Big Daz
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| posted on 31/8/06 at 03:02 PM |
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What about Q plates?
I am in the process of purchasing a "75%" built Tiger Avon, it has a Zetec 2.0 engine with throttle bodies and as far as I am aware no
cat in the exhaust. The seller has stated that its registered on a Q plate so no SVA needed?
Does this sound correct?
Also how does this work for MOT? How can you tell the age of the car on a Q plate - ie for emmisions purposes?
Cheers
Daz
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smart51
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| posted on 31/8/06 at 03:06 PM |
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I've been told that Q plate cars are visible smoke only at MOT. I've not MOTed a Q plate car myself so I can't guarantee it.
I've heard that recently registered SVAed cars with '98 or newer engines have cat test data printed on the V5 so might need a cat for MOT.
I don't know.
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graememk
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| posted on 31/8/06 at 03:09 PM |
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how can it by 75% built if at all ready have a q plate ?
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Aboardman
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| posted on 31/8/06 at 03:11 PM |
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something not right there if it already has a Q plate and is only 75% be carefully.
[Edited on 31/8/06 by Aboardman]
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Humbug
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| posted on 31/8/06 at 03:12 PM |
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If it was already built and registered on a Q before SVA came in, he's right... so he then unbuilt 25% of it????
Sounds like he is misinformed or trying to pass on something not very good.
I have yet to have my first MOT, but my car is on a Q and there are no emissions details on the V5, so I assume they will have to do just visible
smoke test... hmm, must get rid of the cat, then!
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 31/8/06 at 03:13 PM |
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If it's already registered on a Q plate, has never been SVA'd and isn't finished, then something is VERY wrong!
If it isn't finished then it cannot be properly registered - is he claiming that you can use the existing donor registration? (you
can't)
You will have to check the exact build date of the engine to see whether you need a cat.
As for emissions, the level of emissions testing at SVA will rely on the age of the engine. At the MOT (at the moment) cars with Q plates only need to
be tested for visible smoke. There are very strong rumours that this will change, so that you will need to meet whatever standards you had to achieve
at the SVA.
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iank
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| posted on 31/8/06 at 03:23 PM |
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Whole point of a Q plate is to indicate inderterminate age. Thus the reason Q plates only get a visible smoke test.
I agree with the others, be careful, how can it be registered as a Q if it hasn't passed SVA? Has he taken the reg from a kit he's
scrapped? If so it'll be registered as something else and is effectively a ringer which may get crushed if an eagle eyed MOT tester spots the
inconsistency.
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Big Daz
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| posted on 31/8/06 at 03:30 PM |
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To be honest it is never going to be on the road in my ownership anyway, Its going to be an out & out track car. My plan was to finish building it
/ unbuild it and rebuild it so that I could SVA /MOT it when the time comes. I will find out more info, although I will have plenty of time sort it
out over the winter. It is possible it was built a long time ago and it is just being refurbished but looking at it, there cant be
"original" parts left.
Daz
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Aboardman
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| posted on 31/8/06 at 03:44 PM |
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quote:
As for emissions, the level of emissions testing at SVA will rely on the age of the engine. At the MOT (at the moment) cars with Q plates only need to
be tested for visible smoke. There are very strong rumours that this will change, so that you will need to meet whatever standards you had to achieve
at the SVA.
my car is a Q plate and the V5 has the emissions printed on it so it looks like i will be tested for them.
[Edited on 31/8/06 by Aboardman]
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andrew.carwithen
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| posted on 31/8/06 at 04:03 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by iank
Whole point of a Q plate is to indicate inderterminate age. Thus the reason Q plates only get a visible smoke test.
I agree with the others, be careful, how can it be registered as a Q if it hasn't passed SVA? Has he taken the reg from a kit he's
scrapped? If so it'll be registered as something else and is effectively a ringer which may get crushed if an eagle eyed MOT tester spots the
inconsistency.
I think you've hit the nail on the head.
If I'm right, (been doing a search of old posts) the Avon in question was/is owned by a member of this forum. The same member previously owned
a fully road legal Tiger Cat which was written off by his 'best mate' who refused to pay for repairs etc!.
I think it is the intention to transfer the Cat's ID to the Avon under the guise of a rebuild and hence not undergo SVA etc!!! 
