stig mills
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| posted on 17/6/13 at 10:10 AM |
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IVA manual update
A new version has been issued today.
One point that has changed that may cause issue is in section 18 Statutory Plates page 145, here you will see note 12 has been added. Previously VIN
plates needed to be "not easily removable" now any separate plate must be fully seam welded to comply. Not stitch tack or spot welded.
http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/M1%20IVA%20Inspection%20Manual.pdf
I am informed that IVA inspectors were instructed to fail cars with VIN plates that were not fully seam welded on the 19th December 2012 but the
manual informing builders/manufacturers of this change has only been issued today. I have asked for a grace period but that was refused.
If your VIN is not stamped in to the chassis or on a fully fully seam welded plate it does not now comply, I hope this does not cause anyone any
problems. Regards Stuart
[Edited on 17/6/13 by stig mills]
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loggyboy
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| posted on 17/6/13 at 10:15 AM |
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Loads of revisions in version 9.0!!
[Edited on 17-6-13 by loggyboy]
Mistral Motorsport
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daveb666
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| posted on 17/6/13 at 10:20 AM |
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Great stuff, mine will fail on the VIN now then.
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chrism
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| posted on 17/6/13 at 10:29 AM |
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Am I correct in thinking that this is just the chassis VIN number where it is not stamped directly into the chassis but on a separate plate, and not
what I thought was the VIN plate with the design weights etc. on it.
----------------------------
A little hard work never killed anyone, but why take the risk!
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daveb666
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| posted on 17/6/13 at 10:33 AM |
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I read it as the 'VIN plate' i.e. what you have on the scuttle panel on most factory cars?
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stig mills
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| posted on 17/6/13 at 10:39 AM |
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They have been lenient and allowed welded on VIN plates as apposed to stamped in due to the difficulty of stamping tubs.
The manufacturers plate only needs the manufacturers name (or your name if you made the chassis) and the VIN, weights etc are not required.
There are other rules that apply though such as VIN location and letter size/gaps, so it is best to study the wording in the manual carefully
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daveb666
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| posted on 17/6/13 at 10:47 AM |
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My chassis has a properly stamped in VIN number directly onto the metal. near the side of the engine, easily readable and not hidden.
I also have a 'complete', rivetted to the scuttle, aluminium VIN plate with engine number etc on.
Does the latter need welding on~?
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iank
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| posted on 17/6/13 at 10:53 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by daveb666
My chassis has a properly stamped in VIN number directly onto the metal. near the side of the engine, easily readable and not hidden.
I also have a 'complete', rivetted to the scuttle, aluminium VIN plate with engine number etc on.
Does the latter need welding on~?
I don't think so, that's the "Manufacturer plate" clause 4
"4. The manufacturer’s plate(s) must be securely attached to a part of the vehicle that will not be replaced through normal use (see note
3)."
and
"Note 3: 'Securely attached' means screwed, bolted, riveted or otherwise fixed such that it is not likely to become displaced during
the life of the vehicle."
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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daveb666
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| posted on 17/6/13 at 11:00 AM |
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Ah right I see, makes sense. I'll digest the other amendments over dinner.
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daveb666
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| posted on 17/6/13 at 12:03 PM |
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Just read it through properly - other contributors to this thread are correct. if your chassis number is NOT stamped directly into the chassis, and is
stamped on to a separate plate then this must be fully welded on.
The 'manufacturers' date is as per the previous post.
Most other amendments are to do with warning beacons if lights are left on when doors are open (not a problem for most kit cars), some additional
information for hydrogen powered vehicles.
Bar the manufacturers plate I can't see any other changes that would affect anyone a lot.
