chrisg
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| posted on 26/3/09 at 09:34 AM |
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All very good points and I agree to a certain extent, it just seems to me that over the last ten years some sort of consensus on what is, and is not,
acceptable should have been found.
Do the testers meet up or have a feedback system - perhaps Andy can tell us?
I don't think it's too big a task to make a set of guidelines in simple terms, maybe as a FAQ maintained by VOSA.
For example.
Q. Can I use a removable steering wheel?
A. Well we can't answer that one but maybe VOSA can!
The new regulations seem to me to be an ideal opportunity to put something in place that helps people to know what the standard is.
Cheers
Chris 
Note to all: I really don't know when to leave well alone. I tried to get clever with the mods, then when they gave me a lifeline to see the
error of my ways, I tried to incite more trouble via u2u. So now I'm banned, never to return again. They should have done it years ago!
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DarrenW
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| posted on 26/3/09 at 09:59 AM |
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We are all thinking the same Chris, but i just dont think its going to happen. Unfortunately grey areas are a part of life. MOT's have been
around longer than SVA and they still provide a source of discussion on interpretation.
My understanding was that the senior SVA guys do pass suggestions and engage in discussion. It is probably fair to say that there are less grey areas
now than there used to be. Problem is that as parts that were once the exclusive domain of the wealthier race teams are becoming the norm in our
builds (ie QR steering hubs, digi dashes etc) the tests will always have new grey areas and need to evolve.
If we were all focussed on easily passing the test, we would have a long running thread by now on how to keep out of the grey zone. In this thread the
subject of steering would simply read - use the full OE type approved system as old Henry etc intended. (except they look naff so we dont).
At least we have the opportunity to pass such a test. Im thankful for that.
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adithorp
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| posted on 26/3/09 at 01:41 PM |
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Andy, can I just say how we apprieciate your comments...well I do anyway.
I think the manual rules regarding removable wheels are clear that, when interpreted/declared as a security device, you can't have one as it can
be removed with the engine running. Now if you had a micro-switch that cut the engine first..? What happens if you've got 2 other mathods of
security and don't claim it as a security device (just to get in easier)?
The rules on steering wheels is also clear;
i, from a type approved vehicle,
ii, type approved with proof,
iii, giving equivilent protection to a type approved one.
That last bit is the gray bit and imposible for the tester to know, so you fail.
Any that have passed have just been lucky (or not if something goes wrong).
As for black and white rules; Most of the moaning regarding fails is about radius rules and they are very clear (if long winded) leaving little room
for interpretation.
adrian
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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iiyama
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| posted on 26/3/09 at 07:31 PM |
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I can remove the ignition key in any production vehicle while driving. Now I cant do that accidently, Ill grant you. However I cant do it accidently
with the removable wheel system I have either.
[Edited on 26/3/09 by iiyama]
If its broke, fix it. If it aint broke, take it apart and find out how it works!
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adithorp
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| posted on 26/3/09 at 08:39 PM |
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...but the rule says that a mechanical device cannot be activated with the engine still running or the engine started while it is activated. Not that
it cant be set while driving.
adrian
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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iiyama
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| posted on 26/3/09 at 09:04 PM |
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you cant turn the ignition key in any car with the engine running then??
If its broke, fix it. If it aint broke, take it apart and find out how it works!
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NS Dev
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| posted on 26/3/09 at 10:48 PM |
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Good answers everywhere, but never saw the question asked directly, have you still got the original steering lock built into the column, and the
original key to turn on the igniion (though not to operate the starter)??
If so, there's your two.
Why do people make their lives difficult when a donor steering column makes it so easy! (and no I didn't use a sierra one as I hate all the
plastic, but other donors exist! )
[Edited on 26/3/09 by NS Dev]
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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Ninehigh
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| posted on 27/3/09 at 01:00 AM |
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Maybe in regard to parts like this there should be guidelines set up with the manufacturers, therefore any parts we buy are marked "Road
legal" or "Race legal" and then there'll be no ambiguity.
I'm sure there are very set guidelines for build quality issues i.e. nothing sticking out which could cut someone's leg off
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iiyama
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| posted on 27/3/09 at 07:21 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by andys101
quote:
Originally posted by iiyama
you cant turn the ignition key in any car with the engine running then??
Not without turning the engine off....
Ok fair point but your stilll going to straight to the scene of the accident! Key out, engine off, steering lock on........bump! My point being that
99% of people wont be stupid enough to pull the key out while moving, conversly 99% of people wont be stupid enough to remove the sterring wheel even
if the option exists!
If its broke, fix it. If it aint broke, take it apart and find out how it works!
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TimC
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| posted on 27/3/09 at 04:17 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
Good answers everywhere, but never saw the question asked directly, have you still got the original steering lock built into the column, and the
original key to turn on the igniion (though not to operate the starter)??
No.
quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
Why do people make their lives difficult when a donor steering column makes it so easy! (and no I didn't use a sierra one as I hate all the
plastic, but other donors exist! )
Because:
1. The car was not initially intended to see the road.
2. The MNR is designed to use the Sierra column so if you don't want the plastic, you lose the barrel etc.
3. Its not necessary if you install something else.
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Ninehigh
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| posted on 27/3/09 at 06:28 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by iiyama
My point being that 99% of people wont be stupid enough to pull the key out while moving, conversly 99% of people wont be stupid enough to remove the
sterring wheel even if the option exists!
True but it's that 1% that this government panders to... This packet of roasted nuts may contain nuts anyone?
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iiyama
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| posted on 27/3/09 at 07:54 PM |
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Exactamundo!  Always legislating for the minority, not the majority.
If its broke, fix it. If it aint broke, take it apart and find out how it works!
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adithorp
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| posted on 27/3/09 at 09:15 PM |
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...but if you could start the car independant of releasing the steering lock, how many people would set off with the steering still locked?
Thats why the rules are the way they are.
Over the years I've had several customers attempt to tow a car without turning the key and had the wheel lock on them.
adrian
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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Ninehigh
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| posted on 27/3/09 at 09:17 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by adithorp
...but if you could start the car independant of releasing the steering lock, how many people would set off with the steering still locked?
Thats why the rules are the way they are.
Over the years I've had several customers attempt to tow a car without turning the key and had the wheel lock on them.
adrian
There are some things anyone could do, but then you'll only do it once!
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