McLannahan
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| posted on 30/11/11 at 07:53 PM |
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Plumbing help again please!
Yet again we have no shower. It's been like this for two weeks now and my family is sick of sponge washes!
Shower will run but it's cold. It hunts like it doesn't have enough water. It's a basic power shower with a hot and cold feed.
I'll post a video!
I've popped into the loft and the small tank is low on water, only 6 inches in it but yet the tide marks show it was (should be?) about 6 inches
higher.
Hot water pressure is low and I was wondering if this small tank would affect it? I'm guessing the ball cock arrangement will need changing if
it's not filling and it's meant to be?
Large tank seems quite full.
Various diagrams seem to point to small tank being the header for the heating but as that's not too bad( it does work but not well) I'm
more fussed about being able to shower! I'm hoping the small tank is connected to the issue?
Chap at work said airlock but have tried shorting hot and cold and it hasn't helped!
Help me and my family lcb!
Many thanks
Frustrated and dejected Michael.
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big-vee-twin
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| posted on 30/11/11 at 08:03 PM |
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When my shower hunts its usually due to air trapped in the pipes, the small tank in the loft will be your fill and expansion tank for the heating and
nothing to do with your plumbing. The large tank will be the cold water storage tank.
What I did eventually was fit a shower pump adjacent the hot water cylinder with hot and cold connections and connected this to my shower pipework and
replaced the shower to one without an internal pump. Problem solved.
Duratec Engine is fitted, MS2 Extra V3 is assembled and tested, engine running, car now built. IVA passed 26/02/2016
http://www.triangleltd.com
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JeffHs
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| posted on 30/11/11 at 08:12 PM |
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You should have equal pressure on both hot and cold, so the normal arrangement is to feed the cold from the header tank in the loft(the tank that
gives you the head for the hot water). Hot feed should be taken from the hot cylinder via a Surrey flange or similar (hole in the tank below water
line) otherwise you may get airlock problems.
My system works ok with a tapping off the hot feed to the rest of the house, very close to the cylinder itself. This isn't 'right'
according to the pump instruction but it works for me.
I'm guessing that your hot feed is less than ideal and has airlocked - see
http://www.screwfix.com/p/salamander-s-tank-flange-fitting-for-hot-water-cylinder-22mm/76906 for the 'right way to do it.
Alternatively, your cold tank may be too small. The supply for the shower must not be off the feed/expansion tank for the central heating system
because this will be full of all sorts of crap including corrosion inhibitor
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jacko
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| posted on 30/11/11 at 08:16 PM |
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Is your shower from mixer taps ? the cold water should come direct from the large tank 22mm pipe
Is the seals / washers ok in the taps if they come of they can part block making short of water
Jacko
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ninja02
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| posted on 30/11/11 at 08:47 PM |
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Some power showers have a filter on the inlet pipes. Is your hot water pressure ok on your bath taps? If yes, its more likely linked with the power
shower. I doubt it will be airlocked unless you have drained the tank.
As you thought, the small tank is for the central heating.
Phill
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McLannahan
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| posted on 30/11/11 at 08:57 PM |
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Thanks everyone!
It looks like to me that the feed for the shower come from above the cylinder in the airing cupboard. There's a fatter pipe coming from the top
of the tank ans that spurs off and goes straight up. This bends at a right angle in the loft, along to the bathroom and right angle back down into the
bathroom.
Does this sound wrong? I'll supply photos if I can!
Thanks for confirmation on small tank Phill, have filled it up and moved the float so it fills to the right level....if only that had fixed it!
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McLannahan
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| posted on 30/11/11 at 09:03 PM |
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Ha. Take that YouTube....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wt-DDuAZ7-E
A video of my crappy shower
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McLannahan
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| posted on 30/11/11 at 09:11 PM |
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The middle pipe (largest one) has the shower branched off on the right
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r1_pete
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| posted on 30/11/11 at 09:30 PM |
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If that 15mm pipe tee'd off the expansion pipe feeds your shower it is wrong.
It should have a fitting in the top of the tank which draws the hot water from 150mm or so below the tank neck, it has a name but I can't
remember what its called. But it feeds tha shower via a 15mm pipe, and facilitates the expansion pipe.
In your installation, the pump will draw the water down the expansion pipe and then suck air, if the shower manages to work, and someone uses hot
water elsewhere, hot flow to the shower hot will stop.
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r1_pete
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| posted on 30/11/11 at 09:34 PM |
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Its a surrey flange:
http://www.wickes.co.uk/surrey-flange/invt/421901/?source=123_74
[Edited on 30/11/11 by r1_pete]
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McLannahan
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| posted on 30/11/11 at 09:36 PM |
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Pete - I think that's exactly it! Is it the flange that Jeff above suggests? York Flange?
The shower is definately the feed on the far right, and the house was built in 96. Apparently the shower has always been toss....This looks like why!!
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r1_pete
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| posted on 30/11/11 at 09:45 PM |
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Looks like a similar thing, there are variants, but in my old system I used the wickes part in a pumped shower.
Another thing to check, as well as not instead of, is the in line filter in the hot feed in the shower unit, there is a lot of crap in those copper
cylinders and the filter soon clogs up.
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macc man
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| posted on 30/11/11 at 09:56 PM |
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As stated the plumbing is incorrect and will give you the problems you are having. Best to get a plumber(me) or good DIY man in to sort it out.
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McLannahan
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| posted on 30/11/11 at 10:07 PM |
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Thanks again everyone. So pleased to have a definitive answer and confirmation that my plumbing is wrong. It often fixes itself but not this time!
Is this a long job to fit so I've got some idea of what it might cost?
So excited to think I might be able to have a good shower soon! 
Thanks again
Michael
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Dusty
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| posted on 30/11/11 at 10:40 PM |
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Presumably the tank is some distance from the shower and that 15mm pipe goes up into the loft, crosses the loft floor and then loops down into the
bathroom. It should have a bleed in it. If not then when you add the Surrey flange to your tank also add an air bleed to the shower feed pipe at its
highest point in the loft. To be bleedable this pipe as it crosses the loft floor must be well below the water level in the cold water tank.
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McLannahan
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| posted on 30/11/11 at 10:48 PM |
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Thanks Dusty - It travels about 15 feet in the loft and runs above the floor level, but only because there's no floor up there! It would be a
inch above a floor if there was one? I'm pretty sure there's no bleed in it, it's covered in lagging. There's a tap on the
cold feed going to the shower (runs next to the hot feed) but no obvious bleed. The pipes are below the water tanks - they're on a platform two
foot off the floor level.
Wouldn't the flange remove all the air from the pipe then?
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Dusty
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| posted on 1/12/11 at 12:29 AM |
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The surrey flange should prevent new air entering the loop if all works as it should but he whole pipe run will be full of air after you re-jig the
system with the new flange. Some is bound to stay 'up top' and air does sometimes seem to magically appear in plumbing. You are asking it
to go through the system with a four-ish foot drop for it's last trick. Unless the flow is pretty fast the air won't clear. Nice to be
able to bleed it at will. You have nothing to loose by fitting a bleed.
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McLannahan
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| posted on 12/1/12 at 11:00 PM |
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A bump but just another thanks to all that helped with advice.
We've had a Surrey flange fitted a month or so now and the difference is staggering.
If we have a good few showers and use too much water we just end up with a normal powerful but colder shower. No more hunting and pulsating.
With just normal hot water use we now get about 3 to 4 showers with constant good pressure and heat, it's brilliant! Not the one or half a
shower we got before, it's luxury for us!
Just need to tart up the bathroom now
Thanks everyone.
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