Folks,

For the last (ahem) years i've been sitting on a tandem master cylinder that is used in westfields. Its supposed to give a very good brake balance. The problem is i want to identify what it was from so i can get a rebuild kit.

Here's what I know....
its stamped Girling 74660152 0 037.
Its got a P and S over the brake line exits.
The fluid resevoir has two roll pins holding it to the master cylinder.
Its got two enterences from the fluid resevoir to the master cylinder.
the mounting holes line up vertically instead of the escort horizontally.

So......can you help me? or at least get me a contact at girling so i can ask them.

Cheers.

Hi MikeR,

I can be your contact at Girling (it's called TRW these days).

Can you send me/post a photograph - the info you've given may not be enough.

In the meantime I'll use the part No you've given to track down some likely suspects

cheers, I'll take some pictures tonight!

Hi MikeR,

Does your TMC have a plastic ID band encircling the mcyl body? This should have an assy number.

FYI - My mcyl is also ex-Westie, with same casting no. (74660152). This is used on mcyl 74066210, which has a 17.8mm bore. However, there is another similar mcyl using the same casting, p/n 74066147.
So the ID tag is important.

Justin - Any way of finding out where these mcyls were originally used?

All,

I'm hoping the assembly drawing or parts list may contain some clues.

My old escort master cylinder has the plastic ring around it but this one doesn't!

The word "Damn" springs to mind. If you guys draw a blank I'm tempted to give Westfield a call, tell them i need a rebuild kit and see what they say i need to get.

Bit of hunting on the westfield list has provided this .....

Girling number on band: 6147 03 39 MJ
Girling number cast underneath: 74660152 Q58

and this ....

the part you need is a mk3 non-servo cortina master cylinder.

Can you confirm this to be correct? (i'll post pictures later as well)

I'll check it out MIke and post as soon as I know anything.

Right - update.

So far I have only found the two part Nos that Dick has i.e 74066210 and 74066147.

I cannot trace "Girling number on band: 6147 03 39 MJ" This number seems to have no relevance in our part No system.

Dick; do you know anymore than that??

MikeR;

First thing - does the brake fluid reservoir have an angled top (cylinder to be installed at an angle of 20 degrees) or a flat top (cylinder to be installed horizontally at 0 degrees). These two cylinders have some fundamental differences but are both 17.8mm diameter.

Angled Top Reservoir

The ports are marked 'P' and 'S' for Primary and Secondary. This relates to the brake circuit that each port should be connected to. The 'P' port has 38% of the cylinder stroke available and the 'S' port has 62% of the cylinder stroke available.

The 'S' port should be connected to the front circuit and the 'P' port should be connected to the rear circuit.

The variation in displacement is intended to accomodate the differing fluid requirements of calipers on the front axle and drumbrakes on the rear axle.

This cylinder may NOT have enough fluid displacement to drive calipers from both ports i.e it MUST be used with drumbrakes connected to the 'P' port for safetys sake.

Flat Top Reservoir

Both ports have 50% stroke available and will both displace the same amount of fluid. The ports are, to all intents and purposes, interchangeable between front and rear circuits.

If you can provide more detail I will look further - the photo's may still clinch the issue.

quote:

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Originally posted by JAG
Right - update. So far I have only found the two part Nos that Dick has, i.e 74066210 and 74066147.

I cannot trace "Girling number on band: 6147 03 39 MJ" This number seems to have no relevance in our part No system.

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7406 6147

folks,

really really poor quality images in my photo archive. Basically the plastic brake fluid reseviour appears to be level.

(The photo implies its not due to the rubber mounting being a little out OR because it slopes from the bolt ends upwards towards the other end - meaning the master cyclinder is mounted pointing towards the floor at a shallow angle!)

So guessing i've got the 50/50 split means i really do have to get a rear brake balance limiter with my 9" rear drums (

MikeR;

The 50/50 split is purely to manage the fluid displacement - the output pressure from each port will be EXACTLY the same.

