his refund, but I make this vow here and now:

I will now not deal with the following group of people:
* Those who want it 'cheap'
* Those who have no money
* Those whom obviously have very little grasp of EFI
* Those who expect phone calls at 8pm when our website clearly states our opening hours
* Addendum to the above: Those who cannot read, or are lacking mental capacity to calculate times, may call anytime, but do not expect an answer.
* Anyone part of a group pertaning to 'lo-cost', as these seem to be the most troublesome, perhaps they should stick to build it yourself megsauirt V2.2s and EDIS modules and all sorts of scrap, to aid their quest for this 'lo-cost' vehicle.

However, I will deal with the following, as we currently do, and whom somehow keep us 'cowboys' (as Richard put it) in business, in a rather large premises, with a rather large turnover....
*Those whom task us to build race cars with real budgets
*Those that can drive and as aresult win the competitions they enter

In fact, theres a correlation, those who run businesses seem to be able to afford doing a job right, and getting success with M-tech, and these same very people tell tales of nightmare customers, that usually open not with 'What can I expect' but merely 'What is my CHEAPEST option?', in any profession.

Richard was also, SHOCKED that at Mtech we dont have a test rig for our ECUs, well that is mainly down to the fact that A) we have cars here, with engines, that run on the ECUs, and B) Whenever we fit them, they dont break... In fact, Every car that one of my staff has wiured up, has then gone onto the rollers to be mapped, with no ECU issues at all, yet every customers whos dads mates briothers is an electrician who maneged to wire up his own chrismas tree lights seems to have no end of issues! And before everyone goes off on one, remember Richard was having issues beforehand... the buck has simply been passed to us... laughable.


Next time your ill richard, go to your £300 doctor, stay clear of the £495 bunch, they can be trouble, though the suckers they usually are, they do try and help....

Have a great xmas everyone

[Edited on 18/12/10 by mtechmatt]

Name and shame thread backfire!

Its all to easy to fire off a thread when you are angry, I do it all the time!!

How many of use buy copied CD's, download stuff and buy fake stuff off ebay - remember the MD-80 type cameras we were all raving about a few months ago!

[Edited on 18/12/10 by prawnabie]

People invariably get what they pay for, we supplied a known working ECU, and offered free mapping when he started having issues, but instead of bringing the car down, at say a cost of £100, he has decided to return the ECU, and revert to his old problematic ECU, and guess what, he will need it mapping, Im guessing around £400 cost there

Oh, lets do this the Currys way:
-Hi I bought this TV, then I poured water over it, now it doesent owrk..

-Ok, return it, we'll fix it for you and return it within 3 days (currys take nmonths, but you get the idea) (Man in currys thinks, here we go...

-Oh in the meantime I realised why my other TV kept cutting out, becuase you kindly pointed out that puring water over it was a bad idea, thank you mister currys, now, jsut for me, could I return this now defunct unit, after you have spend time and effort helping me realise the eorrors of my ways

Now this is where currys would say: Sod off you moron, though it would proboably come with a £10 gift voucher

We said 'Have free mappung, we'll sort it get it down to us, meanwhile, we're all thinking "Ah the problem cant be the wiring, as he says that is 100% ok, and he has wired loads of ECUs, perhaps its bscuase he loaded on an EDIS map onto a non-EDIS ECU? Probably, but its our fault for thinking he woudnt be that stupid, oh wait... he tricked us, the crafty bugger!

When he asked for the refund I said thats fine, £250+VAT, costing him £50, which in fact was our time effort, repair cost and postage and so on, but oh no, that would be far too much to ask, as that £50 will go along way in him not learning a lesson.

I then get an email about how we are a bunch of cowboys, he says, to us, in our fully equipped workshop with a car park full of work and conversions underway? No wonder he had problems with an ECU, that has wires and all sorts, he is obviously better qualified at wiring than he is at judging a companies performance, or maybe not....


[Edited on 18/12/10 by mtechmatt]

Does this :

* Anyone part of a group pertaning to 'lo-cost', as these seem to be the most troublesome, perhaps they should stick to build it yourself megsauirt V2.2s and EDIS modules and all sorts of scrap, to aid their quest for this 'lo-cost' vehicle.