Surely this has gotta be very dodgy and would in all intents and purposes be regarded as 'ringing' ?
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trifield
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| posted on 31/8/06 at 04:16 PM |
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Mines on a Q plate and had it MOT'd last month. Only did a visible check for smoke, no emission tests.
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Peteff
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| posted on 31/8/06 at 04:34 PM |
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I think it is the intention to transfer the Cat's ID to the Avon under the guise of a rebuild and hence not undergo SVA etc!!!
If it's using the parts from the old car it's no different to a lot of other cars. If you wrote off an Indy then rebuilt it with a
different chassis and engine would it need SVA or just a change of engine notification? If you call the Avon chassis a Tiger Cat I doubt an MOT
station will know the difference. If you buy it it's up to you whether you use the old documents or register it again anyway isn't it?
[Edited on 31/8/06 by Peteff]
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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Peter M
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| posted on 31/8/06 at 04:36 PM |
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My car SVA'd april this year with a 98 engine required a cat to be fitted and had to pass the latest emissions to pass SVA even though it was
going on a Q plate.The logbook lists the emissions on it.I have been told that cars with a Q plate with a pre 95 engine is visible smoke and cars
recently SVA 'd with post 95 engine will have to meet emissions that is printed on logbook since with the new computerised MoT's it will
come up with what emissions the car as to meet.Maybe wrong though.
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Hellfire
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| posted on 31/8/06 at 04:59 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Peteff
If it's using the parts from the old car it's no different to a lot of other cars. If you wrote off an Indy then rebuilt it with a
different chassis and engine would it need SVA or just a change of engine notification?..............
[Edited on 31/8/06 by Peteff]
Depends on the class of write-off but if classed as 'damage repairable', before returning it to the road, it would need a VIC (Vehicle
Identity Check) which is carried out by VOSA. As part of this process, you have to declare whether it has a new chassis or not. Once it has passed the
VIC, the V5C details are amended by DVLA and the V5 re-issued c/w details of the accident.
This procedure is perfectly legal but you'd need to ask the question to the seller if there are no accident details on the V5.
Phil
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Hellfire
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| posted on 31/8/06 at 05:03 PM |
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With regard to emissions at MOT;
MOT Emissions Testing
The MOT tester will take the age of the vehicle from the registration plate and also assume that this is the date on which it was first used.
A - If your car has an AGE-RELATED plate he’ll assume that the engine is the same age as the plate and do the test accordingly. However, if your
age-related plate refers to pre-Aug 1998 (‘S’ Prefix) you will continue to get the visible smoke test for the life of the vehicle REGARDLESS of the
age of the engine. Remember though that this does NOT include PERSONALISED plates as in this case the vehicle will continue to be tested according
to its age and NOT the vehicle registration number.
B - If your vehicle has a CURRENT/NEW plate or one that is after 1st August 1998, you will get a ‘basic’ emissions test, which is a basic check
conducted to set limits carried out BEFORE the ‘CAT’ test. If you pass, GREAT. If you fail though you’ll be subject to a full ‘by-the-book’ CAT test,
plus remember that if you fail this you’ll also fail the MOT. Of course there are plenty of CURRENT/NEW registered kits running around with
reconditioned engines so in this instance you will have to prove the age of the engine to the MOT tester. Ideally you should have a copy of your SVA
MAC ‘pass’ certificate, which will be sufficient. Otherwise you will have to get a letter from the engines manufacturer stating clearly what year the
engine was made.
C - Cars with a ‘Q’ plate are regarded as being of uncertain age so therefore will continue to be subject to the visible smoke test.
Phil
[Edited on 31-8-06 by Hellfire]
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russbost
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| posted on 31/8/06 at 05:33 PM |
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Agree in full with Phil with regard to the Mot if registered on a Q plate age is irrelevant & emissions are not checked whatever is printed on the
V5. Whether it is VOSA's intention to change this in the future however & hence the data being included on the V5
.......................