If you choose your brakes carefully (piston size and effective radius) then you should be able to get away without a limiter in the rear circuit.

I have a 50/50 split master cylinder on my Stuart Taylor car with the M16 (54mm piston) calipers on the Cortina upright and 8" diameter drumbrakes (with 22.2 cylinder) on the Escort axle.

9" drumbrakes should work fine with a smaller cylinder diameter (the cylinder inside the drumbrake) - do you know what size it is??

I have done the necessary system calc's and am confident of a good system with no rear axle brake bias - but with good output from the rear brakes.

There are some pictures of my master cylinder and SERVO in my photo archive.

[Edited on 5/11/04 by JAG]

[Edited on 5/11/04 by JAG]

Hi MikeR & JAG,

Checked my mcyl this morning. It clearly is same as yours. Mike, with p/n 740666147.
Note it has the vertical mounting flange. Most, if not all, of the Mk1/2 Fiesta mcyls have a horizintally-disposed flange. You'll have to check your mounting area for sufficient space.

Here's the pic, for comparison :-
Rescued attachment WMcyl1.jpg

Thats the puppy!

Mines mounting onto a westfield peddle box so fits quite nicely.

Don't suppose you've got some more pics of your brake lines have you? Going to be doing that job soon.

Also, it seems you've fitted a joining peice in the background, why is this? I was thinking of fitting one to isolate the master cylinder - but not sure if i should.

MikeR,

That "joining piece" is a PCRV (pressure conscious reducing valve). Its a device which restricts the rate of pressure rise to the rear brakes, relative to front brake pressure rise.

Older Astras, and Fiesta Mk3's had similar valves fitted into their mcly outlet ports.

[Edited on 7/11/04 by Dick Axtell]

hmmm, where can you get a new one from? I've looked up www.brakesint.com and they only do them with the master cylinder

Mike -

U got U2U.

can anyone confirm the fitting size for these master cylinders? m10x1 or 3/8?

Thanks
Mike

Hi Mikey. Majority of Euro mcyl ports are standardised on M10x1.

Some of the older, aluminium CV-type. single mcyls, (e.g. such as those used with balance bar set-up), can be 3/8 UNF threaded.

Some Eastern bloc countries, e.g. Russia, standardised on M10 x 1.25 threaded ports. (Ladas used this). Not sure if that's still the case these days.

quote:

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Originally posted by JAG
Right - update.

So far I have only found the two part Nos that Dick has i.e 74066210 and 74066147.

I cannot trace "Girling number on band: 6147 03 39 MJ" This number seems to have no relevance in our part No system.

Dick; do you know anymore than that??

MikeR;

First thing - does the brake fluid reservoir have an angled top (cylinder to be installed at an angle of 20 degrees) or a flat top (cylinder to be installed horizontally at 0 degrees). These two cylinders have some fundamental differences but are both 17.8mm diameter.

Angled Top Reservoir

The ports are marked 'P' and 'S' for Primary and Secondary. This relates to the brake circuit that each port should be connected to. The 'P' port has 38% of the cylinder stroke available and the 'S' port has 62% of the cylinder stroke available.

The 'S' port should be connected to the front circuit and the 'P' port should be connected to the rear circuit.

The variation in displacement is intended to accomodate the differing fluid requirements of calipers on the front axle and drumbrakes on the rear axle.

This cylinder may NOT have enough fluid displacement to drive calipers from both ports i.e it MUST be used with drumbrakes connected to the 'P' port for safetys sake.

Flat Top Reservoir

Both ports have 50% stroke available and will both displace the same amount of fluid. The ports are, to all intents and purposes, interchangeable between front and rear circuits.

If you can provide more detail I will look further - the photo's may still clinch the issue.

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This post has to take the record for thread revival?

quote:

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Originally posted by rusty nuts
This post has to take the record for thread revival?

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