prawnabie
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| posted on 4/12/10 at 11:42 AM |
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I think one of the problems we face on the roads is that most people drive cars because they have to, unlike most cyclists that ride because they want
to. Both sets of people have different agendas that often conflict with each other, this is made worse with the difference in speed.
How many times have we commuted to work in car and then realised that we have travelled a good distance thinking about something else - especially if
we drive that route everyday. If you then think that 90% of people on the roads during rush hour ARE doing the same route they have done for a while
then you can see why there are so many accidents.
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roadrunner
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| posted on 4/12/10 at 01:44 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scootz
That's all well and good, but you're working on the assumption that other motorists will notice these things and that they too will drive
accordingly in such weather.
They don't! Many are bleary eyed, only looking out for car sized (and larger) objects, whilst peering through the 6 inch square they cleared on
their windscreen and texting their mate with a weather update!
Cyclists are a soft target at the best of times... they are sitting ducks in the conditions I described.
I appreciate cycling is essential and enjoyable for some - it's not so essential and enjoyable though that it's worth increasing the odds
dramatically of becoming a statistic!
So you are saying a cyclist shouldnt use the road because other road users are crap at driving.
I have been hit twice by W***ER drivers, and I have near misses nearly every day because they cant wait one or two seconds. 
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roadrunner
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| posted on 4/12/10 at 01:48 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mad4x4
quote:
Originally posted by adithorp
He's the one with the right to be there.
But does he...... He doesn't pay road tax , more than likely doesn't have insurance.......
I pay two road taxes es and cycling to work pays for the kit car by saving £40 a week.
Also, even though i use a bike every day i still pay through the nose for the road tax.
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Paul TigerB6
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| posted on 4/12/10 at 02:16 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mad4x4
quote:
Originally posted by adithorp
He's the one with the right to be there.
But does he...... He doesn't pay road tax , more than likely doesn't have insurance.......
And you think that means cyclists dont have a right to ride on the roads?? You're not serious??
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scootz
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| posted on 4/12/10 at 03:21 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by roadrunner
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
That's all well and good, but you're working on the assumption that other motorists will notice these things and that they too will drive
accordingly in such weather.
They don't! Many are bleary eyed, only looking out for car sized (and larger) objects, whilst peering through the 6 inch square they cleared on
their windscreen and texting their mate with a weather update!
Cyclists are a soft target at the best of times... they are sitting ducks in the conditions I described.
I appreciate cycling is essential and enjoyable for some - it's not so essential and enjoyable though that it's worth increasing the odds
dramatically of becoming a statistic!
So you are saying a cyclist shouldnt use the road because other road users are crap at driving.
I have been hit twice by W***ER drivers, and I have near misses nearly every day because they cant wait one or two seconds.
Am I typing in a foreign language or something!? No, I am NOT saying that cyclists shouldn't use the roads because other road users are crap at
driving. I'm merely suggesting that cyclists shouldn't use the roads in the conditions I DESCRIBED because a number of other road users
are crap with their observations and judgement!
Jeez, you've just validated my point with your second paragraph telling us how you've been hit twice and have had daily near misses! If
you're having daily near-misses, then there's obviously an issue here... even when conditions are fine! Now lets make the conditions
really bad (as I DESCRIBED) and what's just happened? Yup, the risk to the cyclist has just shot through the roof!
It's entirely up to you to make your own risk-assessments on your daily activities and if you think that cycling in the conditions as described
is worth the punt, then as I said before... crack on fella! Personally I think to do so is nuts!
It's Evolution Baby!
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ashg
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| posted on 4/12/10 at 03:28 PM |
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i tried riding a bike in the snow once. it seemed like hard work so i gave up and went back in the warm
Anything With Tits or Wheels Will cost you MONEY!!
Haynes Roadster (Finished)
Exocet (Finished & Sold)
New Project (Started)
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LBMEFM
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| posted on 4/12/10 at 05:36 PM |
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The road is dangerous if not used properly, that go's for speeders, cars in poor condition, slow unobservant drivers but I must say that when I
hear cyclist talking they are always on about the way motorist treat them. Yet very often I see them on unlite cycles, not stopping at red lights,
going around round-a-bouts the wrong way, mounting pavements and generally having total disregard for the rules of the road. This coupled with the
fact there is no need to have a any form of test, licence, insurance there is no age limit on riders and I often seen riders who have obviously been
drinking and also racing clubs going through the narrow streets around here two or three abreast going in excess of the 20mph speed limits. It maybe
that many cyclist are responsible road users but surely there must soon be some form of legislation to control the dangerou ones. When you consider
the costs of motoring and the fines imposed surely all road users should be responsible for their actions and pay when they break the law.
