pdm
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| posted on 17/11/10 at 01:26 PM |
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Selling V5 with engine "to trade"
Hi
Not been posting for a while but wondered if you could help me out again.
I've finally sold my MX5 engine as my project is cancelled/on hold due to a change in circumstances.
The chap has asked me for the V5 as he will use engine for a kit and wants age related at the end BUT he has asked to put it through "to
trade". I.e. he takes my V5 and I get the yellow bit to send to DVLA saying its in trade.
He appears to be from a well known kit car manufacturer (not sure if I should name so I won't) so seems above board.
The car is already effectively broken - I still have chassis plates which I won't hand over.
Does anyone see an issue with this ? Is it legal as I imagine it would be pretty easy to ring another MX5 with my V5 ?
thanks
Paul
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Bluemoon
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| posted on 17/11/10 at 01:29 PM |
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Interesting, I guess so long as no-one else has assess to the VIN you should be o.k, legally though I don't know same gray area as building a
kit. After all normally when building a kit the donner car chassis is no more yet you still have a V5...
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jossey
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| posted on 17/11/10 at 01:32 PM |
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if you sign over the v5 you shouldnt really have the chassis anymore as you cant scrap a car with no v5 so how would you get rid?
dave
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pdm
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| posted on 17/11/10 at 01:34 PM |
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thanks
thing is though the VIN is on the V5 anyway so anybody criminally minded could soon knock up another set for a different MX5.
I know people on here sell donor packs with V5's but thats normally not to trade I would imagine....
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loggyboy
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| posted on 17/11/10 at 01:40 PM |
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surely the chassis plates will be useless to you without the V5, so you may as well hand over all the information, that way you have effectively sold
the car to him.
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russbost
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| posted on 17/11/10 at 01:52 PM |
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Ha Ha! I can guess the manufacturer without a prob! I'm sure you'll get no problem from them, all you need to do is make sure DVLA know
that you no longer have the vehicle as otherwise they'll fine you for not SORNing it. To get age related you only actually need a copy of the V5
TTBOMK, you obviously also need to be happy to state that all the parts you've said came from that vehicle have done so!
I no longer run Furore Products or Furore Cars Ltd, but would still highly recommend them for Acewell dashes, projector headlights, dominator
headlights, indicators, mirrors etc, best prices in the UK! Take a look at http://www.furoreproducts.co.uk/ or find more parts on Ebay, user names
furoreltd & furoreproducts, discounts available for LCB users.
Don't forget Stainless Steel Braided brake hoses, made to your exact requirements in any of around 16 colours.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/furoreproducts/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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pdm
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| posted on 17/11/10 at 01:54 PM |
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thanks russbost
I do actually have a letter from Mazda they sent me which I had to get because my car was a Eunos and the engine number wasnt on the V5 - it states
the original VIN no, the original engine no and the date of manufacture so I could take it all to my IVA - I'd actually asked VOSA about what
evidence I needed and that was what they told me to do.
[Edited on 17/11/10 by pdm]
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Dusty
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| posted on 17/11/10 at 02:00 PM |
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The vin and V5C belong to the car/chassis not the engine. To sell the V5C with the engine means something along the lines of ringing is going to take
place. It cannot be 100% legitimate.
You retaining a couple of metal scraps with the vin on them suggests you know it's not right but if you have the plates your conscience is clear
and you have done your best to prevent fraud whilst still making a profit and assisting someone else in committing their fraud.
At the end of the day does it matter? If it gets built as a Robtigmk and is IVA tested properly. It's not like driving a cobra that is
registered as a Dutton.
[Edited on 17/11/10 by Dusty]
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pdm
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| posted on 17/11/10 at 02:09 PM |
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Bit wooly isnt it - I'm going to check with the DVLA and see what they say.
thanks everyone.
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DarrenW
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| posted on 17/11/10 at 02:15 PM |
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sounds to me like the engine and V5 are 2 seperate debates.
I would have thought you are giving away the V5 and by saying you have sold the car to trade you wont have anything to do with it again. The kit
company can then just 'sell' the V5 on to new owner as a trade sale without an additional owner being registered.
Doesnt sound like a problem to me as long as you no longer have responsibility for the 'car', which is why you send the slip off.
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pdm
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| posted on 17/11/10 at 02:21 PM |
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well the official line on this from DVLA is:
You are not allowed to scrap a car yourself anymore - on all newly issued V5's, the tick box to say you scrapped it yourself isn't there
anymore. You can only scrap a car at an ATF.
If you dismantle it yourself and sell the stuff, you are going to need to SORN it forever.
In the locost case, you dismantle it, SORN it until such time as you apply for your age related plate.
He has confirmed that technically the vehicle does exist as it is still registered even though the chassis/body has been cut up and weighed in.
Therefore it is ok to sell it with the V5 to the new owner. You are allowed to do this to trade as well.
