T0MMY
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| posted on 12/5/14 at 01:15 PM |
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MNR Vortx R1 project
Hello chaps, thought I'd introduce myself before I start bombarding the forum with technical questions!
Just bought a 5PW powered Vortx that could best be described as a project car...sort of a non-runner in as much as it wasn't entirely in one
piece when I bought it but I've been assured it was running (badly) before. I guess time will tell.
It is cosmetically challenged too but it was cheap so hopefully decent value as a trackcar with limited road use. It's FFTS's old car
from doing a bit of snooping; not sure if anyone knows it.
Anyway I have it back in one piece barring a few missing bolts so will be trying to start it tonight when I get some fuel and water in it. Electrics
seem to be working and it's getting a spark so fingers crossed!
I know almost nothing about these cars yet so I expect I will have a few questions as I work on it. Anyone have a link to the build manual?
It's an outboard suspension model built in 2005 I think.
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Digimon
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| posted on 12/5/14 at 03:39 PM |
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Welcome to the forum
Get some photos up when you can 
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kj
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| posted on 12/5/14 at 03:52 PM |
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Just had a look at some of the pics on FFTS, whats your location it can help.
Think about it, think about it again and then do it.
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T0MMY
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| posted on 12/5/14 at 04:58 PM |
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Yep, there are some pics on the "show us your vortx" thread that show the car in one piece. Not the best looking Vortx in the world to be
honest but I bought it to drive it so won't worry too much about the looks just yet.
I'm in Peterborough but work in Bury St Edmunds which will be handy for visiting AB performance as I'm sure I will be doing fairly
frequently!
Just drained, flushed and refilled the cooling system, chucked some fuel in and...it started on the first turn of the key Revved up to 7k then
settled down and started popping and banging, at which point I turned it off and put down my fire extinguisher...
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Digimon
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| posted on 12/5/14 at 05:24 PM |
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Sounds like a promising start
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mark w
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| posted on 14/5/14 at 07:27 AM |
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Welcome to the forum, I'm not to far from Peterborough & I'm running a 5pw in my Vortx so if you need any advice or spares I'll
be able to help you out
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T0MMY
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| posted on 14/5/14 at 08:17 AM |
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Thanks Mark. I'm getting it MOTed this weekend hopefully so I'm sure I'll start discovering its faults as I start driving it!
Do you take yours on track or just use it on the road? On-track reliability is my main aim at the moment but I think I have a fairly good idea of
what's required. Just wondering how well the cooling system will cope though...
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Digimon
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| posted on 14/5/14 at 08:31 AM |
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I mainly used mini on the track, I've not had any problems with cooling yet with my polo rad
I think the fan only turned on once last year at a trackday but it was one of the hottest days of the year
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T0MMY
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| posted on 14/5/14 at 10:50 AM |
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Mine has a switch to turn on the fan manually, not sure if that means it wouldn't turn on automatically too though?
Just been out tinkering again and I'm having second thoughts about MOTing it this weekend! Think it needs a little more work as the indicators
are hit and miss (it's the switch on the stalk playing up) and the speedo isn't working. It's also decided it's new idle
speed is about 5k rpm now...previously it just shot up to that then came back down.
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mark w
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| posted on 14/5/14 at 04:52 PM |
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Sounds like throttle position sensor fault to me, I'm using mine for road mainly but I'm going to sneak in a few trackdays in for good
measure! Are you running standard 5pw clocks if so then diagnostic mode built in mate
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T0MMY
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| posted on 14/5/14 at 05:08 PM |
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Not got the original clocks unfortunately; revotec gauges.
I just had a look at the power commander map. No idea at all what I'm doing with this but at idle it was showing the throttle position as 55%.
I'm going to start a separate thread about this as I need to learn how to use the thing.
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mark w
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| posted on 14/5/14 at 08:51 PM |
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If in doubt disconnect the power commander & let it run off standard ecu, I've got plenty of maps that I have run if you want to play around
with it
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T0MMY
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| posted on 14/5/14 at 09:50 PM |
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I'll give that a try tomorrow. Also downloaded a standard map to suit which I can try.
I'm wondering about the power commander reading a closed throttle as 55%...Could that indicate an issue with the TPS or has the map got messed
up at some point? It seems to read consistent values for the throttle position so the TPS must work to some extent. I've recalibrated it so it
now reads 0-100% again which seems to have helped but not cured the issue.
[Edited on 14/5/14 by T0MMY]
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T0MMY
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| posted on 16/5/14 at 05:43 PM |
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Turns out in addition to the PC being calibrated wrong, the idle was just set WAY too high! Car is now running nicely and, amazingly, passed
it's MOT today with just advisory on the rear tyres and a couple of bulbs replaced.
