Stuart Walker
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| posted on 24/5/06 at 12:32 PM |
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Front Brake Hoses - Braided only??
From what I've seen on here, no-one seems to use standard flexible hoses on the front... Is this because braided ones are a requirement for SVA,
or just we reckon they're better?
What about the back, what has anyone used there?
Cheers!
Stu
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 24/5/06 at 12:38 PM |
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Standard rubber hoses are type-approved, last for ages, and easily available. They also tend to inflate slightly when pressure is applied, making the
pedal feel a bit soft.
Braided hoses are often not type-approved, can wear out quicker then rubber ones (mostly due to broken braid puncturing the inner teflon hose -
that's why they don't get approved) and rarely available off the shelf. Builders fit them because they don't inflate, making the
pedal feel very good.
The main difference is that commercial rubber hoses are designed to be fit-and-forget to a certain extent and to be left on a car for 50,000 miles,
whilst braided hoses need to be checked periodically.
David
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iank
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| posted on 24/5/06 at 12:50 PM |
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In addition to David's points:
Rubber hoses can also be clamped while working on the brakes.
Braided, because they are ordered bespoke, don't require finding a donor with the right end fittings and the correct length.
Be careful what you order. As the braided hoses that use the screw together fittings with an olive inside have been failing SVA with some testers.
The swaged end ones are fine I believe.
See this thread: http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=44319
[edited to clarify that it's only some testers that seem to have been failing the built up braided hoses]
[Edited on 24/5/06 by iank]
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02GF74
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| posted on 24/5/06 at 12:56 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Stuart Walker
From what I've seen on here, no-one seems to use standard flexible hoses on the front...
err, I've got them on mine. But that is only becuase it came like that; I would have fitted braided 
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NS Dev
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| posted on 24/5/06 at 01:10 PM |
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I've fitted braided because:
1) I can make them the EXACT length that they need to be
2) I can make them with EXACTLY the end fittings I need (i.e. swivel 3/8 UNF on the front to go to 3/8 unf>1/8 NPT adaptors on the calipers
3) They are, like the budgie...Cheap!!
4) They give better pedal feel
5) They look better
6) They "should" pass SVA (the olive type ones with a sleeve inside the olive are expressly "OK'd" within the manual,
and the Euroquip fittings sold by Rally Design are of that type)
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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britishtrident
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| posted on 24/5/06 at 02:29 PM |
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Standard hoses are by far the most suitable for a road car.
It is true they are more elastic in the engineering sense of the word but not anything like as much as the saloon bar experts will have you believe.
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RazMan
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| posted on 24/5/06 at 02:33 PM |
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Braided all the way for me (literally all the way from m/c to calipers)
Just one tip - If you have the type which has the braiding on the outside, put a covering of clear heatshrink over them before fitting. Mr SVA reckons
they are too abrasive without this covering and will probably fail you.
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 24/5/06 at 02:43 PM |
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My only concern is that the front hoses are very exposed - I have assumed that the braided hoses are more likely to survive stones, etc. but I have no
evidence to support that theory, and ordinary hoses get just as much abuse, even under a wheel arch.
In the end, it's little more than bling. Mr Average Driver wouldn't notice the difference in pedal feel...
As for the outside braiding - I have read in several places that the braid makes a really good file when in contact with vital stuff like petrol hose,
cables, and so on.
David
[Edited on 24/5/06 by David Jenkins]
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sebastiaan
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| posted on 24/5/06 at 06:16 PM |
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I've got landrover front hoses on mine....
landy hoses link
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Peteff
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| posted on 24/5/06 at 07:26 PM |
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They also tend to inflate slightly when pressure is applied, making the pedal feel a bit soft.
Tosh and piffle. I have Granada ones on mine, they perform perfectly well and cost £4 each when I fitted them 5 years ago. If I had Wilwoods and all
the bling I would be tempted to swap them but otherwise they stay.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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Gav
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| posted on 24/5/06 at 09:19 PM |
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When i had my bike (KR-1S) i fitted braided hoses and the difference in feel was unbelivable! with a bike though your probably more likely to feel
small differences with your hand more than a foot actuated lever...
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NS Dev
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| posted on 24/5/06 at 10:15 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
My only concern is that the front hoses are very exposed - I have assumed that the braided hoses are more likely to survive stones, etc. but I have no
evidence to support that theory, and ordinary hoses get just as much abuse, even under a wheel arch.
In the end, it's little more than bling. Mr Average Driver wouldn't notice the difference in pedal feel...
As for the outside braiding - I have read in several places that the braid makes a really good file when in contact with vital stuff like petrol hose,
cables, and so on.
David
[Edited on 24/5/06 by David Jenkins]
Unusually I would have to disagree based on experience David.
The hoses on the front of my grasser get an unbelievable pummelling from stones (ones that will go clean through 18swg half hard ally and return the
chassis to a bare metal shotblasted finish after a few laps in the main areas of impact) but they have survived totally intact with not a mark on
them.
Also the difference in pedal feel IS VERY SIGNIFICANT.
Anybody who says it is not must not have used them. The best illustration of this was on our old sierra road rally car. (and before anybody says, yes
we changed the fluid with the old hoses only one event prior to changing the hoses) the pedal travel was roughly 1/2 to 2/3 of what it was with rubber
hoses. The sierra has 6 lines which doesn't help but even so it makes a hell of a difference.
I also pointed out that braided hoses are relatively cheap at roughly £7 a corner made up, and the lengths can be made perfect, which is not the case
with rubber ones.
I will accept the one criticism of braided lines which is the braid can crack and then move and puncture the inner, but I have never seen it happen in
a fair few years of building road cars with this type of hose on it doing pretty reasonable mileage (20,000 on a couple of the cars involved)
The comments about rubber hoses being fit and forget are also ill founded. The crimped ends are prone to corrosion, which can then release the crimp
with serious consequences, and so should be regularly (annually at the MOT) checked.
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 25/5/06 at 07:37 AM |
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I was talking about Mr Average in a road car - a decent driver in a competition car wants every advantage he can get.
But, saying all that, I have braided hoses for every flexible connection on my Locost! 
David
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