Basically you fill in either the V5 for a private sale of the yellow slip for a trade sale and send it to the DVLA to get them to take you off the
vehicle.
The new owner is then responsible for either SORNing it forever OR getting age related plate for their new kit.
So looks like I'm ok to sell engine and V5 together. Think I'll keep the VIN plates though.
Hope that helps anyone else for future.
Thanks everyone for comments - just made me cautious enough to check.
cheers
Paul
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blakep82
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| posted on 17/11/10 at 02:34 PM |
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the v5 belongs with the chassis, not the engine doesn't it?
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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pdm
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| posted on 17/11/10 at 02:48 PM |
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Yes correct, V5 is for chassis but the DVLA was adamant that what I had done by removing VIN, chopping chassis up was ok. I did specifically tell
him that I weighed in the chassis for scrap. However, I did point out that eventually, the V5 would be used to register a kit after IVA and that the
buyer of my engine also planned the same.
So if you'be broken you're donor, have to cancel your project, you are ok to sell your bits on to someone else with V5.
To the DVLA the car still exists until they are told its scrapped which as kit car builders we wouldn't normally do. The only way to legally
scrap a car now is take it to an ATF and hand them your V5. Otherwise your car remains in existence forever and must be SORN'ed forever.
If you are in my situation want to change the owner and the new owner SORNs it (again something I pointedly asked him) then that is ok with the
DVLA.
(I guess my car still exists, its just that some of it is in small pieces in a skip and the rest is in my garage.)
If the new owner then goes on to weld up a new VIN plate and stick it on some deathtrap it would be them breaking the law not me.
After all, whats to stop someone doing that with a car in one piece ? Although not very sensible to do !!
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snapper
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| posted on 17/11/10 at 05:36 PM |
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My opinion.......
It's in the kit car trade.
We have broken cars and kept the usable bits with V5 and plates for exactly the same reason you have and have sold on the package when our projects
changed.
DVLA will not have a clue so will say NO
If you know the kit car firm then sell it to them, if you check the vin on DVLA web site in a year or 2 and it comes up as a MX5 then you can report
it to plod
I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
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blakep82
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| posted on 17/11/10 at 06:11 PM |
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sounds a bit similar to the whole ringer thing we see posted all too often on here to me
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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steve m
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| posted on 17/11/10 at 07:41 PM |
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"sounds a bit similar to the whole ringer thing we see posted all too often on here to me"
Blake, im with you, and reading the all the above, reads as though the car may re materialize in the future, infact so much a con it should be nipped
in the bud now
Call the Police !
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russbost
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| posted on 18/11/10 at 08:01 PM |
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I think you'll find this is nothing to do with ringing - the reason the "trader" who I believe is a kitcar manufacturer wants the V5
is so when using that engine in a kit they can provide a copy of the V5 & either they or the new owner will say that all the other parts on the
car came from same donor, hence getting an age related plate rather than the Q you'd get otherwise if you said the bits came from various
sources. I could be wrong, but think you're reading too much into this - of course strictly speaking the above is somewhat non legit, but
it's far from ringing.
I no longer run Furore Products or Furore Cars Ltd, but would still highly recommend them for Acewell dashes, projector headlights, dominator
headlights, indicators, mirrors etc, best prices in the UK! Take a look at http://www.furoreproducts.co.uk/ or find more parts on Ebay, user names
furoreltd & furoreproducts, discounts available for LCB users.
Don't forget Stainless Steel Braided brake hoses, made to your exact requirements in any of around 16 colours.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/furoreproducts/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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scootz
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| posted on 18/11/10 at 08:07 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by russbost
I think you'll find this is nothing to do with ringing - the reason the "trader" who I believe is a kitcar manufacturer wants the V5
is so when using that engine in a kit they can provide a copy of the V5 & either they or the new owner will say that all the other parts on the
car came from same donor, hence getting an age related plate rather than the Q you'd get otherwise if you said the bits came from various
sources. I could be wrong, but think you're reading too much into this - of course strictly speaking the above is somewhat non legit, but
it's far from ringing.
+1
It's Evolution Baby!
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pdm
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| posted on 18/11/10 at 09:12 PM |
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yes as above two posts thanks for those - he's phoned tonight to arrange pickup and he addressed all my concerns. his phone no checks out with
his website and he's perfectly ok with doing all paperwork correctly. Seems a good bloke all round. He's a manufacturer and wants V5 to
get age related plate on upcoming build - that's all.
Given DVLA say I'm ok (and have now confirmed by email as well) I am a lot happier than I was.
At the end of the day it's no different than selling a part built kit, your donor bits and V5 and I bet loads on here have done that over the
years....and I bet there loads in the magazines like that as well.
Thanks everyone for all the input.
Guess this means my project is hiatus for a while until we've got stable employment again
I'll stay on here for inspiration !!
Thanks again as always folks
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