ElmrPhD
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| posted on 2/11/12 at 11:55 AM |
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P-clip distance with a twist - literally!
Hi all,
I know that with this group, distance between p-clips for brake lines and fuel lines (150-200 mm/6-8 inches) and harness (300 mm/1 ft) is as redundant
as the dreaded oil thread on other forums and has been discussed ad naseum, but...
Do those suggested distances refer to "as the crow flies" (straight line) or the "flight of the bumblebee" following the
sometimes torturous curves that my brake lines have to follow. Following the curves, it is nearly impossible to keep the distance on my front brake
lines down to 150 mm between p-clips.
I know that it's somewhat subjective and depends on the mood of the IVA official, but does anyone know?
Thanks,
Steve, in the NLs
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loggyboy
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| posted on 2/11/12 at 12:03 PM |
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IIRC the distances for fuel and brakes are not specified, its only worded as 'dequately secure'.
For wiring it is specified as 300mm, and its unlikely to be measured at all, just as long as it looks right.
Best thing is to have them in secure conduit, as again as long as its adequtely secure their is not fixed measurement.
Its just loose cables that are measured. As as things arent loose or likely to catch on anything it will be fine.
[Edited on 2-11-12 by loggyboy]
Mistral Motorsport
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ElmrPhD
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| posted on 2/11/12 at 12:07 PM |
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Yeah - sorry that I was unclear:
My real question is if the SUGGESTED distances (of the brake and fuel lines) refer to straight distance from clip to clip or do those numbers refer to
distance along the curves, too?
But "thanks for playing"!
Cheers,
Steve, in the NLs
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loggyboy
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| posted on 2/11/12 at 12:10 PM |
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That what im saying, there is no suggested measurements, only what people have done before, so its impossbible to say how it can be measured.
Put it this way, if you have a copper line that can be faily easily wobbled to touch part of the chassis or anything else, (without physically
deforming the pipe) then its probably too loose.
Mistral Motorsport
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bi22le
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| posted on 2/11/12 at 12:25 PM |
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If I was running wire \ brake lines and the next distance was right on a curve or weld then I would fix it either side. Surely IVA wont fail for too
many and the extra weight is grams.
The satisfaction of a tidier build and security of lines is far more valuable.
Track days ARE the best thing since sliced bread, until I get a supercharger that is!
Please read my ring story:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/13/viewthread.php?tid=139152&page=1
Me doing a sub 56sec lap around Brands Indy. I need a geo set up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHksfvIGB3I
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blakep82
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| posted on 2/11/12 at 12:57 PM |
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if you go with 300mm round the run of the cable/pipe, then i can't think of a situation where 'as the crow flies' will be a greater
distance, so stick with round the route of the cable, and you can go wrong*
*i think...
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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matt_gsxr
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| posted on 2/11/12 at 01:19 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
if you go with 300mm round the run of the cable/pipe, then i can't think of a situation where 'as the crow flies' will be a greater
distance, so stick with round the route of the cable, and you can go wrong*
*i think...
Unless you are going to be leaving your car close to a black hole then the "crow flies" distance will always be the shortest.
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ElmrPhD
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| posted on 2/11/12 at 01:27 PM |
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Ok, let me re-phrase, again...
... my build has a couple instances where it's p-clip distance exceeds the recommended value if measured around the bends, but would be
considered ok when measured as-the-crow-flies.
Must I re-route (requiring newly-made pipes, which I don't wanna do) or is the as-the-crow-flies measurement what matters to iva?
Thanks
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loggyboy
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| posted on 2/11/12 at 02:11 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ElmrPhD
Must I re-route (requiring newly-made pipes, which I don't wanna do) or is the as-the-crow-flies measurement what matters to iva?
Thanks
NO MEASUREMENTS MATTER TO IVA FOR FUEL/BRAKE LINES....
Mistral Motorsport
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britishtrident
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| posted on 2/11/12 at 02:23 PM |
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As a general rule of thumb a brake pipe vibrates when you twang it with your thumb then it needs more support otherwise no more than 300mm/1ft
Also don't forget the brake pipe clip doesn't have to be mounted directly on the chassis it can be mounted on a bracket attached to the
chassis.
Pclips are not probably the best way to clip brake pipes plastic push in clips which are quick, easy and neat are available as singles, doubles
and as tripe brake pipes + fuel line. You will also find types that stand off 25 mm from the mounting hole and seperator clips designed only to
maintain separation between two pipes.
[Edited on 2/11/12 by britishtrident]
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 2/11/12 at 03:42 PM |
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As a guide - when I put my car through the SVA the tester looked at the P-clips etc quite closely, then grabbed them in various places & tried to
waggle them around. If whatever he waggled touched something else nearby then it probably would have failed.
As said above - distance between clamps doesn't come into the equation - security of whatever's being held is what's tested.
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ElmrPhD
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| posted on 2/11/12 at 03:50 PM |
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Gotcha!
Thanks guys - I will proceed to wiggle...
Cheers,
Steve, in the NLs
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chillis
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| posted on 2/11/12 at 09:48 PM |
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You're not going to fail if you have lots of clips, but not enough and you'll fail due to insufficient security - if they are in awkward
places it could be a pain. If in doubt the 4 to 6 inches should gaurentee you don't fail.
Never under estimate the ingenuity of an idiot!
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britishtrident
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| posted on 3/11/12 at 07:45 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by chillis
You're not going to fail if you have lots of clips, but not enough and you'll fail due to insufficient security - if they are in awkward
places it could be a pain. If in doubt the 4 to 6 inches should gaurentee you don't fail.
You never see a production car with the brake pipes clipped at less than 300mm intervals.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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Rob55
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| posted on 13/11/12 at 03:48 PM |
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My Westfield build manual states 150mm spacing as an SVA requirement. Can't see the harm in it myself, better to be secure than sorry for the
sake of a few extra clips
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britishtrident
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| posted on 13/11/12 at 05:50 PM |
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The IVA is focused on making one off vehicles meet the same standards and practices as production vehicles, proper production style plastic brake
pipe clips spaced as per production car practice won't attract the testers attention. In contrast if the tester sees a straight run of pipe
with the clips spaced at 4"/100mm could well attract attention. As rule if the pipe touches any thing else when prodded or poked or
vibrates like a double base string it is an instant fail. Puka brake pipe clips give the pipe more clearance from the chassis than P Clips they
are also much quicker to fit and make the pipe quick and easy to remove for maintenance.
Land Rover Defender Range Rover Brake Pipe Clips (10) 
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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steve m
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| posted on 13/11/12 at 06:03 PM |
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My neighbour, who built a pilgrim Cobra 10+ years ago, did all his wiring and brake lines, about every 100mm (4"
looked overkill to me, but his response, was that all it cost was probaly an extra 25 rivets and p clips, so the cost was nothing, yet everything WAS
VERY SECURE
if in doubt, and it sounds like you are, i would add more,
It would seriously pee me off if i was to fail IVA, and have to pay for a retest, all over about £2 worth of p clips
steve
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