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roadrunner
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| posted on 4/12/10 at 09:13 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by LBMEFM
The road is dangerous if not used properly, that go's for speeders, cars in poor condition, slow unobservant drivers but I must say that when I
hear cyclist talking they are always on about the way motorist treat them. Yet very often I see them on unlite cycles, not stopping at red lights,
going around round-a-bouts the wrong way, mounting pavements and generally having total disregard for the rules of the road. This coupled with the
fact there is no need to have a any form of test, licence, insurance there is no age limit on riders and I often seen riders who have obviously been
drinking and also racing clubs going through the narrow streets around here two or three abreast going in excess of the 20mph speed limits. It maybe
that many cyclist are responsible road users but surely there must soon be some form of legislation to control the dangerou ones. When you consider
the costs of motoring and the fines imposed surely all road users should be responsible for their actions and pay when they break the law.
I agree with you with some points, there are some morons who do as they like on there bike, but they are not dedicated cyclists, they are just kids
or knobs who dont give a s**t. But if a cyclist makes a mistake, who does it hurt, when a motorist makes a mistake, who gets killed.
Its alright having a go at the bloke on the bike, but who really needs the lessons on how to use the road.
Can we finish this thread now, I get all worked up about it. One day some thick ignorant driver who cuts me off or squeezes me against parked cars is
going to find himself on the end of my fist.
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Ninehigh
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| posted on 4/12/10 at 09:16 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by roadrunner
Its alright having a go at the bloke on the bike, but who really needs the lessons on how to use the road.
Everyone.
No exceptions seeing as we're all above average drivers.
End
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Rocket_Rabbit
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| posted on 5/12/10 at 01:33 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by prawnabie
Its a fact that most driver go into autopilot when driving routes they are familiar with thats not going to change. I ride a motor and a push bike
quite often and when I do so I ride under the impression its up to me to make myself seen, not up to the driver of the car/lorry etc to see me. If I
cant make myself seen then I get the f**k out of the way.
Too many accidents are caused by cyclist that assume they have the same road presence as cars etc just because they have the right to be on the road.
100% agree with that.
I do my absolute damndest to make sure I am seen and that any manouver I make mill prevent me from being squashed.
Sometimes, this means deliberately riding in the middle of the road and pi55ing off car drivers. So be it - if they paid more attention....
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Simon
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| posted on 5/12/10 at 05:33 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Ninehigh
No exceptions seeing as we're all above average drivers.
End
I'm RoSPA and IAM Advanced and ex motorcycle instructor so count myself as above average
ATB
Simon
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dhutch
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| posted on 5/12/10 at 06:44 PM |
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I was out biking this weekend, all be it on the hills not the roads. However i dont see why people should cycle in the snow, for some people, it is
there normal method of getting around, nobody is stopping you driving your car!!
Daniel
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Ninehigh
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| posted on 5/12/10 at 07:37 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Simon
quote:
Originally posted by Ninehigh
No exceptions seeing as we're all above average drivers.
End
I'm RoSPA and IAM Advanced and ex motorcycle instructor so count myself as above average
ATB
Simon
I'll let you off then 
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Simon
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| posted on 6/12/10 at 08:08 PM |
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Thanks very much
ATB
Simon
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Paul TigerB6
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| posted on 9/12/10 at 08:20 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scootz
Am I typing in a foreign language or something!?[/qoute]
yes - its called the "lets dig ourselves into a hole with my blinkered view" language (blinkered like the drivers who go around not
observing properly) by making the contradictory comment below!!!
quote:
No, I am NOT saying that cyclists shouldn't use the roads because other road users are crap at driving. I'm merely suggesting
that cyclists shouldn't use the roads in the conditions I DESCRIBED because a number of other road users are crap with their observations and
judgement!
So being crap at observation and judgement doesnt mean some people are crap drivers?? REALLY??? So they could be good drivers then??
Well i am an IAM qualified driver and pretty much the majority of the test revolved around observation and judgement - but i guess you are right and
the whole of the IAM is wrong............ clearly in your mind, observation and judgement have nothing to do with being a good driver!! Personally
i'd say the opposite but what do i know!!
I'll ask my friend who's an ambulance driver and now is sat at home with whiplash after a driver drove into her great big ambulance
because "he didn't see it". His observation was clearly pretty damn crap that day - but i guess in your eyes he could well be a good
driver still. Tell that to the cops who recommended he be prosecuted for driving without due care and attention. Its just a good job she wasnt on a
bike as she'd be dead in all likelyhood - but clearly that would have been her own fault for getting in the way of the good driver who
just happened inconveniently to be poor with his observation!!!
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Ninehigh
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| posted on 9/12/10 at 08:51 PM |
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You have got to ask questions when someone claims they didn't see an ambulance - a vehicle aesthetically designed to be so visible it can get to
emergencies way faster than standard Ford Transits
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scootz
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| posted on 9/12/10 at 10:57 PM |
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Paul...
Roadrunner stated, "So you are saying a cyclist shouldnt use the road because other road users are crap at driving". At no point
did I ever say that. Feel free to quote me to the contrary... you won't. So hopefully that bits settled - I never wrote it!