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skov
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| posted on 17/6/13 at 12:59 PM |
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Just spotted this change to the rear fog, which could be an issue:
Note 4: Either of the following applies:
1) The rear fog lamp(s) may continue to operate until the position lamps are switched off, and the rear fog lamp(s) must then remain off until
deliberately switched on again or,
2) An audible warning, additional to the mandatory tell-tale light, must be activated if the ignition is switched off or the ignition key is withdrawn
and the driver's door is opened, whether the lamps in (RS4) are on or off, whilst the rear fog lamp switch is in the "on"
position
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davidimurray
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| posted on 17/6/13 at 01:27 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by skov
Just spotted this change to the rear fog, which could be an issue:
Note 4: Either of the following applies:
1) The rear fog lamp(s) may continue to operate until the position lamps are switched off, and the rear fog lamp(s) must then remain off until
deliberately switched on again or,
2) An audible warning, additional to the mandatory tell-tale light, must be activated if the ignition is switched off or the ignition key is withdrawn
and the driver's door is opened, whether the lamps in (RS4) are on or off, whilst the rear fog lamp switch is in the "on"
position
That's going to be interesting, there is no way we can do 2 as we don't have doors so will have to go for option 1 - Typical As my dash is
finished but with rocker switches 
Gallery 1 http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.116893465324.130778.601005324
Gallery 2 http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.245243755324.181913.601005324&l=a9831a9319
Gallery 3 http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.440671625324.232627.601005324&l=3f0d42c523
Gallery 4 http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.490098255324.297598.601005324&l=efb083b7df
Gallery 5 http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150244028550325.366987.601005324&l=583fd5cd3a
Gallery 6 http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150550640070325.430417.601005324&type=3&l=fe779b358c
Duratec Engine Swap https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10152527759580325.1073741828.601005324&type=1&l=40aae5e72f " target="_blank"> https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10152527759580325.1073741828.601005324&type=1&l=40aae5e72f
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Slimy38
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| posted on 17/6/13 at 01:35 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by davidimurray
quote:
Originally posted by skov
Just spotted this change to the rear fog, which could be an issue:
Note 4: Either of the following applies:
1) The rear fog lamp(s) may continue to operate until the position lamps are switched off, and the rear fog lamp(s) must then remain off until
deliberately switched on again or,
2) An audible warning, additional to the mandatory tell-tale light, must be activated if the ignition is switched off or the ignition key is withdrawn
and the driver's door is opened, whether the lamps in (RS4) are on or off, whilst the rear fog lamp switch is in the "on"
position
That's going to be interesting, there is no way we can do 2 as we don't have doors so will have to go for option 1 - Typical As my dash is
finished but with rocker switches
Ah, I read 2 slightly differently. To me it gives two options;
a. if the ignition is switched off, or
b. the ignition key is withdrawn and the drivers door is opened.
Personally I prefer option 1. In your case just replace a rocker switch with a momentary rocker, and then do the latching mechanism electronically
like a lot of cars do?
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daveb666
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| posted on 17/6/13 at 01:38 PM |
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To confirm I've read that right;
My headlights are on, foglights are on. If I turn headlights off, and then back on again the foglights aren't allowed to re-light until I
physically press the foglight button again?
[Edited on 17/6/13 by daveb666]
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davidimurray
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| posted on 17/6/13 at 01:38 PM |
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Slimy - I think your interpretation is right.
The annoying bit is I am using an illuminated rocker for my tell tale, so either need to sort out a way to make an illuminated momentary or add a tell
tale to the dash..
Gallery 1 http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.116893465324.130778.601005324
Gallery 2 http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.245243755324.181913.601005324&l=a9831a9319
Gallery 3 http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.440671625324.232627.601005324&l=3f0d42c523
Gallery 4 http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.490098255324.297598.601005324&l=efb083b7df
Gallery 5 http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150244028550325.366987.601005324&l=583fd5cd3a
Gallery 6 http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150550640070325.430417.601005324&type=3&l=fe779b358c
Duratec Engine Swap https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10152527759580325.1073741828.601005324&type=1&l=40aae5e72f " target="_blank"> https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10152527759580325.1073741828.601005324&type=1&l=40aae5e72f
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skov
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| posted on 17/6/13 at 01:39 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Slimy38
just replace a rocker switch with a momentary rocker, and then do the latching mechanism electronically like a lot of cars do?
That's a nice idea, hadn't thought of that one!
I'm currently desperately deciding what to do, as my IVA is next week!!
Hope there's no more nasty surprises in the new manual
[Edited on 17/6/13 by skov]
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stig mills
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| posted on 17/6/13 at 02:05 PM |
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Fog lights can only be turned on if the headlights are ON, however new "note 4" to that rule allows them to be ON with position lights
(sides) but only if they do not come back on until deliberately switched once you have turned the sides off.