This car is starting to look like a bit of a bargain as the issues it was meant to have have been very easy (and free) to fix so far. Just need to
work on the clutch action now as it's a real pain in the arse to pull away at the moment.
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cerbera
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| posted on 16/5/14 at 06:44 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by T0MMY
Just need to work on the clutch action now as it's a real pain in the arse to pull away at the moment.
Nice one.
FFTS used to struggle alot trying to pull away. If I remember right the clutch was a bit on / off with no middle ground. He queried it in
this post, so might give you a starter for ten.
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T0MMY
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| posted on 16/5/14 at 11:12 PM |
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Thanks for that Cerbera, very interesting reading that. Seems like the revving issue was present for a long time on this car but it turned out to be
a very easy fix! Curing that has also made it easier to use the clutch as it runs better low down so is less snatchy and prone to stalling but I
think there is a more fundamental issue with the clutch set up.
I'm going to sort it even if it needs a whole new arrangement because this has the potential to be a very good car again; it's already
transformed just by sorting out the mapping a bit and I drove for 3 trouble free hours today. I have a theory about it based on the fact it
apparently has a locking clutch...could it be overweighted so the centrifugal force at higher revs makes it clamp too strongly? As I understand it
you alter the clamping force by adding more weight. It pulls away ok at very low revs but trying to give it beans makes it too grabby...that seems to
fit for me.
Anyway I'll have a look at the clutch tomorrow and see what's going on...the pivot point looks good as it's offering long pedal
travel so a "wider" biting point.
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renetom
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| posted on 17/5/14 at 06:52 AM |
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Hi
This clutch mod may help
 
Clutch mod
This is our waterworks works fine road or track.
 
Waterworks R1 Indy
Good luck
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mark w
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| posted on 17/5/14 at 07:15 AM |
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Is it that the pedal is really light & your not getting much feel of the biting point? Has it had the double diaphragm spring modification? Well
done on the mot pass as well mate, where did u take it? where abouts are you in Peterborough?
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T0MMY
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| posted on 17/5/14 at 08:28 AM |
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The clutch arm has already been extended, just a section welded in by the looks of it. The pedal feels very slightly "grabby" as you
bring it up, presumably just the cable routing or lubrication, but I think the problem is more than that. It's not so much that you can't
feel the biting point, more that it seems to have hardly any range of slip. Like FFTS said in that thread, it's either not engaged or fully
engaged!
The best way to pull away is to bring it up infinitesimally slowly without giving it any revs at all in which case it gradually starts to move away at
a snails pace at which point you can bring the clutch fully up then give it revs. You can also just give it a load of revs and dump it and
it'll shoot off the line wheelspinning...basically FFTS described it quite well in his post. I'll take a look today and see what clutch
arrangement it has, what is the double diaphragm spring modification?
Mark: I'm in Longthorpe but I got the car MOTed down in Graveley.
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T0MMY
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| posted on 17/5/14 at 11:07 AM |
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Ok, had a quick look through the oil filler hole and it doesn't look like a lock up clutch to me. It is definitely not the standard Yamaha
arrangement though as it has springs rather than a spring plate so I think it's just a standard barnett clutch. From FFTS's post it seems
it has very strong springs so I wonder if just weaker springs might sort it? Anyone tried different strength springs? Doesn't really seem that
it would make much difference as the pedal weight is light anyway given the leverage it has.
Also, do you actually need to drop the oil to take off the clutch cover? The oil level is below the clutch so I don't see why you need to drain
it but the manual seems to say you do.
[Edited on 17/5/14 by T0MMY]
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gaz_gaz
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| posted on 17/5/14 at 11:36 AM |
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on my old R1 car I ran a stock clutch but used 2 diaphram springs.
It made the clutch feel loads better. and no slip when I sold the car 8k miles later.
I tried the barnett uograde with 6 springs and it made the clutch really snatchy.
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T0MMY
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| posted on 17/5/14 at 11:57 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by gaz_gaz
on my old R1 car I ran a stock clutch but used 2 diaphram springs.
It made the clutch feel loads better. and no slip when I sold the car 8k miles later.
I tried the barnett uograde with 6 springs and it made the clutch really snatchy.
Interesting...might be something to try but I wonder how much the parts would cost to go back to standard? Do you know what springs you had in the
barnett upgrade?
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mark w
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| posted on 17/5/14 at 08:07 PM |
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I've got a spare standard clutch basket complete & a couple of spring plates if you want to give it a go? You don't need to drop the
oil to change it but you will lose a very small amount. Might need to revert Back to a standard lever though & I'm sure I've got 1 of
them somewhere as well
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T0MMY
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| posted on 18/5/14 at 09:50 AM |
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Might take you up on that Mark, thanks.
I've ordered a clutch cover gasket and the clutch lever shaft oil seal too as there's a leak from somewhere round there so I have to get
in there anyway.
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