liam.mccaffrey
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| posted on 9/8/13 at 07:26 PM |
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Another Age Related Plate Q
I've done the obligatory search and come to the following conclusion, could anyone clarify whether they think its correct.
If I (or someone else) built their own chassis and used a FWD donor vehicle which provided engine, box, shafts and front hubs (now on rear of car) and
brakes......that SHOULD qualify for an age related plate. Correct??
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loggyboy
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| posted on 9/8/13 at 07:35 PM |
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Yes, engine and box is sufficient. Allthough chassis should technically be from professional manufacturer, and whilst historically others have
managed, under new central dvla control I believe it will get harder to do so.
Mistral Motorsport
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chrism
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| posted on 9/8/13 at 08:26 PM |
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Looking on the new DVLA website it doesnt look like you can get an age related plate anymore, under kit cars its not listed there anymore.
[Edited on 9/8/13 by chrism]
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A little hard work never killed anyone, but why take the risk!
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rdodger
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| posted on 9/8/13 at 08:29 PM |
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You still can. The DVLA did remove the option but are supposed to be putting it back.
I did age related 3 weeks ago.
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loggyboy
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| posted on 9/8/13 at 08:37 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by chrism
Looking on the new DVLA website it doesnt look like you can get an age related plate anymore, under kit cars its not listed there anymore.
[Edited on 9/8/13 by chrism]
Its not listed, but I emailed them last year when it was first removed from the site they confirmed its still a viable route,
Http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4201
Mistral Motorsport
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chrism
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| posted on 9/8/13 at 08:45 PM |
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Yeah doing a search I found the document that thread mentions,
(https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CDkQFjAB&url=http
s%3A%2F%2Fwww.dvla.gov.uk%2Fdvla%2Fforms%2F~%2Fmedia%2Fpdf%2Fleaflets%2Finf26.ashx&ei=zVAFUpnQH6-b0AWrjoHoDQ&usg=AFQjCNEk75CV8wzhzB13k74eHvoc8
Si-ew&sig2=SR_XpBVppa-6wuxTHXuRmQ) you only need 2 major parts so engine and gearbox will be OK. It does say that chassis must be from a
specialist kit manufacturer, but I suppose that building one yourself makes you a specialist, or maybe make 5 and say your a manufacturer. Still seems
like you could have problems if you get a jobsworth doing the registration which with the loss of the local offices could possibly happen. I'd
hope that it didnt happen though.
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A little hard work never killed anyone, but why take the risk!
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theprisioner
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| posted on 9/8/13 at 09:16 PM |
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I managed to get an age related plate with documents proving the engine and gearbox had been refurbished.
see: http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/26/viewthread.php?tid=183359
I think that was the right decision, Q plates give you licence to pollute the planet unlimited by any checks or balances. I think they try to give age
related plates where possible. I can send you the letter I got from DVLA if it helps (don't want to post it here).
http://sylvabuild.blogspot.com/
http://austin7special.blogspot.co.uk/
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chrism
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| posted on 9/8/13 at 09:43 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by theprisioner
I managed to get an age related plate with documents proving the engine and gearbox had been refurbished.
see: http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/26/viewthread.php?tid=183359
I think that was the right decision, Q plates give you licence to pollute the planet unlimited by any checks or balances. I think they try to give age
related plates where possible. I can send you the letter I got from DVLA if it helps (don't want to post it here).
Do newly registered Q plates not now get co2 levels printed on the V5 based on what engine is in when it is IVA'd.
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A little hard work never killed anyone, but why take the risk!
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 10/8/13 at 09:01 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by theprisioner
I think that was the right decision, Q plates give you licence to pollute the planet unlimited by any checks or balances.
Not actually true, the emissions on a Q plate are determined by the age of the engine when it was IVA'd.
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theprisioner
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| posted on 10/8/13 at 09:54 AM |
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Not actually true, just spoken to my local MoT man. He says if it has a Q plate they don't even test the emissions they only do a smoke test.
When I say a test it is a judgment call on how much smoke. Perhaps he has not had the up-to-date training on that one.
http://sylvabuild.blogspot.com/
http://austin7special.blogspot.co.uk/
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loggyboy
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| posted on 10/8/13 at 10:13 AM |
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All cars will have an emissions test based on engine age for IVA, as cars arent registered at that point. If you then register as a Q, you will only
be tested for visible smoke for MOTs.
