This of course is a 'theoretical' question for me 'cause I'm already happily married to a 4AGE. But as my real wife says "It doesn't matter where you get your appetite, as long as you eat at home."

So just like talking about pretty women that I can't have, I am wondering what type of FWD drivetrain would look and perform the best in the back of my little Middy.

Issues such as power, expense to increase power, weight, fitment and junkyard availablity are all open to discussion.

My thought is that the WRX Boxer engine would be a fine choice. Low CG, compact and easily upgraded in power. However, they are expensive and difficult to find in the boneyard. I would also have to redesign the rear suspension of my car to accomodate the transaxle in addition to welding the rear output to convert it into 2wd.

The Nissan SR20DET would be a good choice although once again, too expensive to fall into the 'Locost' category and not too many available.

The Toyota 4AGZE is a fine little engine. If the supercharger is replaced with a turbo, it is capable of some astounding HP figures. Hard to find anymore these days because it seems that every Drifting driver and his brother are buying up the old RWD Toyotas and dropping these engines in for power...

The Toyota 3SGTE is a great choice too. More and more showing up in the junkyards, but still expensive...

Honda? Too expensive IMHO.

Ford? Focus drivetrain sounds good, but still too expensive?

Anyone care to contribute their knowledge/opinion to the list? Something I haven't thought of?

Graber

Audi 1.8T. 330 bhp seems to be "relatively" easy to achieve.

Steve, some nice supercharged V6's in domestic FWD GMs...can't be too expensive.....plus I think they come with Getrag 5 speed which is pretty robust.....

Lots of info. from the Fiero guys.

Oooh Audi. Yessss. But pricey!

Alan, aren't those USA lumps pretty heavy for their power output? Compared to some of the Jap stuff?

Damn Steve....I'm getting all the wrong answers today..

I would say yes, they were heavier than the engines you mentioned, but mainly through being V6's rather than inline 4's....and their specific power outputs aren't stellar..........but.......

plentiful and cheap....

At least 240HP stock

http://www.gm.com/automotive/gmpowertrain/engines/gmpow/l67.htm

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Ford? Focus drivetrain sounds good, but still too expensive?

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Steve...for Mondeo read Contour...

Dave, yes good choice..plenty of them here...

Steve, www.car-part.com shows 13 pages of Ex Contour Zetecs, and 7 pages of Duratechs...

Worth considering?

Aha, yes. 240HP. That's substantial.

I wonder... (he says; wondering out loud...) what is the most bang for buck drivetrain out there? In stock form, suitable for transplatation into lightweight middy chassis... Are we immediately looking into the V6's? Chevy/Ford? What about some of the Korean automakers? I don't hear much about those drivetrains. Is that because they are crap? I would think that a Hyundai Tiburon V6 would make a good donor....

Why not use a 3.5L vq35de (or older 3L, vq30de) nissan maxima. Very strong engine, 260 hp in 3.5L version.

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Originally posted by Alan B
Steve...for Mondeo read Contour...

Dave, yes good choice..plenty of them here...

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Totally against the trend, I would want a very lightweight engine, with a moderate power output, I used to have a Fiat panda with a 70BHP FIRE engine, only 999cc but GREAT fun. I could pick up the engine from the bench and attach it to the hoist by hand!

A different driving technique is required, you tend to plan overtaking moves rather than just hit the loud pedal and fly.

It would (will?) be very cheap to build, probably using all the engine/box/suspension, just X19 calipers to provide the handbrake, and a double wishbone setup at the front.......


.... must finish the locost first!

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Originally posted by Piledhigher
Why not use a 3.5L vq35de (or older 3L, vq30de) nissan maxima. Very strong engine, 260 hp in 3.5L version.

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not very cheap, but i do like peugeots 3.0 v6 from the 406 range, seems to vary from car to car quite a lot, some have flat spots and some pull like a tart, but 197bhp in old form i believe. probably weighs a lot though...

Not much use to you in the US of A but over here you could use the Rover T16 engine and box out of a Rover 800 Vitesse / 600Ti / 200 turbo.

Cheap to buy, capable of 220 bhp with minimal cost or modification, and 250bhp plus with a bit of money. Might even have one for sale soon

The Nissan Maxima came with a 5 speed. You should be able to get a complete engine/tranny combo for $1.5K. Not locost, but a great combo.

Cory

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Then there's the Suzuki Swift... But I think the hi-po version uses a 4age... hehe good engine.

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Mitsubishi 3.0 liter? Plenty of these laying around! Admittedly not one of the greats, but any port in a storm...

Steve,

I like Kurt B's choice of the Honda VTEC drivetrain. In a mid-engined layout the reverse rotation is a non-issue. You could have a chassis designed by 'top Eastern European engineer" and suspension poking through the hood and 1.5" of suspension travel and....ow, owww, stop hitting me. OK, maybe the Attack is a bad example

The Subaru motor's are nice (particularly the low CofG) but the packaging is all wrong length and width wise for me and, as you say, the AWD needs to be disabled.

The new Toyota ZZ motors are all alloy and quite light for their power. The 2ZZ-GE as used in the current Celica and Corolla Sportivo would be my choice if I was starting from scratch right now. Still pricey but dropping all the time. I was quoted AU$4,500 6 months ago for a 2002 Celica front clip, complete with engine, 6-speed box, suspension, instruments etc. Some hunting at the insurance auctions might turn one up for a little less. This, of course, is also the drivetrain of the current MR-Spyder and, now, the Lotus Elise.

The 2.3 litre four in our Mazda 6 has bags of torque and a wonderful, throaty induction/exhaust note when pushed. Transplanting it into a middy would mean I could fix the gear change by stiffening the cross gate action too. Might stop me getting 1st when I'm trying for 2nd to 3rd in a hurry!

Going bigger, Toyota has a few nice V6's but, if I wanted to 'up-size' my happy meal I'd look at the Mitsubishi Magna (Diamante in the rest of the world I think). Four cam 3500 V6, available with a nice 5-speed or TipTronic style 4-speed auto. Very common car here so could be relatively inexpensive although I've never actually priced one as a donor.

Hope this provides some food for thought anyway. With at least 70% (at a guess) of cars sold now being FWD there's an almost endless variety of potential donors.

Dominic

I am fond of the 4agze, swapped a jspec one into a FWD corolla this last summer, was definatly fun < check out pics of the swap and some burn out video's>

I'm more partial to german motors myself, 2.0l 16v VW engine would be my choice.

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Originally posted by sgraberWhy not use a 3.5L vq35de (or older 3L, vq30de) nissan maxima. Very strong engine, 260 hp in 3.5L version.

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I am the proud owner of a gorgeous 3 litre Alfa Romeo V6 engine complete with manual box, driveshafts, all ancilliaries and electrics, suspension, struts, brakes, hubs and the subframe to mount it.

All aluminium, 192bhp standard and up to 230 for later 24v Cloverleaf versions. Nicely tunable too. Best part? It says 'Olio' on the oil filler cap - can't beat italian exotica.

Cost me £200.

Next best option is of course the 2.7 Honda V6 from the Rover 827's. Almost perfect and almost free.

Liam

not all the audi's are expensive, you can get a full 20v straight 5 coupe for about £400 to £1000 depending on condition, so an engine by its self cant be expensive. this engine does 172bhp in standard tune, and its only a 2.3 so- hammer on some bigger injectors, tune the computer, pus all the normal stuff like port the heads, lighten fly wheel and all that, possibly stick on a turbo and intercooler and you should end up with plenty of power. (the 2.2 liter one they put in the quattros does 220bhp in standard tune with a kkk turbo)