focijohn
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| posted on 11/2/09 at 09:07 PM |
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Restrictions on my licence
Bit miffed as to why my licence has so many restriction on it as to what i can and cant drive, and why i have to take a seperate test to do so i.e.
3.5 tonne vans and trailers over 750kg (i think) i know i cant tow caravans.
Why do i have to take a seperate test to "update" my licence to allow me to drive these compared to someone who was driving before this
was bought in (2001?).
Is this just another government money maker or is there good reasoning behind this?
I've looked on all of the .gov web sites but all that does is leave me with more questions than answers.
The reason i ask is i think that it would be a useful asset for me to have in the future.
If anyone could tell me what i can legaly tow i would be greatful.
I'm 20 and took my test 3 years ago.
John
Anyone going slower than you is an idiot. Anyone going faster than you is a maniac.
Too many targets but too few bullets.
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JoelP
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| posted on 11/2/09 at 09:15 PM |
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you arent allowed to tow heavy trailers because you havent been trained how to do it, which is what the DSA thinks is necessary, rightly or wrongly.
People who passed before 1997 can simply because standards were less then.
FWIW, we cant drive minibuses either!
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blakep82
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| posted on 11/2/09 at 09:18 PM |
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don't get me wrong, it annoys me too  but imagine the peopl who passed a test in a mini, and then were allowed to drive 7.5 ton trucks, or
heavy trailers without any training. doesn't seem right does it?
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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focijohn
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| posted on 11/2/09 at 09:27 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
you arent allowed to tow heavy trailers because you havent been trained how to do it, which is what the DSA thinks is necessary, rightly or wrongly.
People who passed before 1997 can simply because standards were less then.
FWIW, we cant drive minibuses either!
FWIW??
Standards were less then but shouldnt everyone be bought upto simalar standards?? Whos to say im more of a risk behind the wheel of a 4tonner than my
dad or my neighbour??? I know i wouldnt want most of the older people around here drving big vans half of them cant drive cars, not that half of them
would but thats not my point.....
And what is classed as heavy because i know my neighbours are not the most competant people behind the wheel but they are allowed to tow caravans etc.
And ok im not sh1t hot at reversing but i can do it and have..... and without blowing my own trumpet i think im reasonably good at towing and altho
not up to the standards of someone who goes caravaning every year or moves heavy loads by trailers all day but i know i drive more cautiously when
towing no matter what it is than any other time.
[Edited on 11/2/09 by focijohn]
Anyone going slower than you is an idiot. Anyone going faster than you is a maniac.
Too many targets but too few bullets.
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BenB
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| posted on 11/2/09 at 09:30 PM |
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Having driven a Luton Van I'm quite happy that that's as big as people with my type of license can drive without special training!! It was
blooming massive!!!!
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matt_claydon
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| posted on 11/2/09 at 09:34 PM |
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The new rules make sense, but it would be unreasonable to apply them to people who got their licences before the changes as it may stop them doing
something they've been doing for years and/or remove their livlihood.
It's no different to new safety or emissions standards for vehicles. They apply to new cars but you're not expected to upgrade your old
car to meet new standards.
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Paul TigerB6
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| posted on 11/2/09 at 09:36 PM |
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I have an LGV class 2 licence having taken my test about a year ago and was training to drive a class 1. The truck and trailer i was learning in was
only a few cm short of the maximum permissible in the UK of 18.5m long!! Damn right in my eyes that they tightened the rules in rather than just
letting a new driver lose in 7.5tons of truck or out with a trailer which takes some learning to reverse properly
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focijohn
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| posted on 11/2/09 at 09:45 PM |
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I agree with 7.5 being excessive, but why not a twin wheel tranit for example. Ive driven one and yes its slightly harder being bigger but thats only
in smaller areas, you've just got to take note of your surroundings or get a banksman if your not confident.
Does anyone know how much the tests are to get my licence upgraded to be able to drive something UPTO 7tonne? Also a "heavy" trailer?
[Edited on 11/2/09 by focijohn]
Anyone going slower than you is an idiot. Anyone going faster than you is a maniac.
Too many targets but too few bullets.
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Jason Fletcher
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| posted on 11/2/09 at 09:54 PM |
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John
this subject is a nighmare. I work in the caravan industry and what you can tow is not as cut a dry as the little pics on the back show. You can tow
a caravan but only up to a gross train weight of... can't remember. here's what to do, phone the caravan Club (a bit sad I know but...)
and tell them you are thinking of getting into caravanning and ask them what you can tow. They will give you a definative answer without any B.S.
Anyway just for a laugh heres a cut and paste from the goverments website on the matter. This a a company that promotes the "Plain English
" campaign. Funny as you like and I really can't see what confused you about this
QUOTE
In general, an additional driving test is required for each category or subcategory of entitlement. But there are certain exceptions to this where
drivers have already passed one test which involves trailer entitlement for a larger or equivalent sized vehicle.