Mean you will no longer deal with people from this site ?

I am going to be in the market for a megasquirt type ecu next year for my zetec with gsxr throttle bodies and just want to know whether to knock M Tech off my options list or not ?

I think you have hit the nail on the head there andy

I don't think Matt cares TBH... he's taken a fair kicking on this thread and probably feels he could do without the hassle (assuming what he has said has indeed been the case, but I'll put my popcorn in the warming drawer as I suspect there may be more to come!).

Hmmm... well, I read that as that he was unwilling/disinclined to deal with people who wanted sommat for nowt, as in
low or no cost.

Not the locostbuilders per se, but those who were not willing to pay for its worth, or couldn't quite grasp
what could be refundable and what could not .........

But I could well be wrong.....

Mtech over to you to clarify please.

Fozzie

Hello Guys,

This was never a name and shame thread to start with. Below are the emails relating to it all.


Sent Today;
Matt,

Thank you for such a professional response in capital letters out of hours, I'm sure as the Managing Director of the company you find that very inconvenient. I also make reference to your post on the Locostbuilders forum regarding out of hours response, in which on the 31st October 2010 you said " As soon as Richard called me in working hours the next day, yes thats right chaps, we close at 5" it really does reflect your "Long Attitude" in its true form.

The testing of the ECU on a bike engine cannot constitute a test bed, as the only similarity with this is that it has (I presume) four cylinders. The coils are different, as are the majority of the settings. I haven’t seen your diagnostic report which identifies the original fault, which I assume you have as a reputable and professional business.

I am still puzzled as to why you see that you've helped this struggling customer in any way other than what is partly expected as "Good Customer Practice", and the fact that I cannot afford to transport myself and two vehicles 150 miles (time as well as money) shouldn’t say to you that I don’t have any money - which is incredibly short sighted and foolish of you to say.

You should understand (and as a business owner I should be surprised that you don’t) that every project has a budget, which in turn has a justifiable means. There comes a point in a project where a solution (such as the one which involves two days off work and a 300 mile round trip) pushes the costs beyond practicality. Surely as such a highly qualified individual with extensive business experience you have learnt this at some point in your career, or perhaps the your costs for taking two days off and hiring a vehicle and/or trailer are covered in your prices.

I also acknowledge your statement that my consumer rights and expectations are seen by you as being a "Problematic Customer", and at no point have I asked you to provide me with an ECU free of charge. Just the product which I had paid for, which you offered support from the outset.

Your comment regarding "Stupidity" is slanderous and you are treading some very dodgy ground. Your ECU was not supplied with any instructions or even reset to a standard map, regardless of me informing you of the intended use. With the complexity and diversity of such systems, you should understand that it is the suppliers responsibility to provide operation and maintenance requirements in order for the consumer to care for the product appropriately.

I also recognise (and will make it known at your request) that you don’t wish to deal with anyone not wishing to do business with customers with problems, nor without an endless budget but those with "Race Cars".

Have a great weekend.

Richard.


-----Original Message-----
From: Matthew Thorne [mailto:Matthew.Thorne@mtechautomotive.co.uk]
Sent: 18 December 2010 15:11
To: Richard
Subject: Re: MTECH ECU



CONSIDER THE BIKE ENGINE THE TESTBED...

EITHER WAY SEND IT BACK FOR A REFUND, BUT YOU AND YOU ALONE HAVE MADE THIS BUNCH OF COWBOYS OPT TO NEVER HELP A STRUGGLING CUSTOMER AGAIN. THE FUNNY THING IS THAT YOU CANNOT GET IT RUNNING, HOWEVER WE WOULD, YOU DIDN'T AFFORD THE TRSNSORT FOR FREE MAPPING, EVEN THOUGH MAPPING WILL COST YOU MORE THAN THE FUEL. PERHAPS I SHOULD OF TURNED AWAY YOUR BUSINESS WHEN I REALISED THAT YOU SHOWED THE SIGNS OF A PROBLEMATIC CUSTOMER. NO MONEY, WANTING IT ALL FOR NOTHING, AND ABOVE ALL BLAMING US FOR THE STUPIDITY OF LOADING AN EDIS MAP.... HO HUM LIVE AND LEARN. APOLOG
ISE TO EVERYONE ELSE FOR ME WHO CALLS WITH AN ISSUE, AS I WILL BE TOO BUSY DEALING WITH RACE CARS, THAT LOW AND BEHOLD WE GET RUNNING. LOOK AT THAT I ANSWERED AN EMAIL OUT OF HOURS? AM I SLIPPING ALREADY? MUST EITHER BE MY LOVE OF HORSES OR MY LONG ATTITUDE..
Sent from my HTC



