indykid
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| posted on 5/6/08 at 11:13 PM |
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new (to me) tin top - advice please
right, as the cost of petrol spirals, i'm getting sick of forking out to fill a mk2 cavalier, donated to me by my dad from his collection.
it's got a weber carb on it and does 20mpg on a good day. it's only a 1.6 too
i want something with a small engine for better economy and also insurance. i've been on my dad's policy up til now but figured since i
was actually buying a car now, i might as well insure it too.
i've looked through all sorts and come upon a lupo or an arosa. around a '99/'00. they look small enough to maybe handle like go
karts (though i'm probably wrong) and with a 1 litre engine, will need plenty of driver input to progress at any pace so keeping my mind active.
i'm not massively interested in going anywhere fast though really.
i'd considered the 1.4 but it's about another £300 to insure them plus the greater vehicle cost.
i can't quite get to liking the looks of the arosa, but the lupo i've always found acceptable.
so does anyone have one? does swmbo have one? which is most promising or are both dire? interior trim quality? what about 1.0 vs 1.4? i'll
probably miss the cav when it's gone but it really pains me to keep putting petrol in it.
cheers
tom
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 6/6/08 at 12:51 AM |
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The cavalier should be getting around 35mpg, still low but I bet it’s not jetted right.
Can’t say I'd recommend a small engined, small car as I've had them and they really suck, plus they are death traps in a crash. They also
tend to be the same cars the stupid boy racers use so the insurance will be terrible. I'd also recommend you keep going on your dads insurance
as IMOP the no claim’s thing is a scam until you are past 25 years old. Go for a 4 door family car of around 1.6-1.8, don't modify it at all,
nothing and the insurance will be fine. Even my old bluebird does 45mpg and it a 1.8, an injection car will do even better easily. Cars are probably
at there cheapest ever now that they no longer rust.
Next doors wife has an Arosa (a red one), been in it, ghastly noisy thing, goes through wheel bearings like nothing else and gets a yearly repay as
that’s about as long as the paint lasts 
Never been in a Lupo, don’t think I ever will either
Stay away from small Fiat’s, they are total utter junk, been there done that, should have listened to everyone else you have been warned…
One option might be to put aside the cav's engine and fit a modern one instead, dead easy really and engines can be bought for little money.
Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet
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aaron bassett
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| posted on 6/6/08 at 06:36 AM |
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got a low milage fare condition rover 100 on a r
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DaveFJ
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| posted on 6/6/08 at 07:35 AM |
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small fiats are a good bet, dunno where some people get their info - I have never had a problem with a fiat and my Stilo was MUCH better built than my
crappy Honda Civic!
[Edited on 6-6-08 by DaveFJ]
Dave
"In Support of Help the Heroes" - Always
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indykid
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| posted on 6/6/08 at 07:49 AM |
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i know you'll probably kill me for mentioning it mr whippy but i was also considering a vectra on lpg or an astra duelfuel. i'd also
pondered diesel but the price is getting silly. i've driven mk2 and 3 cavaliers since passing my test and much prefer a proper sized saloon.
swmbo's got a 1.25 fiesta that i drove a bit at christmas and it was pretty painful.
i may have to look more closely at an angine swap, maybe for a later vx 1.6 16v. my dad'd be happy at least since he gets to hold onto another
mk2 cav (he's currently got 4) and i do actually enjoy driving something so unassisted. only problem is we're soon to lose our workshop
space so unless i could do it in the next fortnight, it's maybe not so feasible.
cheers and keep any useful tit bits coming
tom
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DaveFJ
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| posted on 6/6/08 at 07:53 AM |
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Diesel is getting ridiculous.. we made the swap last year and get about 34mpg around town, which isn't bad but with the price of diesel now it
works out I am no better off than in a petrol car....
At our local Esso, diesel is currently going up at 3p per week!!
Dave
"In Support of Help the Heroes" - Always
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Dangle_kt
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| posted on 6/6/08 at 07:54 AM |
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I had a 1.9 deisel citreon ZX, I'm pretty sure you can use cooking oil in them no problems - (but check)
Super reliable, larger than a supermini, and strong enough to tow too!
[Edited on 6/6/08 by Dangle_kt]
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mcerd1
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| posted on 6/6/08 at 07:57 AM |
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106 / Saxo's are ok
cheap and chearful - some things could be better but they are basicaly alright
my 1.0 carb'd, 4spd one managed 37mpg on short trips without trying and 55+mpg on long motorway trips
and thats dispite having 100k on the clock and never having any major work done
as long as you stick to 1.0 (or 1.1's at a push) you should still get a cheapish insurance - the 1.4 / 1.6's are prime boy racer
teraotory
my 1.0 was £250/y for TP only when I was 21 (2 years NCD) and the last renawal it was £180 (6 years NCD)
[Edited on 6/6/08 by mcerd1]
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ned
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| posted on 6/6/08 at 08:47 AM |
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My ex had an arosa some years ago, it was a 1ltr. At anything over 90mph it made the cd skip and was rather noisy and unrefined. it also moved like a
snail, even if you were trying to boot it. Build quality was ok/good but it was a very low spec car and as the lupo was very new at the time getting
pattern parts was an issue at the time but that's probably changed now.
