A lot in the press about the horror of the Grenfell fire disaster and how the cladding turned a small domestic fire into a national disaster but there is a lack of coverage in the press about how fire started a firdge explosion. I had never heard of a domestic fridge exploding but it turns out modern fridges can explode, the reason is modern eco-friendly fridges use Isobutane as the refridgerant. The refridgerant can leak as a gas and accumulate in the confined space inside the fridge, open the fridge door the light switch is activated causing spark BOOM!
Welcome to the world we have created.
Yes, removal of CFC's and other (variously halogenated variants) has become the focus of environmental zealots. Problem is, they're
extremely good at what they do. Damn good refrigerants, extinguishing mediums and useful for blowing foams (yes, another can of isocyanate worms).
Thing is, the environmental zealots are always joyous that things have been removed/banned but rarely seem to consider the 'cons' of
replacement.
But yes, explosive/flammable refrigerants pumped by a 240V compressor (made by the lowest bidder) cooling a box 24/7 that's insulated with
polyisocyanurates.
Plenty of examples of this, lead in petrol, electric cars, biomass etc., etc.
Whether it's all done for the sake of job creation, money making (the usual) or out of a misguided brainwashing by the misinformed liberatarians,
or some other aim, from a purely scientific viewpoint (yes, I am one) it's often nonsensical.
Given that Which have been chasing Hotpoint over their combustible fridges and freezers for ages, I'm surprised more has not been made of this.
Further, what about the fire service advise "in the event of fire stay in your flat/apartment and we'll come and get you" - How can
anyone imagine that to be good advise. In a commercial building the advise is get out as soon as you hear the fire alarm which must be tested weekly
and audible all over the building. High rise commercial properties must have sprinklers.
Now then, with 270 flats in Grenfell tower and lets say 4 occupants per flat and 90% flats occupied that's 972 people potentially yet less than
100 accounted for in total - Maybe the cladding is being used as a cover up in more ways then one!
quote:
Originally posted by motorcycle_mayhem
Welcome to the world we have created.
Yes, removal of CFC's and other (variously halogenated variants) has become the focus of environmental zealots. Problem is, they're extremely good at what they do. Damn good refrigerants, extinguishing mediums and useful for blowing foams (yes, another can of isocyanate worms). Thing is, the environmental zealots are always joyous that things have been removed/banned but rarely seem to consider the 'cons' of replacement.
But yes, explosive/flammable refrigerants pumped by a 240V compressor (made by the lowest bidder) cooling a box 24/7 that's insulated with polyisocyanurates.
Plenty of examples of this, lead in petrol, electric cars, biomass etc., etc.
Whether it's all done for the sake of job creation, money making (the usual) or out of a misguided brainwashing by the misinformed liberatarians, or some other aim, from a purely scientific viewpoint (yes, I am one) it's often nonsensical.
probably far less dangerous than the gas hobs and ovens used for decades
look up washing machine spider corrosion for real scary pics for potential appliance disaster...
ours has just failed after only a few years normal use, fortunately I checked to see what was going on rather than ignore it
quote:
Originally posted by motorcycle_mayhem
Welcome to the world we have created.
Yes, removal of CFC's and other (variously halogenated variants) has become the focus of environmental zealots. Problem is, they're extremely good at what they do. Damn good refrigerants, extinguishing mediums and useful for blowing foams (yes, another can of isocyanate worms). Thing is, the environmental zealots are always joyous that things have been removed/banned but rarely seem to consider the 'cons' of replacement.
But yes, explosive/flammable refrigerants pumped by a 240V compressor (made by the lowest bidder) cooling a box 24/7 that's insulated with polyisocyanurates.
Plenty of examples of this, lead in petrol, electric cars, biomass etc., etc.
Whether it's all done for the sake of job creation, money making (the usual) or out of a misguided brainwashing by the misinformed liberatarians, or some other aim, from a purely scientific viewpoint (yes, I am one) it's often nonsensical.
quote:
Originally posted by chillis
Given that Which have been chasing Hotpoint over their combustible fridges and freezers for ages, I'm surprised more has not been made of this. Further, what about the fire service advise "in the event of fire stay in your flat/apartment and we'll come and get you" - How can anyone imagine that to be good advise. In a commercial building the advise is get out as soon as you hear the fire alarm which must be tested weekly and audible all over the building. High rise commercial properties must have sprinklers.
