craig1410
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 posted on 6/9/03 at 08:21 PM |
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How to get away with a speeding fine!
Hi,
Has anyone been following this stuff about the two policemen getting off speeding charges because of a technicality in the design of the speed camera
signs?
http://www.endlessrealms.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3189
I got charged with doing 72Mph in a temporary 60MPH speed limit which has now been returned to 70MPH and right next to it is one of these signs
(number 2 in the above website). The charge only cost me 3 points (my first) and £60 so it's not worth me hiring a lawyer as I'm not sure
if this law applies in Scotland or not. Any lawyers out there care to comment? Fancy taking on my appeal? If you win you can keep the £60 and
I'll have the three points back. I'm sure that many other motorists who have been caught by the big blue camera van on the A77 would also
be more than happy to do likewise. 
Cheers,
Craig.
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 6/9/03 at 10:59 PM |
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thats not the way i heard it
dont all camera signs look like that?
I heard it was a composite sign - the type that had both the cam and speed sign in the same panel. The speed sign shouldnt have the black border
around that part, only the cam bit.
atb
steve
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JoelP
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| posted on 6/9/03 at 11:21 PM |
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I (hypothetically of course!) got off one by saying i'd sold the car to a fictional person, and then later applying for a new log book. I got a
160 fine for not registering it right, but that beats 3 points all day long.
When i recieved the letter from the camera shop, just filled in duff details and pretended the V5 got lost in post.
Worked well but i had to deal with a phone call from Billy about the picture, cos it was a temp camera they actually had a mug shot! so i gave my
description for the bloke i sold it to!
When picking an address choose a known road and postcode and then get a number just off the top so noone recieves the V5 or summons.
Disclaimer etc etc... all lies etc etc
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bike_power
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| posted on 7/9/03 at 08:22 AM |
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How can you apply for a new log book for a car you claim to have sold ? Didn't they check ?
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JoelP
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| posted on 7/9/03 at 10:28 AM |
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Pretended i'd just bought it off the chap who was made up. The car was initially registered to my mate who i bought it off, so my name
didn't come up twice.
My pal recieved the initial summons, rang me moaning, so i made up the details for him to fill in the form, then a few weeks later applied for a V5
saying i'd bought it off that same fella. Duly the summons arrived for me, and i insisted i'd only just bought it.
Mean time my pal got fined for not registering it, so i sorted him the dough for the favour (lying).
If the car was already registered to you, u'd have to get a pal to pretend they bought it off the fictional person, which could be hard if they
weren't very useful, otherwise you couldn't get the car log book back. Neither of you can get caught out if you keep insisting neither of
you was the driver. Doesn't really work if you want to keep the car cos the plan is to get rid, and you can't drive it in a mates name
forever.
Thats another reason why i drive shite small cars that you dont feel attached to, so you can flog them if it goes bent.
If you see the camera flash you can fill in the V5 for real in a fake name, and preempt them. adds to the realism...
Car stays yours, but make sure you pick a good address incase someone trys to pretend they did buy the car!
Most things are blaggable with careful planning, unless the blue ones catch you at it personally...!
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craig1410
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| posted on 7/9/03 at 11:50 AM |
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Bloody hell! That's probably the most audacious thing I've ever heard!! Well done that man, I love to hear of people getting away with
stuff like that 
Steve, that might explain it (the speed limit being part of the signs) but I have not seen any pictures of the signs in question so I can't
confirm it. Does anyone come from the Cleveland area sho can confirm the design of the signs in question?
Cheers,
Craig.
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 7/9/03 at 08:21 PM |
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Joel: cool! Thats similar to an idea I had. If I was on the last legs of my points, I reconed that driving a car you could afford to trash if you got
nicked again would be a plan. You get the summons, then pretend to 'sell' the car to a fictitious person a few days before. Dump the car
somewhere.
Then you just pretend that the new owner dumped it . I dont see how you could get the rap for not informing the car was sold in a few days cos the law
allows a 'reasonable time'. Between getting a ticket and a 'sold' car would be less than 14 days.
atb
steve
Craig :I think we have the signs like that in northanst. If im not too lazy I will see if I can get some piccies...
atb
steve
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craig1410
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| posted on 7/9/03 at 08:33 PM |
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Steve,
Yeah it looks like it won't fly for others anyway according to this:
http://www.clevelandmagistrates.org.uk/speed.htm
Cheers,
Craig.
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andyps
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| posted on 7/9/03 at 09:03 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
Steve,
Yeah it looks like it won't fly for others anyway according to this:
http://www.clevelandmagistrates.org.uk/speed.htm
Cheers,
Craig.
Looks like the only way to beat the system is to become a cop!!
Andy
An expert is someone who knows more and more about less and less
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bike_power
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| posted on 7/9/03 at 09:19 PM |
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Sounds good, I like using the system to beat the system.
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 8/9/03 at 09:42 AM |
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The law tends to rapidly close any loopholes, and at the end of the day, the 'reasonable man' would expect a speed sign, whatever its
style, to be fair warning.
There was the case of a footballer recently getting off cos he admitted on the form that it wa shim, but didnt sign it.