Mistral Motorsport
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chrism
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| posted on 10/8/13 at 09:54 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by theprisioner
Not actually true, just spoken to my local MoT man. He says if it has a Q plate they don't even test the emissions they only do a smoke test.
When I say a test it is a judgment call on how much smoke. Perhaps he has not had the up-to-date training on that one.
Ive found this in the MOT testers handbook.
http://www.motuk.co.uk/images/730_newnoncat.pdf
Any kit car Q reg or not that was first registered after the SVA started should be tested to the emission limits printed on the V5 unless an older
engine has been fitted and then its the owners responsibility to prove the engine age to the MOT tester.
Also any kit car registered before SVA was introduced regardless of what reg is only a visual check.
It seems to be that a lot of MOT testers are not very clued up on the rules, but I doubt anyone is going to complain about this one.
[Edited on 10/8/13 by chrism]
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A little hard work never killed anyone, but why take the risk!
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loggyboy
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| posted on 10/8/13 at 10:23 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by chrism
Ive found this in the MOT testers handbook.
http://www.motuk.co.uk/images/730_newnoncat.pdf
Any kit car Q reg or not that was first registered after the SVA started should be tested to the emission limits printed on the V5 unless an older
engine has been fitted and then its the owners responsibility to prove the engine age to the MOT tester.
Also any kit car registered before SVA was introduced regardless of what reg is only a visual check.
It seems to be that a lot of MOT testers are not very clued up on the rules, but I doubt anyone is going to complain about this one.
[Edited on 10/8/13 by chrism]
It doesnt mention Qs in that pdf, only kit cars.
The beginning introduction states in the current online testers manual,
"Vehicles having a Q plate registration when presented for MOT are to be treated as being first used on 1 January 1971"
That mean for emissions visible smoke only.
It is in the section "How to use this manual" - section 3b
Link
[Edited on 10-8-13 by loggyboy]
Mistral Motorsport
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chrism
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| posted on 11/8/13 at 12:28 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
quote:
Originally posted by chrism
Ive found this in the MOT testers handbook.
http://www.motuk.co.uk/images/730_newnoncat.pdf
Any kit car Q reg or not that was first registered after the SVA started should be tested to the emission limits printed on the V5 unless an older
engine has been fitted and then its the owners responsibility to prove the engine age to the MOT tester.
Also any kit car registered before SVA was introduced regardless of what reg is only a visual check.
It seems to be that a lot of MOT testers are not very clued up on the rules, but I doubt anyone is going to complain about this one.
[Edited on 10/8/13 by chrism]
It doesnt mention Qs in that pdf, only kit cars.
The beginning introduction states in the current online testers manual,
"Vehicles having a Q plate registration when presented for MOT are to be treated as being first used on 1 January 1971"
That mean for emissions visible smoke only.
It is in the section "How to use this manual" - section 3b
Link
[Edited on 10-8-13 by loggyboy]
Ah I missed that bit, but it does still say that the the Q plate being classed as pre 1971 is only used when the first used date is not available or
incorrect, so not a blanket all Q reg cars and for a kit car that has been put through SVA/IVA I would have thought that the first used date would be
the date of registration which should come up on the vehicle information.
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A little hard work never killed anyone, but why take the risk!
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theprisioner
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| posted on 11/8/13 at 08:26 AM |
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My understanding is the IVA tester has no knowledge or interest (at present) what the registration status is (different department) he just applies
the current legislation on emissions (eg Lambda = 1.03). If subsequently the DVLA in their wisdom apply a Q plate this is where the ambiguity appears
to apply in the favour of the polluter.
http://sylvabuild.blogspot.com/
http://austin7special.blogspot.co.uk/
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loggyboy
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| posted on 11/8/13 at 09:08 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by chrism
Ah I missed that bit, but it does still say that the the Q plate being classed as pre 1971 is only used when the first used date is not available or
incorrect, so not a blanket all Q reg cars and for a kit car that has been put through SVA/IVA I would have thought that the first used date would be
the date of registration which should come up on the vehicle information.
The official manual is here, http://www.motinfo.gov.uk/htdocs/m4i00000001.htm
That specifically mentions emissions
Vehicles having a Q plate registration when presented for MOT are to be treated as follows: For emission purposes only, all these types are to be
considered as vehicles first used before 1 August 1975. For all other testing purposes they are to be considered as being first used on 1 January
1971, or c. In any other case, the earlier of either: · Its date of first registration, or · The date six months after it was manufactured.