----- Reply message -----
From: "Richard
Date: Sat, Dec 18, 2010 13:24
Subject: MTECH ECU
To: "'Matthew Thorne'" <Matthew.Thorne@mtechautomotive.co.uk>

Matt,



I have thought long and hard about your email, and sought some professional
advice. It’s not unfair at all. I am merely exercising my consumer rights
to return something that has never worked in the first place, or rather;



• Is of unsatisfactory quality when purchased, with covers missing
and without instructions

• Is not as originally described as a “New” item found in your
“Secret Stash of new units” when on my way to collect

• Is not fit for purpose, as I cannot (nor can anyone else) get this
ECU running on my car



I bought this from you as an item that had been “Removed from a bike engine
grass track racer”, and without a service which was a surprise to me when I
arrived. When I asked you if had any facilities to test them at your
workshop there, you said no, so how do you know it was working fully when
you sold it to me.



Just because you offer a lifetime warranty, doesn’t preclude you from
liability or returns, it merely states your voluntary commitment to repair
at any time in its life.



To be honest, I feel let down, ripped off and so angry at your last email,
regardless of trying to keep up relations. I am more than happy to share
the positives of our experience with others, though these are now somewhat a
distant memory. When I drove the 150 miles each way to come and see you, I
thought I was dealing with a bona-fide business, not a cowboy outfit. It is
admirable that you have managed to build a business as large as yours off
the back of someone else’s technology, however hope that you realise it
could be so much bigger with more of a customer focus.



Richard.



From: Matthew Thorne [mailto:Matthew.Thorne@mtechautomotive.co.uk]
Sent: 16 December 2010 10:17
To: Richard
Subject: RE: MTECH ECU



Richard,



You broke the unit, and want to send it back, despite the fact there our
warranty means a unit should never be sent back?



If you buya TV from currys, break it, they replace it, you cant then send
it back becuase your old tv started working again?



Rather unfair I think!!



Cheers


Matthew Thorne BSc, MEng (Loughborough)

Managing Director

Id just like to add as well, that the repairing of the old ECU was absolutely unrelated to any advice offered by MTECH or Matt. Particularly as it is an EDIS unit and a bona-fide Megasquirt one. Totally different, so matts claim that his help got it running is all too easy to make.

richard,

Lets go rght to post #1, and change it to say the following:

"I bought a working ECU, then I loaded the wrong map, and killed the ECU."

If that statement is wrong, then yes, please have a go, if however it is correct (as all can see) then I suggest you apologise to all of those who will lose my services.

Remember, you had an issue, you blew up the ECU, and becuase I never called you back at 8pm you were on this very forum complaining about us! I have replied to your email, be sure to post that too.

Capitals are due to me ending from my mobile, as unfortunatekly, much no doubt to Richards disgrace, I am not in the office...

Just to reiterate:
Richard bought a working V3, which he blew up by loading the wrong map, as he admitted, and now blames us. He then comes on here harping away, but low and behold when he contacted me, we had it back, repaired and returned within 3 days, free of charge, as per our warranty.

If you prefer Richard I would rather you take all of your proclaimed legal action and we will see if you get your money back, or of course you can admit the truth, and as stated in the email you will get your money back.

I really don;t want to have to spell it out for you, to be honest I am annoyed with myself having ever offered to help in the first place!!

And Bonified ECU or not, did it read everything corrrectly, yes indeed, did you blow it up, yes you did....