This makes sense, otherwise if you leave the FOG's on and turn off your sides, next time you turn sides (position) lights ON the fog will come
on too.
The key words are "may" on the second line, and "position" on the third line below from the manual;
Note 4: Either of the following applies:
1) The rear fog lamp(s) may continue to operate until the
position lamps are switched off, and the rear fog lamp(s)
must then remain off until deliberately switched on again or,
2) An audible warning, additional to the mandatory tell-tale
light, must be activated if the ignition is switched off or the
ignition key is withdrawn and the driver's door is opened,
whether the lamps in (RS4) are on or off, whilst the rear fog
lamp switch is in the "on" position.
I hope this helps
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rdodger
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| posted on 17/6/13 at 02:36 PM |
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When does this start? I'm booked in for IVA 2 weeks. I don't really want to have to start re wiring fog lights now!
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stig mills
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| posted on 17/6/13 at 02:39 PM |
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It starts today but you should not have to rewire, please see my interpretation above.
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rdodger
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| posted on 17/6/13 at 02:55 PM |
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Ah right so if my fog light only comes on with dipped beam not side lights nothing has changed.
If the fog light comes on with side lights then I have to have it switch off with the lights or have a buzzer?
That's ok then 
I really should read the whole thing rather than panic and start looking for warning buzzers.
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Slimy38
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| posted on 17/6/13 at 02:58 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by stig mills
Fog lights can only be turned on if the headlights are ON, however new "note 4" to that rule allows them to be ON with position lights
(sides) but only if they do not come back on until deliberately switched once you have turned the sides off.
This makes sense, otherwise if you leave the FOG's on and turn off your sides, next time you turn sides (position) lights ON the fog will come
on too.
The key words are "may" on the second line, and "position" on the third line below from the manual;
Note 4: Either of the following applies:
1) The rear fog lamp(s) may continue to operate until the
position lamps are switched off, and the rear fog lamp(s)
must then remain off until deliberately switched on again or,
2) An audible warning, additional to the mandatory tell-tale
light, must be activated if the ignition is switched off or the
ignition key is withdrawn and the driver's door is opened,
whether the lamps in (RS4) are on or off, whilst the rear fog
lamp switch is in the "on" position.
I hope this helps
So I think what you're saying is that we can avoid this completely by sticking with fog lights only coming on at the same time as headlights?
Which is how the rules were yesterday?
Personally I think foglights with sidelights is a bad idea, if it's foggy enough to need foglights then your headlights should be on anyway.
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stig mills
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| posted on 18/6/13 at 03:56 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Slimy38
quote:
Originally posted by stig mills
Fog lights can only be turned on if the headlights are ON, however new "note 4" to that rule allows them to be ON with position lights
(sides) but only if they do not come back on until deliberately switched once you have turned the sides off.
This makes sense, otherwise if you leave the FOG's on and turn off your sides, next time you turn sides (position) lights ON the fog will come
on too.
The key words are "may" on the second line, and "position" on the third line below from the manual;
Note 4: Either of the following applies:
1) The rear fog lamp(s) may continue to operate until the
position lamps are switched off, and the rear fog lamp(s)
must then remain off until deliberately switched on again or,
2) An audible warning, additional to the mandatory tell-tale
light, must be activated if the ignition is switched off or the
ignition key is withdrawn and the driver's door is opened,
whether the lamps in (RS4) are on or off, whilst the rear fog
lamp switch is in the "on" position.
I hope this helps
So I think what you're saying is that we can avoid this completely by sticking with fog lights only coming on at the same time as headlights?
Which is how the rules were yesterday?
Personally I think fog lights with sidelights is a bad idea, if it's foggy enough to need fog lights then your headlights should be on anyway.
The fog rule now has an option to be controlled by position lamps making it more versatile but can be confusing to read. It is not a problem if the
rear fog comes on with heads only.
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stig mills
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| posted on 18/6/13 at 03:58 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by rdodger
Ah right so if my fog light only comes on with dipped beam not side lights nothing has changed.
If the fog light comes on with side lights then I have to have it switch off with the lights or have a buzzer?
That's ok then
I really should read the whole thing rather than panic and start looking for warning buzzers.
The wording can be confusing, we mostly refer to position lamps as side lights for a start.
Panic over I hope.
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