This means that passing a test for subcategory C1+E or D1+E upgrades category B entitlement to B+E. A test pass for subcategory C1+E upgrades
subcategory D1, if held, to D1+E. But a test pass for subcategory D1+E does not upgrade subcategory C1 to C1+E because the trailer size required for a
subcategory D1+E test is smaller than that required for a subcategory C1+E test.
Passing a test for category C+E upgrades category B entitlement to B+E and also confers entitlement to subcategory C1 and C1+E and, if category D or
subcategory D1 is held, these are upgraded to category D+E or subcategory D1+E. A test passed for category D+E upgrades category B and subcategory D1
to category B+E and subcategory D1+E respectively. But it does not upgrade category C or subcategory C1 entitlements because the trailer size required
for a category D+E test is smaller than that required for a category C+E or subcategory C1+E test.
QUOTE
what a load of bo11ocks
jason
[Edited on 11/2/09 by Jason Fletcher]
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focijohn
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| posted on 11/2/09 at 09:56 PM |
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Its like maths all over again 
Anyone going slower than you is an idiot. Anyone going faster than you is a maniac.
Too many targets but too few bullets.
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vinny1275
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| posted on 11/2/09 at 10:01 PM |
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The standards change - think about all the oldies on the road who've never taken a test! I think that it's a good thing you need to take a
test in a 7.5 tonner (I've got an old license so I can drive one - without any training or anything, so I'd think twice about doing it!)
As for the costs, the major cost in truck training is the hire of the truck. If you know someone who can loan you a truck (we all know someone who
can, surely?) and sit in with you with L plates on, it would be a load cheaper.
Not sure about trailer tests, but I imagine it's pretty much the same...
HTH
Vince
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Dangle_kt
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| posted on 11/2/09 at 10:05 PM |
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its not as nuts as a real old guy who can drive pretty much anything becuase he "passed" before there was even a test.
My dads motorcycle test involved riding round the block, and becuase he didn;t crash whilst being observed - he passed!
Its tougher on people who are younger, but in fairness the roads are A LOT busier now, and 7.5 tonnes is a bit of beast by all accounts.
I was planning on passing my HGV licence the other year - I didnt in the end, but I'm sure its only something like £600 inclusive of training
and the test.
Not bad considering you can make reasonable money at it as a job.
EDIT - its gone up!
here is a link to a NW school - not sure if its anygood but might be some food for thought:
http://www.trucktraininguk.com/truck-training-fees.html
[Edited on 11/2/09 by Dangle_kt]
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gazzarose
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| posted on 11/2/09 at 10:05 PM |
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Im 23 (was 21 when I started my Job, passed my test 5 yrs ago so after '97) and work for a boat sales place. We have to deliver boats around the
place upto 3.5 t gross. Twas really annoying when I first started there, cos I've been reversing boats and trailers in the palce where my dad
keeps his boat since I was 15, but Im not allowed to tow anthing more than 750kg. My boss put me through my B+E (car and heavy trailer), and to
behonest they don't teach you anything. They teach you how to pass the test ands that is (i failed the first 2 times,fist cos he land rover lwb
I did the test in didn't have enough lock to chase around the tiny poxy trailer, and the second I failed cos of nerves, but passed the 3rd
time). To be honest I think it should be a course rather than a test, cos you can be the best driver in the world, but if you get too nervous you
might fail. Thing is, it came in in '97, so assuming most people pass their test at 17, theres alot of 30-32 yr old, who've got young
kids, who are at that ago where people by caravans for family holidays, not knowing that you need a license. Its just not publisised enough. IMHO you
only learn to tow a trailer by towing a trailer for hours up and down the M4, or by reversing them alot. We've got a trailer in work thats about
30'ft long, and behind our landrover is nearly as long as an artic. And always remember that an artic is technically easier to reverse than a
limo with a little trailer,lol.
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focijohn
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| posted on 11/2/09 at 10:22 PM |
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Thats a very good point gaz. Its a bit like moving the driving test age up, its not going to resolve the problem mearly move it along, because at the
end of the day its still an inexperianced driver behind the wheel regardless of the age. Is it like the car test that we all know and love i.e. go
around towing a trailer with L plates on? Or is it different?
Anyone going slower than you is an idiot. Anyone going faster than you is a maniac.
Too many targets but too few bullets.
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Paul TigerB6
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| posted on 11/2/09 at 10:23 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Dangle_ktI was planning on passing my HGV licence the other year - I didnt in the end, but I'm sure its only
something like £600 inclusive of training and the test.
Not bad considering you can make reasonable money at it as a job.