I can honestly state (And anyone on here will agree) that an ECU that was running and engine would of ran another IF it were setup correctly to do so!! Think how much simpler this would of gone if you had not rushed into it and instead called me for a quick step by step!

The fact I contunied to help you after all of your comments (which you realised were wrong and subsequently removed!) goes to show the lengths I go to!!

I feel sorry for the poor sod who is next on your 'rattle leaves pram to blame list'

This is fun though

quote:

---

Originally posted by MakeEverything
Hello Guys,

This was never a name and shame thread to start with. Below are the emails relating to it all.


Sent Today;
Matt,

Thank you for such a professional response in capital letters out of hours, I'm sure as the Managing Director of the company you find that very inconvenient. I also make reference to your post on the Locostbuilders forum regarding out of hours response, in which on the 31st October 2010 you said " As soon as Richard called me in working hours the next day, yes thats right chaps, we close at 5" it really does reflect your "Long Attitude" in its true form.

****The typo and caps are due to my phone (the send from my HTC gives this away...)


The testing of the ECU on a bike engine cannot constitute a test bed, as the only similarity with this is that it has (I presume) four cylinders. The coils are different, as are the majority of the settings. I haven’t seen your diagnostic report which identifies the original fault, which I assume you have as a reputable and professional business.

*** Oh your experinece in this area is so great, I must only agree with you, or perhaps not. The settings make no difference seeing as you wiped them for your EDIS map....


I am still puzzled as to why you see that you've helped this struggling customer in any way other than what is partly expected as "Good Customer Practice", and the fact that I cannot afford to transport myself and two vehicles 150 miles (time as well as money) shouldn’t say to you that I don’t have any money - which is incredibly short sighted and foolish of you to say.

*** You cannot afford transport, but you can afford the time you have spent here and the future mapping costs? My aim was to get the car running, I'm not so sure about yours....

You should understand (and as a business owner I should be surprised that you don’t) that every project has a budget, which in turn has a justifiable means. There comes a point in a project where a solution (such as the one which involves two days off work and a 300 mile round trip) pushes the costs beyond practicality. Surely as such a highly qualified individual with extensive business experience you have learnt this at some point in your career, or perhaps the your costs for taking two days off and hiring a vehicle and/or trailer are covered in your prices.

*** The end result is you will need to do this at somepoint, dont blame US for making you realise that projects ioften go OVER budget!

I also acknowledge your statement that my consumer rights and expectations are seen by you as being a "Problematic Customer", and at no point have I asked you to provide me with an ECU free of charge. Just the product which I had paid for, which you offered support from the outset.

*** Which we gave fullmost and without hesitation, offering mapping and so on to get you on the merry road...

Your comment regarding "Stupidity" is slanderous and you are treading some very dodgy ground. Your ECU was not supplied with any instructions or even reset to a standard map, regardless of me informing you of the intended use. With the complexity and diversity of such systems, you should understand that it is the suppliers responsibility to provide operation and maintenance requirements in order for the consumer to care for the product appropriately.

** As dodgy as the ground you are treading by your previous posts? We do provide these means, via the webiste and the phone. If you cannot CALL US or READ you are not a fit person to be a customer, again, why I am so annoyed by selling you the ubnit in the first place. And in terms or reseting to a standard map, does a 36-1 dual coil map seem Ok to you? As that was what was on the bike, if tyou could reload the map.... oh no you wiped it!

I also recognise (and will make it known at your request) that you don’t wish to deal with anyone not wishing to do business with customers with problems, nor without an endless budget but those with "Race Cars".

*** No I dont wish to desal with PROBLEMATIC custumers, and I also real budget, not endless. No wonder you had problem with the ECU, when I said call me after wiring it up, I think you heard 'Load an EDIS map and destroy it'

Have a great weekend.

Richard.


-----Original Message-----
From: Matthew Thorne [mailto:Matthew.Thorne@mtechautomotive.co.uk]
Sent: 18 December 2010 15:11
To: Richard
Subject: Re: MTECH ECU



CONSIDER THE BIKE ENGINE THE TESTBED...