He complied with giving the info, so couldnt be done for that. But not signing it meant its not admissable in court.
SO, at present ypou can technically 'get off' by filling in the form saying its you, bit not signing it.
Suspect this will be fixed soon.
I refused to fill one of these forms in at all in 2000. Northants police sent 2 cops on a 50 mile round trip to interview me at my place of work for 1
1/2 hrs. My crime? 71 mph on a 60 road that was sandwitched between two 70 mph bits and had also been 70 untila few months before. 180 fine.
thats less than id get for robbing a shop or smashing a phone box.
I still recon the 'I sold it' idea would work.....
atb
steve
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Avoneer
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| posted on 8/9/03 at 07:56 PM |
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Yeah, but you'd get a criminal conviction for smashing a phone box or robbing a shop!
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 8/9/03 at 09:42 PM |
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what make ya think I havnt.
I stole a bar of chokkie when I was eight - does that count? 
And no, it wasnt last year....
atb
steve
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tadltd
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| posted on 9/9/03 at 11:59 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
... I'm sure that many other motorists who have been caught by the big blue camera van on the A77 would also be more than happy to do
likewise...
Craig,
I frequent the A77 - where can I expect to see said van, mostly? North or south of Kilmarnock? Favourite hiding place? Ever been seen frequently on
the A71 or other roads in the 'neighbourhood'?
I was 'caught' speeding a few months ago in Darvel. I appealed to the friendly Procurator Fiscal in Kilmarnock and was let off before it
ever got to court. IMO - it's worth stating your case.
Steve.
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craig1410
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| posted on 10/9/03 at 08:29 AM |
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Steve,
It is always (in my experience) parked on the East side of the A77 just north of the Fenwick Hotel in a little layby near some trees or bushes. It
catches southbound traffic only as far as I can tell and is a forward facing camera so it gets your mugshot too. I understand that it actually
captures video rather than stills so even if your face is obscured whilst 400meters away, by the time you get closer the chances are that you will be
looking at the camera and pointing it out to your passenger...
So watch out when coming southbound in daylight hours, I always tuck in behind someone else or just slow down to 60MPH as a precaution. I then make a
point of accelerating past again if its not there just for badness... (childish I know but satisfying...)
What did you say to the procurator fiscal to get hime to let you off??? I tried the old trick of "I'm not sure who was driving but I am
keen to co-operate if you can provide me with a copy of the photo." I said it was either myself or my wife driving but couldn't be
certain. They invited me to go to the police station to look at their evidence but my Wife's bottle went and I had to cough up to avoid a
domestic... 
Anyway, I hope the above information helps you to avoid the "Strathclyde safety camera partnership" snake in the grass.
Remember, "Camera's cut crashes" (Bollocks!)
Cheers,
Craig.
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tadltd
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| posted on 10/9/03 at 08:49 AM |
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Craig,
I was nabbed by a secluded patrol car (which shouldn't have been secluded) and good old speed gun. I was doing 41 (according to their gun) in a
30.
When I was initially stopped, the officer that approached the car was willing to issue a HORTI and let that be the end of it. But when I was invited
for a seat in the patrol car, his partner was writing a ticket and was intent on issuing it. It was this that enraged me, and I believe the
contradictory attitudes of the officers is what sunk the case. There were a few technicalities on their side that were a bit shaky and may not have
stood up in court.
For example, did you know that patrol cars must be subjected to a daily inspection before they leave the station? If not, they shouldn't really
be on the road. Further, they decided to park on private property and I questioned whether they had received permission to do so. I also questioned
the calibration of the gun. Also, if I pleaded not guilty to the charge I would be subject to charges of dangerous and/or reckless driving - laughable
under the circumstances as I was travelling on a deserted, well lit, straight, dry road late at night. I'd challenged them to prove that I was
driving recklessly or dangerously under those circumstances. Moreover, I asked why that patrol wasn't in position at more sensible times of the
day like early morning and late afternoon when school kids are about, and that such policing as I experienced only breeds contempt for the law,,
wasting the court's time with fickle speeding fines.
Aside from that, I made a clear explanation of why I was travelling at that speed (to attend to an urgent family matter) and pointed out that it was
something I didn't make a habit of. So I think that all this combined served to prove that I wasn't a numpty and was simply a guy trying
to get home quickly.
The point is, if you can convince them that you had a reasonable excuse for travelling at that speed (providing you weren't speeding
excessively), and ask them to exercise discretion (as I did) then they may well be satisfied that you don't deserve the conviction.
Steve. *phew*
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 10/9/03 at 10:10 AM |
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if you can talk with a human being at the point of 'nick' you have a chance.
I got caught 3 years ago doing 48 down a hill from a 60 zone into a village and was gunned. I told the copper he was totally right to do that as I
agreed it was too fast and I had carried too much speed from the 60 (80+!) area. He sypathetically agreed with me, looking rather suprised, but still
issued the ticket. That didnt work!
Got stopped a month ago, doing 65 in a very safe 40 zone on an industrial estate. Copper asked me if I was late for work and after sympathetic
co-operatin from me, I got let off.
There are some decent coppers around if you can find em.
atb
steve
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