I had a saxo 1.1 and my mate had a 1ltr about 8-9 years ago and they were good little cars excepting the odd french build quality issue, but
they're cheap to run and insure, not bad to drive and should get over 40mpg unless you drive it like it's stolen.
The skoda felicia is actually quite a good car, the 1.3 or 1.6 should get over 40mpg, they're very cheap to buy and run if you don't mind
driving a skoda - there's 2x felicia's in my family and they've had fabia's and octavia's and an estelle aswell!
Ned.
ps you probably wouldn't go far wrong with a corsa or fiesta either. just buy a cheap basic model that's been well looked after and
don't modify it - goes for any of the above cars too of course!
[Edited on 6/6/08 by ned]
beware, I've got yellow skin
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dhutch
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| posted on 6/6/08 at 09:36 AM |
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Pug 306?
- If you cant beat them, join them. Ive got a 1.8 v-reg which cost me £1800 to buy, £750 insurence with one years named driver no claims TPFT.
- Drives well, shouldnt have any real issues on MOT, returns about 35mpg, 40 on long gentle runs. The 1.6 i had before wat £700 insurence and did
around 38 to the gallon average.
Daniel
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 6/6/08 at 09:53 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by DaveFJ
small fiats are a good bet, dunno where some people get their info - I have never had a problem with a fiat and my Stilo was MUCH better built than my
crappy Honda Civic!
[Edited on 6-6-08 by DaveFJ]
have a look underneath them and you see that there is zero rust proofing, mine and a friends one were covered in rust in the arches and on the floor
(mine actually had two holes in a crossmember) despite being only 4 years old and I always kept mine clean since it was white. Engine cut out several
times, head gasket blew, brakes were awful. Friends clutch failed and I had to tow him home at which point the towing eye ripped right out the front.
Very very noisy, handling was dreadful (once did a 360 spin crossing a large round about without any warning). In the end I flattened it with my
digger.
So no, their still rubbish.
Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet
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DaveFJ
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| posted on 6/6/08 at 09:58 AM |
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As I say - had several Fiats and they have never given me any trouble at all... Stilo was 5 years old when sold and spotless, no rust at all, no
mechanical problems, no electrical problems and completely rattle free. My Honda was brand nerwe last year and has broken down 3 times already.
rattles like a babys toy and generally sucks! (not good for a 25k car!)
now if we want talk about renaults!!!!
Every single renault i have ever driven (about 10 I suppose) (including hire cars!) has let me down!
Dave
"In Support of Help the Heroes" - Always
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McLannahan
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| posted on 6/6/08 at 10:18 AM |
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I agree with Whipster on the Fiat debate. Sister had an Uno, dreadful car and just wouldn't do hills. She had it from new and it was just so bad
she had to nearly give it away. Sister-in-law had a Panda. It wasn't that cheap to run, service and so so thin in quality. Don't think she
would have stood a chance in it what so ever. Brother has a Stilo and it's a disgrace. All the electronics have gone wrong, aircon has never
worked properly and everytime it comes to a service with it there's something serious wrong and major money needed. Parts aren't cheap for
it either!
That's my experiences with Fiat - I'd not touch a small Fiat with pole that's meant for barges....
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iank
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| posted on 6/6/08 at 10:25 AM |
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How old were these terrible Fiats? 80's, 90's?
My wifes 07 Punto is very good - maybe they've improved (as VW has gone downhill a tad).
Just goes to show how a bad reputation can get repeated as current fact even years later.
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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McLannahan
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| posted on 6/6/08 at 10:29 AM |
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Ian - Uno was 1992, Panda was admitedly 1988 I think? But Stilo is a 54 I think? They may well have improved - I do very much like the new 500 but
it's a little too early to see how they're fairing on the roads!
You're right about VW - I think quality has taken a right dive recently. My old MK1 Golf will probably outlast my Polish built 53 Passat!
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02GF74
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| posted on 6/6/08 at 10:44 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
Can’t say I'd recommend a small engined, small car as I've had them and they really suck, plus they are death traps in a crash.
I am not so sure this applies to some of the modern ones e.g. the smart car.
it wouldn't surprise me if a modern small car outperforms a larger old car but modern big cars will be offer better protection - hence
popularity, be it correct or not, of SUVs.
there is lot of stuff about crash protetion on the web but depending on who is conduction them, they may be crashed in such a was so the nodel being
promoted performs best.
