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cortina calipers....really???
boggle - 7/3/10 at 02:44 PM

hi all...

am getting into my brake part of the build and im now looking at calipers...

i have standard cortina front calipers, one is looking naff the other ok....i have found that rally design do a recon pair for around 80squids.....

however....

are they going to be up to the job, bearing in mind i want to try a few hill climbs, or should i go with willwood 4 pots???

also......

i have a mk2 escort rear axle with drums....

would people stick with these or can i adapt the axle to take discs and calipers???

thanks in advance peoples..

barry

BenB - 7/3/10 at 02:49 PM

I'd personally saw it's more to do with pads than it is with calipers. Princess 4-pot upgrades are all well and good (ditto Wilwood) but is it totally necessary on a lightweight car like a Seven?!!?!

The main advantage in my eyes of Wilwoods is if they're ali (ie less unsprung weight). I've never had a problem stopping exceedingly rapidly with my bog standard calipers. The track day I did didn't involve much braking so no chance to see brake fade but I'm using cheap as chips pads so would expect some fade if I was using them hard for a long time...

boggle - 7/3/10 at 02:54 PM

iwas unsure if i did go with "better brakes" that i would be over braking the car.....

can you get uprated pads for the cortina calipers...???

ali f27 - 7/3/10 at 03:02 PM

hi i canged my princess 4pots to willwoods no better but saved a lot of weight changed rear drums for willwood is not as good as with drums and hand brake is now crap but again saved a lot of weight

BenB - 7/3/10 at 03:22 PM

quote:
Originally posted by boggle
iwas unsure if i did go with "better brakes" that i would be over braking the car.....

can you get uprated pads for the cortina calipers...???


http://www.redlineengines.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=28

amongst others

britishtrident - 7/3/10 at 03:22 PM

With hillclimbs the brakes won't even start to warm up, the first key to good braking on this type of car is to use the correct bore master cylinder ie. one intended for use without a servo,

phelpsa - 7/3/10 at 03:53 PM

You'll want to be using standard road pads on hillclimbs really otherwise you won't get any sort of bite.

M16 calipers will be plenty powerful enough for a seven unless you're running big power and very sticky tyres.

Chippy - 7/3/10 at 04:39 PM

Try Big Red for overhauled calipers, far better price than Rally Design. I would just service your standard brakes, and as said fit the correct master cylinder, they will be as good as any aftermarket set. HTH Ray

Edit to add, http://www.biggred.co.uk/contact.html

[Edited on 7-3-10 by Chippy]

boggle - 7/3/10 at 04:51 PM

the hillclimbing set up and this sort of car is all new terratory for me....

i spent the last two years off roading and previous to that it was drag racing....

i looked long and hard at the car over the weekend with my brother in law and we both agreed that certain things where not as good as they could be...really im not in a great rush to get it done, as i could do some marshalling at a few events to get to know the sport...

i just want to get some of the bits as near as right first time..i may change the engine next year to something more powerfull so i dont really want to have to upgrade the brakes......

i think that i will stick with rear drum setup for now.....if i was to go with these linkywould i be able to fit vented discs straight onto my hubs or do they need different hubs for vented discs??

also britishtrident, what i sthe best way to work out what bore you need??

thanks everyone for your input

barry

Chippy - 7/3/10 at 05:03 PM

I would suggest that before bunging "loadsa money" at fancy bits you try the standard set up first, you will be amazed just how good they are. Remember you are going to stop a car that "probably" weighs less than half what the brakes were designed to stop. Solid disc's are really up to the job. On the other hand if you are just building to look the part then fancy bits fit the bill, Cheers Ray

boggle - 7/3/10 at 05:08 PM

haha....its not going to be a halfords racer.....

i just didnt want to waste £80 on standard calipers if i should have bought something different...i see the brakes being the most important factor of my build so i dont want to scrimp and i want to get it right...

x_flow57 - 7/3/10 at 05:30 PM

The standard set up works extremely well providing (as has already been said) the correct master cylinders and pads are used, I can lock the front wheels at any speed but there is still loads of feel, ie the limiting factor is grip not braking forces.

These days there is no such thing as O/E pads and I find using Mintex 1144 gives good initial bite on the road and still no fade on track.

Vented discs are not recomended on such a light car, the brakes will not get up to opperating temp. In my opinion the only reason to change anything in this area is to reduce the unsprung weight and vented discs are heavier than std ones.

Hope that helps
Nick

Richard Quinn - 7/3/10 at 06:20 PM

The 750MC Locosts use standard calipers without any issues. That said, I've got Wilwoods on my Aries. I don't know whether they are much better but they look nicer! I would rather have good pads in standard calipers than cr*p pads in 4 pots.

britishtrident - 7/3/10 at 06:56 PM

quote:
Originally posted by boggle
haha....its not going to be a halfords racer.....

i just didnt want to waste £80 on standard calipers if i should have bought something different...i see the brakes being the most important factor of my build so i dont want to scrimp and i want to get it right...


Listen to what people are telling you don't confuse bling with performance. The Girling Cortina M16 caliper may be ugly and heavy but is effective because it has a lot of piston area and is stiff.

In the 70s Ford Europe used basically the same front brake setup on all cars right up to the Granada estate, which had a kerb weight three times that of a Locost only difference the V6 cars had vented discs.

The lightweight alloy multi-pot calipers around bring with them their own set of problems including lack of suitable high mu pad materials, long pedal due to the caliper body flexing, misalignment and bleeding problems.

Brakes on Locost style cars tend to lack "punch" for two reasons (1) because of space limitations the pedal leverage is less than half that of the donor Cortina/Sierra (2) The use of an adapted servo spec brake master cylinder results in a further increase in pedal pressure.

As a result of (1) & (2) although the vehicle weight is greatly reduced compared to the Cortina the required pedal pressure for a standard 0.9g stop increases two or three fold.

Tto improve the brakes.
(1) make sure everything is working as it should using good quality soft brake pads.
(2) Fit a smaller bore tandem mastercylinder (17mm or 19mm bore) to increase the hydraulic ratio and reduce pedal efffort.

Only after that think about fitting either 9" rear drums or rear discs.

[Edited on 7/3/10 by britishtrident]

boggle - 7/3/10 at 07:39 PM

thank you guys for all your input....

cortina calipers it is then....i think for saving weight i need to look at the biological side first (me).....

i have a brand new set of off the shelf pads that i will use for now, and then i will try the mintex later...

i was going down the route of using these
linky with a ballance bar, but if i went for a tandem cylinder would i need an inline restrictor for the back??

thanks

barry

Chippy - 7/3/10 at 11:06 PM

Although my brake set up is not the norm, (all ex 4X4 ABS), I have had to totaly remove the rear bias system due to the back brakes not working hard enough. I think that the general consensus is the same with the standard brakes usually fitted to Locost's, (of any type), so not really needed. Cheers Ray