I replied, "I'm merely suggesting that cyclists shouldn't use the roads in the conditions I DESCRIBED because a number of other
road users are crap with their observations and judgement!"
You'll note that the words, "I DESCRIBED", were in capitals in my response. This was for a reason... !!!
Now, hopefully to clarify for the last time and to try and put it in as plain english as I possibly can... cycling on the road in the conditions I
DESCRIBED (and you didn't see them!) was verging on suicidal. Just the same as walking on the road in the conditions I DESCRIBED (and you
didn't see them!) was verging on suicidal. Just the same as roller-skating on the road in the conditions I DESCRIBED (and you didn't see
them!) was verging on suicidal. Just the same as pogo-sticking on the road in the conditions I DESCRIBED (and you didn't see them!) was verging
on suicidal. Etc. etc. etc.
Based on an assessment of the road as I DESCRIBED (which you didn't see) together with prior experience of dealing with fatalities
involving cyclists (including fatalities involving cyclists in adverse driving conditions), then I feel I'm reasonably well qualified to suggest
that this guy was taking a spectacularly ill-thought out course of action.
I'll stand by this quote...
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
I have no problem with cycling, or cyclists in general, but there is a time and a place!
The A199, as described, during commuter hour is NOT the place to be doing it!
It's Evolution Baby!
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02GF74
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| posted on 10/12/10 at 09:31 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by prawnabie
I think one of the problems we face on the roads is that most people drive cars because they have to, unlike most cyclists that ride because
they want to.
That's not true. Nobody needs to own a car. If people lived close to work then they could easily walk. The vast majority if car journeys are
probably less than 3 miles (check the statistics but it is like that).
But because they can afford to run a car and buy a nice house in the sticks they commute to the grubby big shitty, not to mention taking the
kiddies in a 4x4 to the school that is 1/2 mile away.
Anyways, seems the car vs bikers need to meet after work for a good old punch upf!! 
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 12/12/10 at 11:50 PM |
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As a long term cyclist and a petrolhead I find some of the comments on here dissappointing. We SHARE the road. If you can't overtake a cyclist
easily you're either in a tight place with low visibility and little room (and so unlikely to gain more than a few seconds by overtaking the
cyclist) or you should take your test again. I really REALLY don't see any points where the two can't live together perfectly happily
providing both respect each other and give each other room and think about how the other has to deal with them. Good lighting is a MUST for bikes,
it's unfair to expect drivers to see a candle in the snow, and there are plenty of lights out there that make us super-visible. Likewise a
little patience isn't much to ask for from drivers. I know it can seem really annoying to be held up behind a bike for 30 seconds - it seems
like an age - but really, it's 30 seconds...
Last week, in -17, I cycled to work faster than I could make it in the car (primarily because my diesel refused to start after the -20 overnight
temps). Down 60s, 40s and 30s. Not once did I have a problem with the cars. Not once did I hold anyone up and not once did any driver hold me up. The
only problem I had was when my chain broke 1/2 a mile from work on the way home and left me 9.5 miles walk in the dark.
The people I find by far the most stupid in these conditions are those who drive 3ft from my arse in ice and snow, who pull out without looking in ice
and snow, and those who tank about like it's dry and sunny. Anyone else is welcome on the roads I'm on, and I am capable of driving to not
find encountering them a problem.
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Ninehigh
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| posted on 13/12/10 at 12:39 AM |
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We're not the problem, it's the rest of the unwashed, irresponsible and hard-of-thinking out there!
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andkilde
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| posted on 13/12/10 at 04:26 PM |
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Hey Scootz, as a cyclist and a motorist I'll take the bullet for you and just say it 
There are times and conditions where a safety conscious cyclist should avoid the roads because the vast majority (perhaps more fairly, a large
proportion) of motorists are such complete talentless knobs they can barely keep their cars on the road.
I'm not familiar with the A199, but bicycles, small displacement motorcycles, farm implements and whatnot are restricted from using motorways in
Canada.
Motorists here are horrible at sharing the road in good weather, and our roads are not well designed for cyclists, though things are slowly improving.
Education levels are abysmal, a Police officer actually recommended to my son's class that kids should always ride on the sidewalks (pavement?)
during a safety day talk, in spite of it being spectacularly dangerous _AND_ illegal. I'd have tracked him down to set him straight but figured
I'd be tasered, pepper-sprayed or clubbed for my trouble .
Cheers, Ted
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scootz
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| posted on 13/12/10 at 05:36 PM |
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That pretty much sums it up Ted!
It's Evolution Baby!
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Ninehigh
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| posted on 13/12/10 at 06:30 PM |
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Iirc cycling like that here is illegal too but I think it's a case of the damage done when the faster/heavier traveller hits the slower one.
Car hits bike = damage to bike + rider
Bike hits pedestrian = scuffed elbows
Well, something to that effect
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