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indykid
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| posted on 6/6/08 at 12:07 PM |
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well after sparking so much debate, i thank you all for your opinions, but i think mr whippy might have found the solution.
i've spent my morning looking at a c16xe or x16xe conversion for the cav.
the pros are
-i'm not taking on anyone elses problems with running gear, all of which i know is very sound on mine. (it's only done 50k even though
it's an 87)
-it's vauxhall and they've always proven to be very reliable in my experience
-it means my dad can keep another in his fleet so should be happy to insure it
-it's a project and i like them
-39mpg and 100bhp
-parts are peanuts and we have heaps and heaps of spares
-i get a car with character
cons
-limited time to sort the conversion
-currently have no welder for modding exhaust
-ecu may have an immobiliser depending on which engine i go for (needs key, transponder ring and matched ecu on x16 engine)
-not an OE solution
i have all the time in the world since i'm now on uni summer holiday...........so just need to find a decent donor and get the nod from my dad
since it's his car.
tom
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britishtrident
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| posted on 6/6/08 at 01:11 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by DaveFJ
small fiats are a good bet, dunno where some people get their info - I have never had a problem with a fiat and my Stilo was MUCH better built than my
crappy Honda Civic!
[Edited on 6-6-08 by DaveFJ]
With small Fiats Head gaskets are almost a service part --- seems to be mileage related, also Italian electrical systems are not exactly the best in
the world esprcially in the damp UK climate.
[Edited on 6/6/08 by britishtrident]
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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britishtrident
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| posted on 6/6/08 at 01:25 PM |
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Something is far wrong if the fuel consumption on the Vauxhall is so bad it should better 30mpg even absolutely hammering in urban it getting below 24
isn't normal.
On the Vauxhall I would
(1) check the carb isn't flooding or the choke sticking on,
(2) Check the airfilter is clean
(3) Do a compression test and check the valve clearances and cam timing.
If the car really is a Mk2 Cavalier it must be pretty old (ie the MK2 was first FWD Cavalier model) --- if that is the case it is unlikely to
have valve seats suitable for unleaded fuel ---- hence possible valve problem which will cause excessive fuel consumption.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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britishtrident
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| posted on 6/6/08 at 01:42 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by McLannahan
Ian - Uno was 1992, Panda was admitedly 1988 I think? But Stilo is a 54 I think? They may well have improved - I do very much like the new 500 but
it's a little too early to see how they're fairing on the roads!
You're right about VW - I think quality has taken a right dive recently. My old MK1 Golf will probably outlast my Polish built 53 Passat!
These days unless a specific model has a known serious fault it dosen't make much difference what you buy as your are buying a car built from a
common pool of parts.
Problem with VW and with most other european manufacturers such as Peugeot is that europe wide most of the propitiatory components are now sourced
from Valeo and a handful of other companies. So not only is the quality no beter or worse than any other manufacturers if any of these suppliers
redesign a component and make a mess of it it affects just about every car manufacturer ----- I can think of examples such as:in tank fuel filters
that come apart, handbrake levers that release at the slightest knock, flasher light fittings prone to iffy connections, airbag connections that give
spurious SRS warnings, MAF sensor faults ......
[Edited on 6/6/08 by britishtrident]
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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britishtrident
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| posted on 6/6/08 at 01:54 PM |
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Are Fiats still prone to the famous alarm ECU problem ?
Without any warning the ecu suddenly forgets all the keys programmed into it, problem is even the dealler can't program the keys back in because
the red master key is also forgotten.
Result bill for £1300 for a new ECU and dealer time to program it back in.
So boffin can now apparently reprogram the ECU off car by making unofficial mods to the circuit board but it takes about 10 to 14 days to get the
ECU back by post.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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indykid
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| posted on 6/6/08 at 04:36 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
Something is far wrong if the fuel consumption on the Vauxhall is so bad it should better 30mpg even absolutely hammering in urban it getting below 24
isn't normal.
On the Vauxhall I would
(1) check the carb isn't flooding or the choke sticking on,
(2) Check the airfilter is clean
(3) Do a compression test and check the valve clearances and cam timing.
If the car really is a Mk2 Cavalier it must be pretty old (ie the MK2 was first FWD Cavalier model) --- if that is the case it is unlikely to
have valve seats suitable for unleaded fuel ---- hence possible valve problem which will cause excessive fuel consumption.
cheers BT
yes, it REALLY IS a mk2 cavalier. it was born 2 years after me, but i can guarantee you that's what it is. it's on an E plate and does
have valve seats deigned for unleaded.
it's an aftermarket weber carb and yes, the jets are probably oversized but the choke does come off completely and the filter's clean.
on a long run, it can just about manage 30mpg but that's sitting at 60 on a motorway run. i'm pretty sure even brand new with the standard
carb they'd never manage 30mpg combined or urban whichever way you cut it.
previous to this one, i had a 1.6 SPi mk3 and that would do 27mpg wherever it went, whether you booted it or drove like a grandma.
modern multipoint seems to be the way forward but i still quite enjoy driving this bodyshell.
tom
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 6/6/08 at 06:00 PM |
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(3) Do a compression test and check the valve clearances and cam timing.
Hydraulic tappets so checking the valve clearances probably won't help . Check the vacuum advance in the distributor , they fail and will
cause high fuel consumption . Second the air filter.
Is the engine reaching normal operating temperature?
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