Mistral Motorsport
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chrism
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| posted on 11/8/13 at 11:51 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
quote:
Originally posted by chrism
Ah I missed that bit, but it does still say that the the Q plate being classed as pre 1971 is only used when the first used date is not available or
incorrect, so not a blanket all Q reg cars and for a kit car that has been put through SVA/IVA I would have thought that the first used date would be
the date of registration which should come up on the vehicle information.
The official manual is here, http://www.motinfo.gov.uk/htdocs/m4i00000001.htm
That specifically mentions emissions
Vehicles having a Q plate registration when presented for MOT are to be treated as follows: For emission purposes only, all these types are to be
considered as vehicles first used before 1 August 1975. For all other testing purposes they are to be considered as being first used on 1 January
1971, or c. In any other case, the earlier of either: · Its date of first registration, or · The date six months after it was manufactured.
Yes but you seem to be ignorning the bit above it
"NT’s will normally be provided with the vehicle details as part of the Vehicle Specific Information supplied by the MOT database. This will
usually include the vehicle’s ‘first used’ date. Where this information is available, the NT should only use Reasons for Rejection applicable
to the vehicle’s age.
However, in cases where this information is not available or incorrect, the NT should determine the vehicle’s ‘first used’ date as
follows:"
So when the cars reg is put into the system if it comes up with a first used date then the emissions are based on that, and I would have thought that
any car thats been regsitered after SVA/IVA would have its first used date set after 1998 hence why it wouldnt just be a visual test. Its then upto
the vehicle presenter to prove the engine age if its an older engine for the emissions test as per the information on the emissions spread sheet I
posted ealier, or the emission levels on the V5 are used.
If it doesnt come up with a first used date then yes it will be a visual only for the emissions, but it seems every MOT garage has their own
interpretation of the rules anyway.
[Edited on 11/8/13 by chrism]
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A little hard work never killed anyone, but why take the risk!
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SteveWalker
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| posted on 11/8/13 at 12:45 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by chrism
Any kit car Q reg or not that was first registered after the SVA started should be tested to the emission limits printed on the V5 unless an older
engine has been fitted and then its the owners responsibility to prove the engine age to the MOT tester.
Also any kit car registered before SVA was introduced regardless of what reg is only a visual check.
Handily, after SVA, mine was Q-plated and the DVLA omitted to place the emissions on the V5. So it's always stayed as visible smoke only.
SteveW
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loggyboy
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| posted on 11/8/13 at 02:40 PM |
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For emissions, IF a Q plate has a first used date its overuled by the text ive already quoted.
Mistral Motorsport
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iank
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| posted on 11/8/13 at 03:01 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
For emissions, IF a Q plate has a first used date its overuled by the text ive already quoted.
Not by the link you posted it isn't.
Full quote
quote:
3. Vehicle ‘first used’ Dates - Application of Test Criteria NT’s will normally be provided with the vehicle details as part of the Vehicle Specific
Information supplied by the MOT database. This will usually include the vehicle’s ‘first used’ date. Where this information is available, the NT
should only use Reasons for Rejection applicable to the vehicle’s age. However, in cases where this information is not available or incorrect,
the NT should determine the vehicle’s ‘first used’ date as follows: a. Its date of manufacture, if the vehicle was originally used without being
registered in GB (e.g., an imported vehicle or ex-HM Forces vehicle), or b. Vehicles having a Q plate registration when presented for MOT are to be
treated as follows: For emission purposes only, all these types are to be considered as vehicles first used before 1 August 1975. For all other
testing purposes they are to be considered as being first used on 1 January 1971, or c. In any other case, the earlier of either: · Its date of
first registration, or · The date six months after it was manufactured. This information should be entered onto the VTS Device to enable the NT to
select the appropriate Reason for Rejection.
The text in b which talks about Q only applies if the bit I've highlighted in bold applies. i.e. the limits aren't included on the V5c/in
the computer.
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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spikehaus
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| posted on 14/8/13 at 04:50 PM |
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I received an age related number plate this week from the DVLA, I also used a 4x4 engine, gearbox, rear diff etc with a new homemade chassis.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/29404787@N03/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/41021922@N03/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/56936222@N04/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/79486076@N06/
Finished my roadster after 5 years!
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