Re Sva, any substantial change to the vehicular structure requires Sva testing, hence things like the Z cars mini conversions need Sva even tho it
still looks like a Mini. If you rebuild a Tiger with, for instance, an MK chassis, thats like rebuilding a mini with a Peugeot bodyshell &
would definitely require Sva - if you chose to "ring" the registration onto the other chassis, as many people have done with old Dutton
registrations to avoid Sva, if it's a similar "7 type" vehicle you'd probably get away with it as hardly anyone would know one
chassis from another as long as the chassis no. was correct, however it's not worth the risk as people with Lotus 7 Duttons are finding to their
cost. & Yes they most certainly can crush your pride & joy if you've been this silly & get caught.
I no longer run Furore Products or Furore Cars Ltd, but would still highly recommend them for Acewell dashes, projector headlights, dominator
headlights, indicators, mirrors etc, best prices in the UK! Take a look at http://www.furoreproducts.co.uk/ or find more parts on Ebay, user names
furoreltd & furoreproducts, discounts available for LCB users.
Don't forget Stainless Steel Braided brake hoses, made to your exact requirements in any of around 16 colours.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/furoreproducts/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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Peter M
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| posted on 31/8/06 at 06:03 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by russbost
Agree in full with Phil with regard to the Mot if registered on a Q plate age is irrelevant & emissions are not checked whatever is printed on the
V5.
Does that mean i can safely get rid of my Cat then ?
my previous cars
my westfield build
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andrew.carwithen
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| posted on 31/8/06 at 08:17 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Peteff
.... If you call the Avon chassis a Tiger Cat I doubt an MOT station will know the difference. If you buy it it's up to you whether you use the
old documents or register it again anyway isn't it?
[Edited on 31/8/06 by Peteff]
The point is, that judging by his posts, it seems the original poster is unaware that there is a second vehicle involved in passing its ID onto the
Avon. He seemed to think that it was the Avon itself that had sometime in its history been subject to a 'rebuild'. Which is not the case.
The Avon is a new build!
Therefore, If he isn't aware of all the facts, how can he make a judgement on whether he should avoid the SVA or not?
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Big Daz
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| posted on 31/8/06 at 08:41 PM |
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The point is, that judging by his posts, it seems the original poster is unaware that there is a second vehicle involved in passing its ID onto the
Avon. He seemed to think that it was the Avon itself that had sometime in its history been subject to a 'rebuild'. Which is not the case.
The Avon is a new build!
Therefore, If he isn't aware of all the facts, how can he make a judgement on whether he should avoid the SVA or not?
Correct, I have no idea about any rebuild / other car. This car is to be a track car, I thought it would be good to be able to SVA / otherwise it to
help with resale value in the future. So for sake of arguement, lets say some of this is true, and it has a "dubious" Q plate, can I just
ignore this and SVA it properly and get a proper registration or am I being too simplistic?
Cheers
Daz
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Hellfire
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| posted on 31/8/06 at 08:45 PM |
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Yes, you can ignore the current registration altogether and get it SVA'd with a new chassis number.
Phil
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JoelP
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| posted on 31/8/06 at 08:58 PM |
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i think that whoever is selling it is being incredibly naive and foolish trying to sell it halfway through this process. Its very common really, that
when someone trashes their car they build a new one and transfer the details over, however, you shouldnt advertise the fact! And if it did become
common knowledge, you would maintain at least some semelence that it was the original car being rebuilt with a new chassis, not a similar new build.
He's asking for a major headache.
[Edited on 31/8/06 by JoelP]
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Hellfire
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| posted on 31/8/06 at 09:47 PM |
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Personally, I would say yes it could be a problem.
Phil
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iank
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| posted on 31/8/06 at 10:01 PM |
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You might avoid getting prosecuted by the courts if you bought it in good faith, but the car would still be crushed as a ringer.
p.s. there is at least one SVA tester (i.e. VOSA employee who reads this forum...)
[Edited on 31/8/06 by iank]
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Hellfire
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| posted on 31/8/06 at 10:10 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by dilley
In what respect? surley it wouldnt come down to me as I bought it ready registered?
Caveat Emptor - let the buyer beware.
When you buy privately, you don't have the same rights as you do when buying from a professional trader. It's a case of 'buyer
beware'. That means it's up to you - not the seller - to make sure the car is genuine. If however, the car was misdescribed and you can
prove it, you may have some recourse.
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dilley
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| posted on 31/8/06 at 10:17 PM |
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Thanks for the info
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