Now then, with 270 flats in Grenfell tower and lets say 4 occupants per flat and 90% flats occupied that's 972 people potentially yet less than 100 accounted for in total - Maybe the cladding is being used as a cover up in more ways then one!
The Grenfell fire shows the leasons lfrom the 1973 Summerland fire on the I.O.M have been forgotten. About every 3 years we have a fire or other
disaster or major incident that causes a high level inquiry and a complete rethink of regulations and codes of practice, but in the end are we any
safer? Not only it seems not, as one danger is dealt with another emerges but very quickly the leasons from previous tragedies are forgotten.
On the subject of Trump and Trump like politicians the series BrainDead on Amazon TV is worth watching -- very funny.
quote:
Originally posted by motorcycle_mayhem
Welcome to the world we have created.
Yes, removal of CFC's and other (variously halogenated variants) has become the focus of environmental zealots. Problem is, they're extremely good at what they do. Damn good refrigerants, extinguishing mediums and useful for blowing foams (yes, another can of isocyanate worms). Thing is, the environmental zealots are always joyous that things have been removed/banned but rarely seem to consider the 'cons' of replacement.
But yes, explosive/flammable refrigerants pumped by a 240V compressor (made by the lowest bidder) cooling a box 24/7 that's insulated with polyisocyanurates.
Plenty of examples of this, lead in petrol, electric cars, biomass etc., etc.
Whether it's all done for the sake of job creation, money making (the usual) or out of a misguided brainwashing by the misinformed liberatarians, or some other aim, from a purely scientific viewpoint (yes, I am one) it's often nonsensical.
Everyone one is wise after the fact but the bottom line is this is due to money and the selfish gene.
We do the best we can to give us and our close family the best chances of surviving. That is why there are more SUV type cars on the roads, I
can't see that a 12 inch ground clearance is really necessary for the weekly Waitrose shop but having more metal around you and more space around
you so extra air bags can be fitted will improve your chances of survival in a crash and nutsack to the occupants in the other car.
Having more police, firemen, nurses, better equipped hostipals etc is all fine and dandy until you have to pay for it, then it's a case of
"Well, you know my house isn't likely to burn down and as I'm healthy right now, then I'd rather not pay for hospitals that I do
not need thnk you very much".
Regarding the tower blocks, more expensive cladding could have been used but is anyone here volunteering to pay for it? No, and there is nothing
wrong with that, it is the selfish gene at work - you'd rather spend the money on yourself/close family than on total strangers. And does it
stop there?
There was something in the web about sprinklers were going to fitted to Grenfell but the majority of residents did not want it due to the disruption
and presumably would be an increase in rent. So its a trade off to help the majority i.e. council tax payers at the cost of the minority i.e.in this
case the residents. I doubt very much the council that proposes to hike up council tax to pay for the recladding, sprinklers system, more fire
engines and fire personal would get voted in.
Of course the major reason the cladding is on high rise buildings anyway is to protect the environment. It's there to improve thermal efficiency
and help combat climate change. Corbyn was correct in that these people died as a result of political decisions, however the politics of his party are
just as responsible as any. The argument about creating a safer healthier world is all smoke and mirrors anyway. Climate change, waste in the oceans,
animal extinctions perpetual warfare , migrants refugees etc, etc. They all have one cause and that is over population of the planet by one species
and that no one is prepared to tackle. It is much easier to focus on the symptoms and ignore the problem. That's my lot as a profit of doom for
the week.
Mick
quote:
Originally posted by minibull
Of course the major reason the cladding is on high rise buildings anyway is to protect the environment. It's there to improve thermal efficiency and help combat climate change. Corbyn was correct in that these people died as a result of political decisions, however the politics of his party are just as responsible as any. The argument about creating a safer healthier world is all smoke and mirrors anyway. Climate change, waste in the oceans, animal extinctions perpetual warfare , migrants refugees etc, etc. They all have one cause and that is over population of the planet by one species and that no one is prepared to tackle. It is much easier to focus on the symptoms and ignore the problem. That's my lot as a profit of doom for the week.
Mick
quote:
Originally posted by minibull
Of course the major reason the cladding is on high rise buildings anyway is to protect the environment. It's there to improve thermal efficiency and help combat climate change.
Mick