EITHER WAY SEND IT BACK FOR A REFUND, BUT YOU AND YOU ALONE HAVE MADE THIS BUNCH OF COWBOYS OPT TO NEVER HELP A STRUGGLING CUSTOMER AGAIN. THE FUNNY THING IS THAT YOU CANNOT GET IT RUNNING, HOWEVER WE WOULD, YOU DIDN'T AFFORD THE TRSNSORT FOR FREE MAPPING, EVEN THOUGH MAPPING WILL COST YOU MORE THAN THE FUEL. PERHAPS I SHOULD OF TURNED AWAY YOUR BUSINESS WHEN I REALISED THAT YOU SHOWED THE SIGNS OF A PROBLEMATIC CUSTOMER. NO MONEY, WANTING IT ALL FOR NOTHING, AND ABOVE ALL BLAMING US FOR THE STUPIDITY OF LOADING AN EDIS MAP.... HO HUM LIVE AND LEARN. APOLOG
ISE TO EVERYONE ELSE FOR ME WHO CALLS WITH AN ISSUE, AS I WILL BE TOO BUSY DEALING WITH RACE CARS, THAT LOW AND BEHOLD WE GET RUNNING. LOOK AT THAT I ANSWERED AN EMAIL OUT OF HOURS? AM I SLIPPING ALREADY? MUST EITHER BE MY LOVE OF HORSES OR MY LONG ATTITUDE..
Sent from my HTC



----- Reply message -----
From: "Richard
Date: Sat, Dec 18, 2010 13:24
Subject: MTECH ECU
To: "'Matthew Thorne'" <Matthew.Thorne@mtechautomotive.co.uk>

Matt,



I have thought long and hard about your email, and sought some professional
advice. It’s not unfair at all. I am merely exercising my consumer rights
to return something that has never worked in the first place, or rather;



• Is of unsatisfactory quality when purchased, with covers missing
and without instructions

• Is not as originally described as a “New” item found in your
“Secret Stash of new units” when on my way to collect

• Is not fit for purpose, as I cannot (nor can anyone else) get this
ECU running on my car



I bought this from you as an item that had been “Removed from a bike engine
grass track racer”, and without a service which was a surprise to me when I
arrived. When I asked you if had any facilities to test them at your
workshop there, you said no, so how do you know it was working fully when
you sold it to me.



Just because you offer a lifetime warranty, doesn’t preclude you from
liability or returns, it merely states your voluntary commitment to repair
at any time in its life.



To be honest, I feel let down, ripped off and so angry at your last email,
regardless of trying to keep up relations. I am more than happy to share
the positives of our experience with others, though these are now somewhat a
distant memory. When I drove the 150 miles each way to come and see you, I
thought I was dealing with a bona-fide business, not a cowboy outfit. It is
admirable that you have managed to build a business as large as yours off
the back of someone else’s technology, however hope that you realise it
could be so much bigger with more of a customer focus.



Richard.



From: Matthew Thorne [mailto:Matthew.Thorne@mtechautomotive.co.uk]
Sent: 16 December 2010 10:17
To: Richard
Subject: RE: MTECH ECU



Richard,



You broke the unit, and want to send it back, despite the fact there our
warranty means a unit should never be sent back?



If you buya TV from currys, break it, they replace it, you cant then send
it back becuase your old tv started working again?



Rather unfair I think!!



Cheers


Matthew Thorne BSc, MEng (Loughborough)

Managing Director

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Andybarbet
Does this :

* Anyone part of a group pertaning to 'lo-cost', as these seem to be the most troublesome, perhaps they should stick to build it yourself megsauirt V2.2s and EDIS modules and all sorts of scrap, to aid their quest for this 'lo-cost' vehicle.


Mean you will no longer deal with people from this site ?

I am going to be in the market for a megasquirt type ecu next year for my zetec with gsxr throttle bodies and just want to know whether to knock M Tech off my options list or not ?

---

Ok...so now we have had the story and respective responses, both previous and current.

(And a clarification on Andy's recent question.)

Could you both (Richard and Matt) now communicate to a conclusion between yourselves, as with the greatest of respect
none of us were there at the time.

This thread is now closed.

Fozzie........Admin

[Edited on 18-12-10 by Fozzie]