EDIT - its gone up!
here is a link to a NW school - not sure if its anygood but might be some food for thought:
http://www.trucktraininguk.com/truck-training-fees.html
[Edited on 11/2/09 by Dangle_kt]
Yup - i am going to be paying around £1000 for a week's training to try and get my class 1. Financial Services is a joke at the moment so wont
get a job in that now so i am actually looking to sell my tintop to fund the class 1 training!! (I better pass this time!!). At least i have contacts
and a company who will probably take me on if i get it
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gazzarose
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| posted on 11/2/09 at 11:08 PM |
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You turn up in your car, they stick this poxy little 1 ton twin axle box trailer on the back and you do hill starts and reversing into the box and
stuff. They keep changing it aswell. When another guy who used to work for us a yr before did the test, he did it with an empty boat trailer so you
can see over the top when ur reversing. Now it has to be a box trailer (they've changed it with hgvs trailers aswell) and theres word
they're thinking of changing it again so that the back window of the vehicle has to blacked out. They keep moving the goal posts. I've got
to the point now where I can reverse any trailer anywhere pretty much mostly without a banksman. You have to learn to remember where the gap was and
if there are any obstructions before you block the view with the trailer. I really do think there should be a big section of loading the trailer. All
they say is load it evenly with the weight over the axles. Its all very well with a box trailer with a wardrobe in it, but with a 2 ton boat with a
cabin at the front and abig v8 at the back, on a 1 ton 27ft trailer with all your gear on and a full tank of full the weight distribution moves around
alot. Red bull and pro plus is redundant when you driving up the motorway with a boat swinging around behind you, really gets ur pulse going.
I've seen some really badly loaded caravan and trailers, some with zero or -ve weight on the tow ball cos they're trying to save the cars
suspension, and others (talk about a little bit of knowlege is dangerous) putting as much weight on the tow ball as they can, with the front wheels of
the car trying to leave the ground. We always try to put enough weight forward on the trailer so we can just about pick it up, so by the time
customers put all their crap on board and a full tank of full there's a nice steadying weight on the tow ball to give direction to the trailer.
I've heard nastys from our companies past of over loaded trailers, that were badly loaded, swinging the land rover across both lanes of a dual
cariage way, twas lucky 2 lorries blocked the traffic behind it to allow it to slow down.
Its surprising the difference weight makes. People don't think now cos cars are getting more powerful, but its not the moving thats the problem,
its the control and slowing down. A fully loaded Luton is a big brute to stop from 70 in an emergancy stop. So once you get into 7.5 tonners thing
multiply. It's not just a case of it being a giant car, your in control of something thats potenially a lethal weapon, and if you havn't
been trained to think that extra bit ahead, bad things can happen.
Gaz
(ps i just realised Im waffling a bit, but please forgive me, I've have a few drink,lol)
[Edited on 11/2/09 by gazzarose]
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dhutch
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| posted on 12/2/09 at 12:00 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by matt_claydon
The new rules make sense, but it would be unreasonable to apply them to people who got their licences before the changes as it may stop them doing
something they've been doing for years and/or remove their livlihood.
Thats basicaly is isnt it.
- I would rather take the test, than had a ditsy blond on a catb take a lutonbody van into the side of me.
To me the only problem is that, becuase the +E is accutally really quite a powerfull thing (becuase it also entials you to a D+E if you then get a
catd, etc) then its actaully £250 and a day of work minimum. And theres basicaly only about three people in the country who seam to even be offering
the test.
Daniel
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Davey D
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| posted on 12/2/09 at 10:01 AM |
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Here is the official line of towing a trailer i the UK
http://www.dvla.gov.uk/media/pdf/leaflets/inf30.pdf
looking at what it says i can tow a trailer of more than 750kg as long as the pulling vehicle is upto spec, and i dont go over the MAM
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FEZ1025
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| posted on 16/2/09 at 06:31 PM |
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Sorry to raise this again, but was just thinking today as you do stuck in a traffic jam. If you have only recently taken your test so do not have the
trailer entitlement on, can you tow a broken down vehicle on a tow rope?
Alan...
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mad-butcher
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| posted on 17/2/09 at 04:55 PM |
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As I understand it you can't tow anything on a rope must be straight bar tow.
I'm that old I just missed getting a class 1 under the old grandfather rules.
I actualy passed my test in a mini and drive seven and a half for a living. but for the life of me can't reverse a trailer. The law was brought
in due to the fact people who had never driven a large vehicle (my number key is broke between 6 and 8) could go out and rent one to move house and
remove the mirrors and wings of anything parked in there way.
Paul Tigerb6 plenty of work for class 1 around you but no-one is prepared to give you a start without experience, it's catch 22, did you get
caught up in that burst watermain on the 53 by vauxhalls last week. I went through it at 4am it was 3 foot deep and there was a bloke sitting on his
roof waiting to be towed out, came out of it in my truck and promptly went broadside as the water had frozen were it had splashed up the motorway,
defo clean underwear time.
tony
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FEZ1025
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| posted on 17/2/09 at 05:33 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mad-butcher
As I understand it you can't tow anything on a rope must be straight bar tow.
When did that come in?
Alan...
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mad-butcher
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| posted on 17/2/09 at 06:26 PM |
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A grey area
I was pulled at 3am in a 4.5t VW towing a ford transit and was informed it was illegal and did I have a spare newspaper on board
linky dinky don't
having said that I much prefer a bar as you do the braking and there is no snatch when you pull off
[Edited on 17/2/09 by mad-butcher]
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